Pherlure

[catlord17]

So Tyler, does Pherlure affect

your mood any?

I suggest you do an experiment in which you spray yourself on the face with a spray of it and

see if it makes you feel any different. I have also noticed that women seem to be able to tell where I have applied

it, and they will apply attention to that spot. If they're inebriated in any way, I get a lot more kiss hits than

usual wherever I have applied it. So putting it on your face may get you increased eye contact and kisses on the

lips, cheeks, nose, or forehead, depending on how you apply it and the women you are using it with.

I apply

it to my face once in a while for the mood altering effect, and the interest it seems to bring to my face

specifically. Eye contact is a good thing. :-)

[Chemist]

I've been with love-scent from the

very beginning. I don't post all that often, but this thread kind of demands my opinion. I am very intrigued by the

web description of this new product.

However, as someone did before in this thread, I immediately did a

literature search - in thousands of journals - to find no mention of Di-Dehydroepiandrosterone at all.

This

tells me that the studies linked to from the site are not good enough for publication and leads me to disbelieve the

evidence on the product.

Like others, anectdotal evidence means more from people who have been around for

years and in this forum. I tend to disbelieve those that seem to have just joined in the past 2 months - especially

if they are saying ridiculous things about any product.

Most of us have been here from the beginning and our

experience tells us that outrageous statements that seem to imply that pheromones all of sudden short circuit the

brain are to be taken with a grain of salt. We all know that personality, approach, game, and cleanliness have a lot

to do with it too. No pheromone can circumvent those factors.

[TylerOC]

Im not making an rediculous

claims about this product, i have JUST now begun testing but to be honest i havnt really noticed any hits from any

products i have. ive tried 1-3 dabs of npa, ive used SOE, and now im trying pherlure. so far pherlure for some

reason seems to put me in a happier more hyper mood but that might just be because i like how it smells.

[bjf]

I've been with

love-scent from the very beginning. I don't post all that often, but this thread kind of demands my opinion. I am

very intrigued by the web description of this new product.

However, as someone did before in this thread, I

immediately did a literature search - in thousands of journals - to find no mention of Di-Dehydroepiandrosterone at

all.

This tells me that the studies linked to from the site are not good enough for publication and leads me

to disbelieve the evidence on the product.

Like others, anectdotal evidence means more from people who have

been around for years and in this forum. I tend to disbelieve those that seem to have just joined in the past 2

months - especially if they are saying ridiculous things about any product.

Most of us have been here from

the beginning and our experience tells us that outrageous statements that seem to imply that pheromones all of

sudden short circuit the brain are to be taken with a grain of salt. We all know that personality, approach, game,

and cleanliness have a lot to do with it too. No pheromone can circumvent those factors.

Dude, do

you know how many people miss you?

[Chemist]

Hey, I'm still around. I just

don't post as I used to as I did in the beginning. I've kept abreast of all the products - Chikira and Perception

were the last 2 "new" products I tried - while still using APC, TE, SOE, and NPA. Pheromones were a start for me,

the next thing I worked on was my game. Both of them together - work wonderfully.

I do check back every now

and again, order one or two new products every year, get my samples and intro specials. If you ever need my opinion

on something, a PM will work.

I'm very impressed with the way Bruce's business has expanded over the

years.

[b737pilot88]

I just got my pherlure

bottle yesterday and going to test it. The smell was pleasant and it smelled good to me.

1/10/06
Today I have

tested my Pherlure bottle with one spray to the throat and one spray of my cologne on the wrist. I went to school

and throughout the day, I havn't notice any eye contact, hits, or compliments. I mean wth man.... or is it

that there are too many students walking in the hall way that prevented the -mones? I will continue my testing this

week to see if theres any results.
The scent was gone quickly in about 2 hrs and my coloogne an hr. later because

it was on my skin.

I know trying it on the first day won't give you any results but I have heard from some

people that it works on their first day and some a few days later (True?) Some people also said you need to

wear for a few days because of the body chemistry.

But i do have a question about this though; since

it is my first day testing it, do I have to keep applying it everyday until it kicks in? (Help!)



Anyways I will continue to post my results and see what happens.

[jvkohl]

I find it amazing that this thread

continues to get as much attention as it does. I'm no fan of censorship, but the longer this thread continues, the

more damage is done to the biologically based concept of human pheromones--as it is represented in other threads --

and by research, as well as research-based marketing and anecdotal information. I would be happy to take full

responsibility for any moderator who wants to pull this thread in its entirety -- and direct complaints about

censorship to me via private messages.

JVK

... as

someone did before in this thread, I immediately did a literature search - in thousands of journals - to find no

mention of Di-Dehydroepiandrosterone at all.

This tells me that the studies linked to from the site are not

good enough for publication and leads me to disbelieve the evidence on the product.

Like others, anectdotal

evidence means more from people who have been around for years and in this forum. I tend to disbelieve those that

seem to have just joined in the past 2 months - especially if they are saying ridiculous things about any

product.

[belgareth]

I'm not going to pull this

thread. Let the discussion run its course.

[b737pilot88]

But i do have a

question about this though; since it is my first day testing it, do I have to keep applying it everyday until it

kicks in? (Help!)

[Chemist]

jvk, I'm just waiting for a

veteran with some anectdotal evidence on this product. So far, I've seen none. My thoughts at this point are not to

even try out this product and to stick with what I have.

[TylerOC]

i only tried it so far because i

havnt seen any of the veterans come and say "look, i actually tried this, did extensive testing with it, and saw

absolutely no results". so far all anybody says is "oh look at the advertising, it cant be real" from what i can

tell

[Bruce]

Coincidentally I got into a long

conversation with a serious steroid chemist this morning and at one point out of the clear blue sky Pherlure came

up. If I tell you what he said, you wouldn't believe me, so I asked him to post the info himself. Hopefully,

we'll hear from him soon. Me, all I know is they are major spammers.

B

[jvkohl]

jvk, I'm just

waiting for a veteran with some anectdotal evidence on this product. So far, I've seen none. My thoughts at this

point are not to even try out this product and to stick with what I have.

Even if a veteran reported

positive anecdotal evidence, I would be quick to attribute the anecdote to the power of suggestion, which is what

the marketing approach hopes people will buy-in-to. They're marketing an unknown compound (as if people should

know about it) and link to study results that either can't be found, or are reports from studies on other compounds

that are known (or at least suspected to be) pheromonally active. Why would a veteran try

it?

JVK

[jvkohl]

i only tried it so

far because i havnt seen any of the veterans come and say "look, i actually tried this, did extensive testing with

it, and saw absolutely no results". so far all anybody says is "oh look at the advertising, it cant be real" from

what i can tell

"Look at the advertising; it can't be real" is a valid approach. Especially when

there is nothing in the advertising that links the product to anyone or anything that might have some substance to

back up their sales approach. "Let the buyer beware" is the primary caution when any question about marketing

tactics comes up. You just indicated that you expect people to ignore a primary

caution.

JVK

[b737pilot88]

Ya...If i dont see results

in 2 weeks, ill be sending this s*it back and all I can think of is trying the stuff on love-scent's store since

everyone is honest here about the products their using.


Hey B,
Whens that chemist u talked about going to

post, It would be very interesting to see what he says about Pherlure.

[tounge]

FWIW, I suspect Pherlure is

probably crap. I've never used it and don't intend to. But as long as nobody is pushing it on this site to sell,

what is the harm to discuss it. Frankly, it bothers me more, that someone would want to censor the discussion. And

if Pherlure or any product does not do what it says it will do, it will be exposed here quickly enough.

[TylerOC]

FWIW, I suspect

Pherlure is probably crap. I've never used it and don't intend to. But as long as nobody is pushing it on this

site to sell, what is the harm to discuss it. Frankly, it bothers me more, that someone would want to censor the

discussion. And if Pherlure or any product does not do what it says it will do, it will be exposed here quickly

enough.

for once, i agree completely with you tounge. i do think that it most likely sucks, but with a

money back gauruntee i decided to try it out for myself anyways. at the last, ill let you all know it didnt do shit

for me and that i returned it, or whatever happens

[catlord17]

As I have said before, there

are two schools of thought regarding this product. Those who think there's something to it, and those who don't.

I happen to have seen people who didn't know I was wearing anything respond to pherlure in ways I have not seen as

often with other pheromone type sprays (so worded since Pherlure does not seem to have pheromones in it). If you

discount my experiences as being gullible, or being suggestible or being whatever, then that's fine. I respect

your opinion. I can handle your disagreement. But that's all it is - an opinion. Just as my conclusion that it

works is opinion, based however much on actual experiences that you all may lack, as compared to you guys just

guessing based on somene's marketing BS.

That said, I am growing increasingly skeptical about what's actually

in this product, but I have seen results from people who didn't know anything out of the ordinary was going on, and

no amount of other people's skepticism is going to change the facts regarding those experiences. And to

respectfully disagree, JVK, I would have to say that "Look at the advertising, it can't be real" is only a valid

approach if you have already made up your mind about something. By the same logic, the world is flat and the sun

revolves around the Earth.

To those who are new with pherlure, the most common results I get are an increased

acceptance from others and more positive responses to my ideas. Lots more respect. You need to give people a

chance to be affected by the pheromone (or whatever it is) in pherlure, just as you would with any other product.

It's not an instant result, as far as I can tell, and just passing people hasn't done much of anything for me with

any phero or related type of product. But I continueto see results wth Pherlure, the exactsame as are described

frequently on this frum fromother people regarding other products, even when I wear Pherlure alone and don't tell

anyone.

By the way, in my experience, Pherlure has to be applied about every three hours to remain

effective.

As for the steroid chemist Bruce is talking about, I am looking forward to what he has to say, because

I'm really wondering how I could have had some of these experiences if this is all in my head. Especially since

it's my business to know about the power of suggestion.

It's a shame they chose to market their product the way

they have, because I think it would make a really good addition to both Bruce's and my own products, but I agree

that their tactics would not be welcome to my customers and I'm not going to sell it therefore. Regardess, I am

going to use it, and continue using it, because of all the products I have tried, pherlure seems to get me the best,

most obvious and most frequent hits.

Naturally, I have not lost sight of the fact that I am still far from

experienced with all the products I have, or that are available, but these have been my experiences so far. Show me

something better and I'll use it instead.

One thing I have noticed is that there seem to be two extremes of

thinking when it comes to "believing" something. There are those who will believe without any evidence, and there

are those who will not believe regardless of evidence. The former tends to be religious types, and the latter tends

to be scientific types. I have both in my family, and I have come to have a middle of the road approach as a

result. I keep an open mind, and go with what evidence I have available. In other words, I don't look at the

packaging and decide that just because it is a cheap cardboard box, that it's impossible for a real diamond to be

placed inside. On the other hand, I'm not locked into any particular conclusion, either. If the evidence starts

to suggest something else, then my conclusion reflects that.

So skeptics and believers both, think what you will.

I'll just go with what I can see happening, unless someone happens to have some evidence against it other than

"The advertising is ridiculous".

And now for a hit report. Cologne:TE:Pherlure at 1:1:1 seems to do really

really well for respect hits. I met a friend of a friend today, and she was reported to be very aggressive and

dominating before I met her, but she turned out to be more on the submissive side around me, which got the friend

who introduced us picking her jaw up off the floor. I wasn't really trying to be terribly dominant, and the girl

"doesn't like white guys", and is engaged, so I wasn't expecting sexual hits. But it was amazing the respect I was

getting from her when I had been expecting her to try to steamroll me. I seem to be getting much more respect with

this formula than just Pherlure by itself. Also got my first hits from TE alone last night. Had a woman tell me,

"Oh my,all sorts of interesting things seem to be happening when I'm around you," and she was referring to her

bodily responses.

[haszu]

I have asked

one chemist about Di-DHEA and he has told me that as far as he knows Pherlure was actually

only using Dehydroepiandrosterone, and were simply tagging on the di- prefix to throw

off consumers. Di-Dehydroepiandrosterone is not a valid chemical name, and it is not listed in the merk

index, nor can a chemical structure be obtained from it. The ‘di' prefix should be alpha-numeric, so as to specify

exactly where the two DHEA molecules are attached.
If this really is di-DHEA, Pherlure must have had a custom

synthesis performed.

You say here that DHEA is not a pheromone, but it has been shown to equally

target both the male and female human VNO, causing a stimulation of 1mV, as demonstrated via electrovomeronasogram.

This was in a study which erox
had funded some 10-15 years ago.
e.g.

http://www.erox.com/images/Steroid1.GIF

I also received an information that Androstenol,

as this is actually an
optical isomer of DHEA. Basically, it's a ‘mirror image' of the DHEA
molecule when viewed

three-dimensionally. Mr Kohl, could you please confirm this?

Regards,
Artur

[catlord17]

As I said in my previous post,

I was growing suspicious as to what was actually in Pherlure, since "Di-DHEA" produces nothing much to look at in

searches... and all you skeptics are insisting it can't work, while I see it working. The only thing I could see

that could explain the discrepancy was they were not being honest about what's actually in it.

Now if that graph

is right, estratetraenol must really give guys a buzz! Isn'tthat the female pheromone that acts like A1 does for

women?

[haszu]

Yes, Estratetraenol is the most

effective pheromone that stimulates male VNO and Androstadienone stimulates female VNO most effectively.

Estratetraenol is even more powerful than A-1.

[b737pilot88]

Today is my second day

testing pherlure.
The first day I test it with one spray pherlure and 1 spray cologne, nothing happens. The 2nd day

with the same spray, I was talking to my friend(hotty ) while we were doing our physics lab, she came very close

to me and started to get touchy while I was talking to her about the lab. I'm like hmm the -mones must be working.



For my experiences so far, I have notice when it happens if you speak to someone at a close proximity and

let them stay with you for a couple of minutes. Also, I think the -mones aren't kicking for first day use but on

the 2nd day, I got results.

Anyways, I'll post more results soon.

[catlord17]

Today is my

second day testing pherlure.
The first day I test it with one spray pherlure and 1 spray cologne, nothing happens.

The 2nd day with the same spray, I was talking to my friend(hotty ) while we were doing our physics lab, she came

very close to me and started to get touchy while I was talking to her about the lab. I'm like hmm the -mones must

be working.

For my experiences so far, I have notice when it happens if you speak to someone at a close

proximity and let them stay with you for a couple of minutes. Also, I think the -mones aren't kicking for first day

use but on the 2nd day, I got results.

Anyways, I'll post more results soon.

Try tesing each dose

for a week at a time... 1 spray for one week, two sprays for one week, and then see what happens with nothing for

one week. According to the Pherlure guys, one spray is best for women under about 30. Since I am attending college

where most of the hotties are under 30, I use one spray at a time.

I'm sitting here in the library and I just

had a hit from one of the clerks at the returns desk. She was at first actively ignoring me when I went up for

help. Someone else helped me. I had just applied one spray of Pherlure before I walked to the desk, and after

discussing the book in question with another clerk, I turned to walk away and this girl gives me a bright, radiant

smile and just a little too cheerily says, "Bye!" It was so out of character for what I had seen when she was

dealing with the guy next to me. It was like we'd just had a very good time together or something. And she had

plainly seen me earlier and ignored me without the slightest hesitation.

[jvkohl]

[font=Verdana]
You

say here that DHEA is not a pheromone, but it has been shown to equally target both the male and female

human VNO, causing a stimulation of 1mV, as demonstrated via electrovomeronasogram. This was in a study which erox

had funded some 10-15 years ago.
e.g.

url]http://www.erox.com/images/Steroid1.GIF[/url]

The graph shows DHEA is not acting on the

VNO

I also received an information that Androstenol, as this is actually an optical isomer

of DHEA. Basically, it's a ‘mirror image' of the DHEA molecule when viewed three-dimensionally. Mr Kohl, could you

please confirm this?

Sounds unlikely, but I'm not a steroid hormone biochemist (and don't like

tricks that are done with mirrors).

JVK

[jvkohl]

Yes, Estratetraenol is

the most effective pheromone that stimulates male VNO and Androstadienone stimulates female VNO most effectively.

Estratetraenol is even more powerful than A-1.

So far, no evidence confirms that there is a

functional human VNO.
The response to the chemicals you mention probably originates via the main olfactory system

in humans.

JVK

[Chemist]

C19 H28 O2 - Moelecular formula for

DHEA
C19 H2 8O - Molecular formula for Androstenone

not the same.

Even if they were optical

isomers, they would not be equivalent. Physiology is very stereospecific (real word) - which means receptors and

binding sites are looking for specific shapes for their sites. The steroid skeleton is stereospecific to begin with.



You can think of a receptor as a lock, and the molecule (substrate) as a key. Some keys will fit into locks

but not be able to turn them (LSD may act on serotin receptors in the same way, hypertension medication does this

also by blocking specific channels in the body) and in many cases, a wrong key will not even fit into a lock.

Imagine a mirror image of a key trying to go into a lock - it most likely will not even be able to penetrate the

lock, much less turn it.

Attached are molecular diagrams of each. The are clearly not mirror images of each

other. There are major structural differences on the left where DHEA has a ---OH and none has a ===O. Also on the

very right, DHEA has a ===O whereas none has no oxygen, but instead has a little extra line in the pentagon over

there - this will cause a major difference in shape for that part of the molecule. Otherwise from that, the two

molecules are the same. The two can be introconverted into one another.

What does this mean? Not a hell of

alot except that they are not optical isomers of each other and they most likely will not act on the same receptor

sites. They will most likely not fit into the same locks.

The Erox graph actually really doesn't say much to

me. I need to know what the hell it means and more importantly the background. The notation in the upper corner that

says "N=21" means that this study was done with only 21 cases. There is nothing to suggest that these 21 subjects

represent the general population. The only thing that can be concluded is that for these 21 cases, that the chemical

on the right eluded more of a voltaic response than all of the others. The voltaic response however, doesn't mean

anything real. THe graph is extremely out of context on its own. It doesn't say anything generalizable in the very

least.

[catlord17]

Chemist, JVK, can you tell us

if DHEA should have any effect similar to a pheromone? As far as I have found, it's produced by the adrenal glands

and it's ingested as a supplement. Why would it have any effect similar to a pheromone at all? Is it even

secreted in sweat?

[luxveritas]

is it possible that a DHEA

molecule might be broken down by skin bacteria into other compounds? It seems strange that a company would bother

releasing a product with such an untested chemical when they could apply the same marketing techniques to readily

available chemicals proven to work. I decided not to bother with the stuff because I found this forum with all kinds

of products proven to work. When I was digging for information I did find something that suggested scientists were

interested in testing pheromone properties of DHEA but nothing about DI-DHEA.

[Chemist]

Here are the structures. Since the

receptor for pheromones isn't structurally known, it is very difficult to predict what binds to what. Anything I

can come up with would be pure conjecture. Suffice to say, any thing beginning with "andro" has the middle hexagonal

rings in common - with all the otehr structures differing in flexibility and angles of chemical bonds by about 15

degrees. I'll write more in detail later if the mood hits me. I would think that DHEA does not bind to the same

receptor sites as andro pheromones, but can be converted into structures that could bind.

[itwow]

Yes, Estratetraenol

is the most effective pheromone that stimulates male VNO and Androstadienone stimulates female VNO most

effectively. Estratetraenol is even more powerful than A-1.

Estratetraenol will be invaluable when

used with WAGG for all-male working environments. It can also be used with A-1 to mitigate depression in ourselves.

But no one is selling it & I don't want Realm/m