Evidence for the human VNO is highly questionable

[belgareth]

I never

expected DrSmellThis to consider the required biological basis/pathway for his product claims, he was too much the

psychologist. JVK

I really don't believe DST

was so much trying to market as he disagreed with you before he ever even considered making a scent. As you note, he

is a psychologist and his belief that attraction is primarily environmental instead of chemical was the core of his

disagreement with you.

[jvkohl]

I really don't

believe DST was so much trying to market as he disagreed with you before he ever even considered making a

scent.

That's possible. Sometimes, motives aren't clear even after-the-fact.

As you note, he is a psychologist and his belief that attraction is primarily environmental

instead of chemical was the core of his disagreement with you.

What I remember most was he

consistently tried to tell everyone that "it's much more complicated than that" --with "that" being whatever I

said. He was right about it being more complicated than what I could explain in this Forum, but he never offered any

scientific support for his "primarily environmental" approach. Accordingly, there was no basis for scientific debate

with him, and so-far-as-I'm concerned, no scientific basis for his product development and marketing.

There

is a basis for scientific debate with HEC, namely the human VNO issue. Unlike DST's "it's more complicated than

that" approach, HEC just tells me I'm wrong while offering no scientific support for his "primarily VNO" approach.

Whether or not Forum members are interested in the science, the difference in approaches to discussion should be

clear indicators whether they are looking at a marketing attempt or the science behind the concept of human

pheromones.

JVK

[belgareth]

You'll notice that I am not

discussing the merit or logic of his position, only observing that this seemed to be the core of his position.

I

never had the impression that there was any real science to his Pheros product, that it was primarily a scent and a

rather pleasnt one. But, other than so called analog pheromones I do not recall that he made any real claims about

the potential for attraction. I never saw your product and his as competing in any manner.

[bronzie]

I dont want to offend anyone and

I respect all of the members, including JV and even the HEC guy, but this whole VNO debate is becoming tedious and a

little tiresome, and seems like everyone is trying to discredit everyone, for one reason or another. These debates

dont seem constructive and dont lead anywhere. And it's not just me who thinks this way, a few of my friends have

stoped logging into the forum because of the bickering. This is supposed to be a fun place first and foremost.

[belgareth]

That's the whole point of what

I am getting at here. There is no point in putting down or attempting to discredit other people. Debate and disagree

all you want but stop making insulting or offensive remarks about one another, Stop making remarks about any current

or former user unless you can prove it and it is relevent to the debate.

[ratspeaker]

Bronzie, from your comments

and those of other members I see that this board is still in the state it descended to many years ago when I to

ceased to log in, and in fact stopped any use/ investigation of pheromones. I note with distain that any scientific

debate sems to offend what has become the majority of board members. It would seem that it is considered by a lot

of posters that pheromones should be treated like a fashion accessory. An expression of affluence and that people

like myself and JVK seem to be considered in the same light as OAP's gatecrashing a frat party. I'm sorry that

you feel that pheromones and this board should be treated as a bit of light fun. Without science of course we

can't prove one iota that what we purchase is any thing other than snake oil. That doesn't matter if it's a

fashion accessory I'm purchasing; but, If I wan't to actually treat pheromones and the science behind them as a

serious subject and discuss that with others of like mind, surely that should be welcomed on this board. The

trouble Bronzie is I don't feel welcome in the way I used to be many years ago. I still get the same feeling as

when I left. That this board has become nothing more than a marketing tool for Love Scent. Which is a pity, since

it used to be so much more. I don't want to offend anyone either but with no room on this board for anything other

than idle chit chat and talking up the products, I don't think I will be hanging around long.

[bronzie]

I agree, let's start the new

year on a happy note, it's only a few days away. Everyone should kiss and make up.

and like Dr.Spock from

star trek says, live long and prosper!

[bronzie]

ratspeaker, you have totally

missed the point, healthy and constructive debate is great, what I have seen lately is bickering for bickering sake

with no substance of information.

By the way, If you havnt noticed this forum is part of the love-scent

company, you dont have to be a noble prize winner to understand it's a marketing tool and extension for love scent

products and it's employees, this should not be a revelation to anyone.

[belgareth]

The intent is not as a

marketing tool. The intent of this forum is open discussion of both the science and the use of pheromone products.

Nobody at Love Scent wants the scientifically minded or the casual user to feel unwelcome. We want everybody to feel

like they can discuss topics without the BS so common in other forums, like flaming and ridicule.

[Mungojerry]

Although this board probably

does provide Bruce with a lot of legitimacy, it only does so because people always have been able to, and still are

able to, post the results they get with products whatever those results may be.

My own recent evaluations of

Liquid Trust and HEC's new juice, where I have been able to openly state that nothing has happened, stand as

testament to that.

I've been on this board, on and off, for over four years now. In my view the quality of the

science debate hasn't noticeably depreciated over this time.

[belgareth]

I have closed this thread.