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  1. #1
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    Default Oxytocin concentration in Liquid Trust??

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Does anyone know definitively of the concentration (either IU or mg/ml) of oxytocin in liquid

    trust??

    I wonder if they use synthetic (>95% purity) or enzymatically-producted oxytocin..

    Can someone shed

    some light on the subject please?

  2. #2
    Phero Pro WorkingMann's Avatar
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    I would say it cant be much

    if you look at the following

    link:
    http://www.prospec.co.il/~prospec/cart/customer/search.php?substring=oxyt&source=GoogleA

    d&agent_camp=8238001&agent_bann=8241001


    Our price: $ 50.00 /5 mg of Human Oxytin and with

    the price were giving it can't be high.. But as many other "pheroes" (I dont know if I can call oxytin a phero)

    small amounts is needed else it will cause terrible results like OD'in..

    And if you read further down:


    Lyophilized Oxytocin although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks, should be stored desiccated below -18 C.

    Upon reconstitution Oxytocin should be stored at 4 C between 2-7 days and for future use below -18 C. For long term

    storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein (0.1% HSA or BSA).


    Does this mean that our LT only

    lasts 3 weeks in room temperature? And if we wanna keep it more than 3 weeks it should be used after that it should

    be stored between 4 and -18 degree Celcius?

  3. #3
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    Wow.. thanks

    for that link! we had done some with with oxytocin and got it from Sigma-Aldrich for $138 / 5mg..

    RE: storage

    temp: this is the storage temp if it's stored as a powder. If it's dissolved in a solution (I.E. liquid trust)

    then this is no longer applicable.

    I still need to know of the concentration of oxytocin in LT.. anyone??

  4. #4
    Phero Dude
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    Read this interview with one of the

    dudes from vero labs , he states the concentration is a "trade secret"



    http://kuchinskas.typepad.com/hug_th...iew_with_.html
    early 40's white male or or

  5. #5
    Phero Dude
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    My guess is that the concentration is

    "homeopathic".

    In other words, almost no oxytocin at all.

  6. #6
    Phero Pro WorkingMann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid

    (HEC)
    Wow.. thanks for that link! we had done some with with oxytocin and got it from Sigma-Aldrich for $138 / 5mg..



    RE: storage temp: this is the storage temp if it's stored as a powder. If it's dissolved in a solution (I.E.

    liquid trust) then this is no longer applicable.

    I still need to know of the concentration of oxytocin in LT..

    anyone??
    But will the oxytin still "live/survive" room temperature after a month in this "heat"?

  7. #7
    Phero Dude slickracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid

    (HEC)
    Wow.. thanks for that link! we had done some with with oxytocin and got it from Sigma-Aldrich for $138 / 5mg..



    RE: storage temp: this is the storage temp if it's stored as a powder. If it's dissolved in a solution (I.E.

    liquid trust) then this is no longer applicable.

    I still need to know of the concentration of oxytocin in LT..

    anyone??
    wow thats really intresting! so do you think LT will last pretty long, if i just left it in my

    car for a while?

    oh and , what else are you brewing up right now? btw

  8. #8
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    oh and

    , what else are you brewing up right now? btw
    As many people report major success with certain

    combinations, the current school of thought is to fuse such combinations together into one convenient package..(I.e.

    AQ + LT)

    BTW slick... AQ is totally different from Chikara - different formula, different manufacturer,

    etc..

    **Does anyone know how to quantify the concentration of a peptide-complex?? *scratches head*

  9. #9
    Phero Dude slickracer's Avatar
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    if i may sugest something, do

    you think you can you can brew something up thats sorta like a combanation of AE + masters.

    its just a

    suggestion and it dosn't really matter if you make it or not as i do my own mixing with it. but i just like to say

    that, its a really good mix. i think thats just what im going to buy from now on, as i havn't found anything else

    thats better then this (i'll also buy NPA of course) and the last couple of things i brough hasn't really worked

    for me.

    here is the break down of the stuff i have tried.

    ae, masters, NPA= love them

    chikara = its

    alright makes me feel like a smart ass and i like to teach people stuff when i wear it

    KZI testing kit = fave

    one was the 5:1 as i got some decent results with it so i migh try that alpha 7 down the road.

    lucky 7 chem set

    = awsome as i can make anything with it, i ended up makeing my own ae (2:1.5:1) with a dash of other mones like A1

    and estra. but i had to order the real ae and other stuff as my lid for the nol broke because it was on too tight

    and now i got no more nol.

    wagg and soe= did what it was suppose to do, but their vibes and my personality

    didn't match that much.

    LT + TE = still messing around with it, i see some potential but still havn't found

    the right dose.

  10. #10
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    NOTE THAT

    i'VE STARTED A NEW THREAD FOR NEW PRODUCT SUGGESTIONS.. Please post all suggestions in this thread!

  11. #11
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    Slick: do you

    think that you or others would be interested in some free reagent-grade-solution mones, to facilitate any

    development of new formulas to which you could report? (I.e. 25ml of nol Vs. 5ml chem-set?) - this would probably

    require a NDA...

    EDIT: So, in a nutshell those who qualify could be sent a free "development-kit,"

    directly from love-scent with Bruce's approval..

    This would include:

    - NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT

    -

    25ml of each of the mones
    - 50ml of SDA40B ethanol
    - 100ml of propylene glycol
    - Test tubes / Vials
    - Mixing

    bottles
    - Pipettes / extraction bulbs
    - Designer cologne oils
    - Small notepad to record results

    P.S. This

    isn't stamped and approved yet.. Awaiting Bruce's authorization

    P.S.S. It might even be structured

    so that a small deposit might be paid to love-scent initially, which could be refunded upon return-receipt of the

    notepad..
    Last edited by Archetypical Hybrid (HEC); 01-10-2007 at 11:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Phero Dude slickracer's Avatar
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    sure, i would love to help,

    and i have alot of experiance working with mones now.

    if you want to send me the contract after i give you my

    email (which will be around friday as i got to go througe my old acount still) i'll look over that stuff and see

    where it goes from there.


    edit* oh yeah, also, if you can sum up how to use the ethonal and mones in like a

    little paragraph it would be great (use examples if you can cause i can comprehand things better with examples) as

    to tell you the truth, i dont have any experiance doing that.

  13. #13
    Phero Pro WorkingMann's Avatar
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    hey HEC you didn't

    answer
    But will the oxytin still "live/survive" room temperature after a month in this "heat"?

    This is

    because I don't want to ny LT goes to waste.. Im here talking about my LT where its liquid..

  14. #14
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    To be totally

    honest I believe the effect of liquid trust is due to the placebo effect.. Oxytocin has really only been shown to be

    active when it is directly inhaled nasally as a spray (and is a prescription only drug when used as such).. It's a

    very large, conglomerate molecule and so it would be very difficult to get it into the air as a vapor..

    Does it

    actually work as marketed? I find it hard to believe.

    But as far as stability: Yes, high temps should be

    avoided, as the protiens in peptide-complexes (I.e. oxytocin) often denature at higher temperatures..

    I should think that Vero Labs would have incorporated some sort of preservative to hinder this, but it seems not...

    So in a nutshell avoid high temperatures and direct sunlight exposure.

    de·na·ture

    (dē-nā'chər)


    tr.v., -tured, -tur·ing,

    -tures.
    1. Biochemistry.
      1. To cause the tertiary structure of (a protein) to unfold, as

        with heat, alkali, or acid, so that some of its original properties, especially its biological activity, are

        diminished or eliminated.


    To preserve maximum stability, I would recommend storage in a household

    freezer (the formula contains alcohol, so it won't freeze to ice). Don't leave it in your car's glovebox for very

    long and expect it to still be active (if it even is at all from the get-go).

  15. #15
    Phero Dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid

    (HEC)
    But as far as stability: Yes, high temps should be avoided, as the protiens in peptide-complexes (I.e.

    oxytocin) often denature at higher temperatures..

    ...

    To cause the tertiary structure

    of (a protein) to unfold...
    Oxytocin is not a protein. It is a peptide made of only 9 amino acids.



    It has no tertiary structure.

  16. #16
    Phero Pro WorkingMann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvs
    Oxytocin is not a

    protein. It is a peptide made of only 9 amino acids.

    It has no tertiary structure.
    I think HEC meant

    the proteins in the peptide..

    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)
    But as far as stability: Yes, high temps should

    be avoided, as the protiens in peptide-complexes (I.e. oxytocin) often denature at

    higher temperatures..

  17. #17
    Full Member Mungojerry's Avatar
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    ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
    Last edited by Mungojerry; 10-05-2015 at 07:47 AM.

  18. #18
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungojerry
    There are no

    proteins in peptides.

    Essentially, peptides are short molecules formed by linkage of amino acids. Protiens

    are long molecules formed by linkage of amino acids.

    Hence you don't have proteins in

    peptides.
    Gentlemen,
    Having been acused on several occassions of getting "too technical," I

    suspect we may be pressing the upper limits of technicalities here, but also wanted to add:

    From Wikpedia:

    (because even I had to check my assumptions)
    "a peptide is an amino acid molecule without secondary structure; on

    gaining defined structure, it is a protein." Thus the same molecule can be either a peptide or a protein depending

    on its environment, though there are peptides that cannot be

    proteins."

    JVK

  19. #19
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Either get digested in the human

    gut. That allows us to enjoy a big steak but means we can't take oxytocin orally.

  20. #20
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitehall
    Either get

    digested in the human gut. That allows us to enjoy a big steak but means we can't take oxytocin orally.


    Thus, the intranasal route, which takes us back to the question of concentration of oxytocin in the product. If

    the product was developed in accord with human studies, shouldn't the concentration be obvious--whatever

    concentration was used in the human studies, for example?



    JVK
    Last edited by belgareth; 01-11-2007 at 08:24 PM.

  21. #21
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    this product has done jack for

    me, as hec mentioned, i believe the only benefit is a placebo effect

    great atomizer though

    my buddy

    left his full bottle of Liquid Trust in his car on a hot day, lid tightly closed yet the whole contents evaporated,

    the stuff is as close to full alcohol as i can imagine, i have issues with NPA and evaporation, but this LT is

    ridicules

    jv, the marketing and packaging of LT is very well thought out, i agree, very slick...

  22. #22
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    I guess the

    million-dollar question here is: would you consumers like to see oxytocin added to products such as our , or

    by JVK with his SOE?

    Vote please! Yay or Nay.. Include supporting comments if possible..

  23. #23
    Phero Pro WorkingMann's Avatar
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    I would say no..!
    If I want

    the LT, I'll buy on the side and add it myself.. Then I can get my right ratio also..
    But I'm also not sure if it

    works as I want and then if LT is added to other products these would be more expencive and I wouldn't wanna pay

    more for that..
    Also because some people may not want the LT mixed with their SOE, and if you want that you can

    just buy the LT and mix yourself..
    And if the results is LT should be mixed then I would say if we can't have the

    "old" products and the "new"..
    Hereby I mean:
    "old" : SOE
    "new" : SOE + LT
    Because then we can those ourselfes

    what we want..
    Also because many people are having lots of succes with the products as they are now so we have to

    keep them also even if it's decided that LT should be mixed with other products..

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    From Wikpedia: (because

    even I had to check my assumptions)
    "a peptide is an amino acid molecule without secondary structure; on gaining

    defined structure, it is a protein." Thus the same molecule can be either a peptide or a protein depending on its

    environment, though there are peptides that cannot be

    proteins."

    JVK
    Don't trust Wikipedia too much. What we're

    talking about here are polypeptides, not peptides. A peptide is a single amino acid residue (the amino acid as it is

    once it's part of a chain), and a polypetide is two or more amino acids linked together.

    Oxytocin is a

    9-unit polypeptide.

    All proteins are polypeptides, but the primary distinguishing factor between

    polypeptides and proteins is whether they have tertiary structure, and this is determined mainly by the number of

    peptides. The smallest human proteins which have been identified are about 45 peptides in length.

    Proteins

    have three structures:

    - primary, which is the sequence of peptides (amino acids) in the chain.
    -

    secondary, which is the linkage between peptides in one part of the chain with peptides in the other part of the

    chain (usually through the same hydrogen bonds that keep water liquid at room temperature).
    - tertiary, which is

    the complete structure of a protein, including all the folding (beta sheets, alpha helixes, etc.)

    Oxytocin is

    only 9 units long. This is too short to have ANY tertiary structure. So oxytocin is NOT a protein.

    But it

    does have a secondary structure, as can be seen in this paper:

    secondary structure of part of

    oxytocin
    . The dotted lines are hydrogen bonds.

  25. #25
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvs
    Don't trust Wikipedia

    too much. What we're talking about here are polypeptides, not peptides. A peptide is a single amino acid residue

    (the amino acid as it is once it's part of a chain), and a polypetide is two or more amino acids linked together.



    Oxytocin is a 9-unit polypeptide.
    xvs,
    Someday soon we should speak on the phone. I know

    that Wikipedia is not the ultimate source, but it's a reasonably good source for info that's easier to understand

    than most--especially textbooks.

    My primary interest is in the decapeptide hormone: gonadotropin releasing

    hormone, which oddly enough has a 9-unit version of its mammalian counterpart in yeast, which is non other that the

    alpha mating pheromone of "brewer's" yeast. I think that hormones are considered proteins, but could be wrong--and

    also that their receptors are proteins, but could be wrong. We may just be running into definitions that don't help

    researchers communicate well across different disciplines. Also, a fraction of the GnRH decapeptide appears to

    function directly as a neurotransmitter: a hormone? a protein?

    JVK

  26. #26
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    Very little response from LT

    if any.

    Maybe one "trancy" session but get a similar feeling with light spanking (so endorphin flow

    feeling).

    Will be trying other new stuff and probably not reorder LT.

    SOE seems to create enough trust.

  27. #27
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    JVK: I'm

    curious.. What is the purity (assay) of the alpha-androstenol you use in SOE?? (>98%)??

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