Turning friends into lovers...

[tounge]

Well Tounge I'm

not entirely sure if she has a crush on me or not, but then again I probably wouldn't be talking about it on the

forum if I knew for sure. We are close though. But I know for certain there isn't some "stud laying the pipe to

her". In fact she hasn't seen anyone for at least six months. She doesn't date, and she hardly ever goes out. You

might say she's a bit of a prude. On the other hand, sometimes I'd say she's sexually frustrated and just needs a

good lay.

Even if she is playing games, and I'll admit from time to time I think she does, It doesn't

mean I've lost all control. Whenever she gets all dolled up and shifts into prissy mode, I keep my distance/ do my

own thing. And the moment I think she's just looking for some quick attention, I don't have a problem with saying

no, or walking away, which I often do.

Hey, I didn't say she had a crush on you. The

Hawaiian dude did. It's obvious that she likes you, but just as a friend. She does not see you in a romantic light.

You need to get out of that situation. The frustration you're going through has got to be hell.

And as far

as her not being with any other dude. I've known more than a couple of women whose husbands thought they were as

faithful as the Mother Superior of a Convent. They were SHOCKED to find out other wise. I'm working on a plain

speaking male-female relationship book. It is probably still a couple of years from publication. But you may find it

useful someday. The title is "HER GAME<---->YOUR BALLS".

[surfs_up]

games. Just possibly that translates into high self

esteem/positive self image games.... that's when you can be playful, fair, and brutally honest without feeling like

dirty shit is being run on you. Met a gal recently, we can say anything straight to each other's face and be dead

serious about it and laugh about it at the same time. When you're not "protecting", covering up your own hidden

stuff, the feeling of freedom is incredible... low self esteem/poor self image games happen when you're trying to

extract something from the situation on the un-level.... I pretend to be this and you pretend to be that because it

hurts too much to admit what we really see in ourselves, as long as you're doing that you're not working through

the truth, you're working against it.

[belgareth]

games. Just

possibly that translates into high self esteem/positive self image games.... that's when you can be playful, fair,

and brutally honest without feeling like dirty shit is being run on you. Met a gal recently, we can say anything

straight to each other's face and be dead serious about it and laugh about it at the same time. When you're not

"protecting", covering up your own hidden stuff, the feeling of freedom is incredible... low self esteem/poor self

image games happen when you're trying to extract something from the situation on the un-level.... I pretend to be

this and you pretend to be that because it hurts too much to admit what we really see in ourselves, as long as

you're doing that you're not working through the truth, you're working against it.

You've got it

except that isn't games, it's honesty. And it is very liberating to just be who and what you are.

[DUKE3100]

News

flash...Not all girls...correction...not all WOMEN play the tpe games you were refering to.

As for losing your

respect for stating something that seems rather obvious to me, oh darn. My experience isn't just recent

nor is it a result of Wood Elf, it's worked that way for me likely since before you realized their was a difference

between girl people and boy people. Honestly, if its insanity, it sure beats the reality a lot of you guys

have choosen.

Hmmmm....somebody seems a little too worked up dont you think?? I am not sure what your

definition of games is Bel but it certainly is not my definition. You are out of your mind if you think there are

girls that dont play games. Any time a women takes an action or says something in order to get a desired responce

that is in her head and not direct....it is a game. The whole nature of how women communicate is in riddles and

games. I dont care how old you are or what experience you think you have. In my book you are niave. Here is a

newsflash for you Bel: The reason women tend to play games less frequently the older they get is because they get

older and want to settle down so they have to settle for someone who doesnt know how to turn them on. Theres a

newsflash for you. They end up settling. They like a mature guy that is stable and trustworthy as a backup...that

turns them on too....its not a total package but it is something to settle for. Women are biologically turned on by

personality and attitude and confidence and flair and a guy who can understand and flirt and play with them and pass

their tests and games and riddles. Guys are attracted to women biologically predominantly for their looks...but soon

learn that looks are not everything and try to control their urges for the hot young girl. Thats why these young hot

girls play more games and are harder to get....because they can have what they want on their terms. So go off and

live in your little dreamworld Bel....I hope you live happily ever after bud...since your such a pro and think you

know everything my guess is that you will eventually struggle..... Here is a little advice for you: Girls hate know

it alls. I am just pointing it out. SO dont get mad at me when I call you on the fact that you are living in a dream

world. I'm Out.

[catlord17]

Here's what I would

do.

I'd lay it on the table. "You seem to like me, and I seem to like you, so if you want to be more than

friends, say so and we'll take it from there."

Boom. Problem solved.

Of course this is a logical approach

that makes sense, so if these guys are right, it might not work.

[belgareth]

You have a very limited and

narrow vision of the world. What you said above applies to a percentage of women and men. I don't argue that at

all. However, I'm smart enough to know that even the very best of psychologists and behavoirists know that they

cannot make all encompassing statements like yours and expect them to hold. That's why they continue to study human

behavoir, because they don't know all the answers.

Worked up? I was making a joke! I tried to make that plain

through the little pictures, sorry if you missed it.

[DUKE3100]

games. Just

possibly that translates into high self esteem/positive self image games.... that's when you can be playful, fair,

and brutally honest without feeling like dirty shit is being run on you. Met a gal recently, we can say anything

straight to each other's face and be dead serious about it and laugh about it at the same time. When you're not

"protecting", covering up your own hidden stuff, the feeling of freedom is incredible... low self esteem/poor self

image games happen when you're trying to extract something from the situation on the un-level.... I pretend to be

this and you pretend to be that because it hurts too much to admit what we really see in ourselves, as long as

you're doing that you're not working through the truth, you're working against it.

I totally agree

with this right here....totally. Its the immature and insecure and bs games I dont tolerate and there are high class

and low class games and games with good intentions and bad intentions and selfish intentions. There are games that

are subconscious and conscious...you just gotta know how to play and which games to play and when to walk away. If

it becomes clear that this girl is playing dirty just move on. My guess is that if you are trying to get your girl

roomate then you are pritty hard up and girls pick up on that...and are not attracted to it.

[DUKE3100]

Here's what I

would do.

I'd lay it on the table. "You seem to like me, and I seem to like you, so if you want to be more than

friends, say so and we'll take it from there."

Boom. Problem solved.

Of course this is a logical approach

that makes sense, so if these guys are right, it might not work.

Women 101 = NEVER SAY WITH RATIONAL

WORDS ANYTHING LIKE THIS! Wow thats bad advice. You will surely solve your problem if you do this....you wont have

one because you will have burned your bridge.

[DUKE3100]

You have a

very limited and narrow vision of the world. What you said above applies to a percentage of women and men. I don't

argue that at all. However, I'm smart enough to know that even the very best of psychologists and behavoirists know

that they cannot make all encompassing statements like yours and expect them to hold. That's why they continue to

study human behavoir, because they don't know all the answers.

Worked up? I was making a joke! I tried to make

that plain through the little pictures, sorry if you missed it.

I know you were joking....so was

I....thats why I used the term "worked up" and made it a question. I also picked up that you were mad at my responce

though. You know what your problem is? You cant even tell when a guy is joking around...how the hell can you pick up

on the games girls play with you! lol....its not that there are tons that dont play games...its that their games go

right over your head. It all makes sense to me now!! Your an uptight dude arent you? You should think about yoga or

something.

[DUKE3100]

Ok I am going to try to explain

something to everyone that I read in a book about psychology and evolution that makes a lot of sense. This is only a

theory but it makes complete sense. Humans have three brains that have evolved over time.

The first and most

primitive was from way way back before humans even existed and it is similar to what animals have. It's function is

simply to keep you breathing and walking and your heart beating and your eyes blinking...all the unconscious stuff.

The second part of the brain that we developed later on is responsible for our subconscious thoughts and emotions.

Some animals have this part functioning as well (dogs and cats for instance). This part of the brain explains why

when someone cuts you off in the road you get sudden road rage that comes from nowhere and this is responsible for

lust and attraction and being turned on.

All the uncontrollable emotions stem from this and a big part of it is

subconscious. When a hot girl has got you all nervous and speechless this is the emotional part. When you are still

in love with your hot ex-girlfriend who you know is a hopeless alcoholic and who is nothing but trouble...but you

still are turned on by her and miss her and want her....that is this part of the brain. This is the part of the

brain that draws women to stay with boyfriends that beat her and are horrible for her.

The final part of the

brain is the rational one. This is the latest brain to develope and only humans and maybe dolphines have it. This is

right and wrong good and bad and societal norms. This is what keeps you from walking up to that hot babe who happens

to be your boss and asking her out. This is what keeps couples that are unhappy together and keeps the unhappy guy

or girl from cheating on her husband/wife....until it fails.


See while we would like to think our rational

thoughts are under control...sometimes they are not. You can relate to this for any time an emotion took over and

made you do something that you later deemed stupid and dumb. This is all evolution people and guess what? The

emotional brain has been around longer and is a bigger part of your brain. We keep it in check yes but this is the

part of a womens brain that wants a man to be a real man and not a sissy.

This is the biological part that

responds differently depending on the sex. For guys it is mainly on looks and for girls it is mainly on personality.

If you can learn to appeal to both brains you can have fun with a lot of women.

Its not enough to be the nice

good rapport friendly guy who doesnt play any games with any girl. It may be enough for now....in the end it is

about appealing to both brains. Being a somewhat safe and respectable guy who takes care of her but also being that

sexy mans man that her emotional brain responds to. If appealing to both of these needs is "playing games" and too

much trouble....than the only long run game you will be playing is peekaboo with your winkie. Class dismissed.

[DUKE3100]

You have a

very limited and narrow vision of the world. .

Why is that Bel? Because I disagree with you??

[catlord17]

Women 101 =

NEVER SAY WITH RATIONAL WORDS ANYTHING LIKE THIS! Wow thats bad advice. You will surely solve your problem if you do

this....you wont have one because you will have burned your bridge.

How is it bad advice? It's

effective communication. I just cut through months and years of bullshit.

This is not bad advice at all. It's

just going to have a different effect depending on the type of woman. I personally don't like playing games. I

have too much to do to spend time playing games. And, I like women who can think. So it makes perfect sense to

approach the situation this way for me. The result is that I end up with intelligent, left brain oriented types,

who are mature enough to want the games out of the way.

In other words, it works beautifully for the type of

woman I am interested in attracting.

My way is not necessarily going to be the right way for anyone else,

naturally.

[DUKE3100]

[QUOTE=catlord17]How is it bad

advice? It's effective communication. I just cut through months and years of bullshit.

it makes perfect sense

to approach the situation this way for me. The result is that I end up with intelligent, left brain oriented types,

who are mature enough to want the games out of the way.

In other words, it works beautifully for the type of

woman I am interested in attracting.
[QUOTE]

Ok first off please dont take offense to my comment it wasnt

aimed personally at you...its just my opinion and I am sure there are plenty that would agree with me that it is a

very poor strategy to show your interest in a girl by rationally explaining it to her and asking her to go along.

Women are emotional not rational. To make them want you you must make them feel not make them think. If women were

to only use rational thought as their reasoning they would all be lesbians and never take a second look at a guy

again. Now be honest with me here Cat....do you have a girlfriend? If you do did you say "Hello Jane you know I

would like to be more than friends with you. I say that starting at noon tomorrow we try kissing and see how that

goes...would you be my girlfriend?....In fact cat can you honestly tell me that you find your suggested method to be

effective over the many alternatives or even on an even playing field?

I can certainly relate with your

comment that you behave in a manner that will attract the type of girl you are looking for....but if you are looking

for a rational girl that you can talk into being your girlfriend instead of your roomate (This persons situation)

than you must spend a lot of nights alone with your winkiepoo.

[Gegogi]

"This is the biological

part that responds differently depending on the sex. For guys it is mainly on looks and for girls it is mainly on

personality. If you can learn to appeal to both brains you can have fun with a lot of women."

Our own Mr.

James V. Kohl disagrees with the above premise.

"...the only means by which the visual, social and

intellectual environment can biologically interact with behavior, is via a neuroendocrine (e.g., hormone) response.

Pheromones directly elicit this neuroendocrine response; no other sensory input from the social environment does

this."

I personally believe attraction occurs on several levels, e.g., visual, lifesytle, personality and

pheromones. Our brains somehow sort out the information and decide on a course of action. Occasionally I've been

crazy attracted to women I really didn't find physically pleasing. The sound of their voice, persona and, I'm

sure, pheromones make me want to drop to my knees, stick my nose firmly in their snatch and make babies. So I'm

attracted and replused at the same time. Hopefully I won't meet this woman when three sheets to the wind...

[Bruce]

Guys,

After reading all this

I am overwhelmed with the desire to talk privately to the girl and find out what the heck is *really* going on in

her mind and emotions. Seems to me, y'all are just guessing based on your own experience of this *type* of

situation. In a perfect world, all our man here would have to do is ask her himself, but 9 times out of 10 he

wouldn't get a straight answer these days. Myself, I would ask her anyways. Then.... if she is that wonderful 1

in 10 (that may be overly optimistic) who knows what the heck she is feeling and wanting.... AND if she is honest

about it.... AND she is interested in romance with me.... then we are good to go.

B

[DUKE3100]

I personally

believe attraction occurs on several levels, e.g., visual, lifesytle, personality and pheromones. Our brains somehow

sort out the information and decide on a course of action.

I think you may have totally misunderstood

the whole thing. I couldnt possibly cover everything so maybe its just not enough information....but all the things

you mention belong to each of the three brains. Visual would appeal to the emotional and the thinking brain.

Lifestyle would appeal to both brains. Personality would appeal to both brains. and Phermones appeals to the

emotional/subconscious brain. These are vague descriptions though Gegogi. Personality is complex. A deep slow and

erotic voice as part of a personality traite would stimulate the emotional brain for a women in contrast to a geeky

fast speaking voice. Where as something like intelligence tends to mostly appeal to the thinking brain. I hope this

makes things more clear....

[DUKE3100]

Guys,

After

reading all this I am overwhelmed with the desire to talk privately to the girl and find out what the heck is

*really* going on in her mind and emotions. Seems to me, y'all are just guessing based on your own experience of

this *type* of situation. In a perfect world, all our man here would have to do is ask her himself, but 9 times out

of 10 he wouldn't get a straight answer these days. Myself, I would ask her anyways. Then.... if she is that

wonderful 1 in 10 (that may be overly optimistic) who knows what the heck she is feeling and wanting.... AND if she

is honest about it.... AND she is interested in romance with me.... then we are good to go.

B

Perfectly explained Bruce....the odds certainly are not favorable. However I urge everyone to please keep in mind

that just as Bruce said...we all speak based on our own experiences in life and in the end all of the advice in the

world doesnt matter....its what you want to do. Most people simply have to learn things the hard way....on their

own....and find what works best for them. I try to study this stuff and practice this stuff as much as I can. I

always take the things that have the best odds. I definately think at the end of the day you gotta stay true to

yourself and try to use your behavior to draw out the type of girl you are looking for. However just because a girl

is complex and emotional and confused a lot of the time does not mean she is not the right one for you. Sometimes

you gotta try to take approaches that are sensitive to a womens emotional makeup.

[oscar]

Here is a little

advice for you: Girls hate know it alls. I am just pointing it out.

And who better to point this out.



Oscar

[Gegogi]

Actually not. I wasn't confused

nor did I disagree. I'm aware of the theory of interconnected deep brain structures. And, duh, intelligence and

lifestyle appeal to the rational brain while pheromones work on an older part of the brain. Nevertheless, after all

that good information you spoiled it by stating for men the main biological motivation is visual. There's a lot

more to it than visual.

[catlord17]

[QUOTE=DUKE3100][QUOTE=catlord17]How is it bad advice? It's effective communication. I just cut through months and

years of bullshit.

it makes perfect sense to approach the situation this way for me. The result is that I end up

with intelligent, left brain oriented types, who are mature enough to want the games out of the way.

In other

words, it works beautifully for the type of woman I am interested in attracting.

Ok first off please

dont take offense to my comment it wasnt aimed personally at you...its just my opinion and I am sure there are

plenty that would agree with me that it is a very poor strategy to show your interest in a girl by rationally

explaining it to her and asking her to go along. Women are emotional not rational. To make them want you you must

make them feel not make them think. If women were to only use rational thought as their reasoning they would all be

lesbians and never take a second look at a guy again. Now be honest with me here Cat....do you have a girlfriend? If

you do did you say "Hello Jane you know I would like to be more than friends with you. I say that starting at noon

tomorrow we try kissing and see how that goes...would you be my girlfriend?....In fact cat can you honestly tell me

that you find your suggested method to be effective over the many alternatives or even on an even playing field?



I can certainly relate with your comment that you behave in a manner that will attract the type of girl you are

looking for....but if you are looking for a rational girl that you can talk into being your girlfriend instead of

your roomate (This persons situation) than you must spend a lot of nights alone with your winkiepoo.

No

offense taken. In fact, I got a good laugh out of your last response.

Let me say that I do have a girlfriend,

and I got her by waiting after class for her to come out one day and saying that I thought she was really a

beautiful woman, and I would like to get to know her better. I was simply open and honest with her, gave her respect

and reasonable space, and I had her giving me her phone number in about 5 minutes. After I got home from work, I

called her up (the very same day) and asked her out on a date for that very same night. And we have been together

for three years now.

By the way, she's about as far from a logical thinker as they get. I just can't get past

that "I love her" thing. But when I asked her out, I basically said exacly what I suggested. "It's obvious that you

like me, and I like you too, so if you're interested in being more than friends, just say so and we'll take it

from there."

It worked, by the way.

See the difference? I didn't walk up to a stranger and act like Mr.

Spock. It doesn't work blind, but it does work if you know when and how to use it. Pretty much just like anything

else.

It doesn't work allthe time, and it doesn't work on every woman... but I don't always use that

technique, either. I just prefer it because it cuts out the BS. I don't like games or BS. With me, what you see is

what you get.

If he has this situation with a girl who is a roommate, and he wants to make her a lover, I think

the best solution is to communicate effectively. Games only screw that up.

[surfs_up]

often for long periods of time without any idea about how to sort them

out... that may not be a deliberate game, as in a judo move to trap you or push you off balance, maybe just that

several values, interests, needs all turned on and they don't easily share the same space in her head or your

head.

girl and me are having a bite at sandwich place: she says something kinda romantic provocative and a

li'l bit sultry

me: "ummmm, yeah, sure, you're sorting out some stuff"

she: "oh, I didn't mean it

like that"

me: " no, it's cool, you're testing some thoughts on yourself right now, ok by me"...

The

message from me to her is that it is OK to give me the full range of all the stuff she's thinking, she doesn't

have to edit her thoughts to what she thinks I want to hear, so she doesn't have to be so perfect or self

controlled, and she'll cut me the same slack to be myself... putting on an act is so damn exhausting and worse than

that, boring as hell.

[DUKE3100]

And who better to

point this out.

Oscar

You got me their Oscar....you got me good!! I learned that lesson the hard way

as you might imagine. lol

[DUKE3100]

[QUOTE=catlord17][QUOTE=DUKE3100]

How is it bad advice? It's effective communication. I just cut

through months and years of bullshit.

it makes perfect sense to approach the situation this way for me. The

result is that I end up with intelligent, left brain oriented types, who are mature enough to want the games out of

the way.

In other words, it works beautifully for the type of woman I am interested in attracting.


No

offense taken. In fact, I got a good laugh out of your last response.

Let me say that I do have a girlfriend,

and I got her by waiting after class for her to come out one day and saying that I thought she was really a

beautiful woman, and I would like to get to know her better. I was simply open and honest with her, gave her respect

and reasonable space, and I had her giving me her phone number in about 5 minutes. After I got home from work, I

called her up (the very same day) and asked her out on a date for that very same night. And we have been together

for three years now.

By the way, she's about as far from a logical thinker as they get. I just can't get past

that "I love her" thing. But when I asked her out, I basically said exacly what I suggested. "It's obvious that you

like me, and I like you too, so if you're interested in being more than friends, just say so and we'll take it

from there."

It worked, by the way.

See the difference? I didn't walk up to a stranger and act like Mr.

Spock. It doesn't work blind, but it does work if you know when and how to use it. Pretty much just like anything

else.

It doesn't work allthe time, and it doesn't work on every woman... but I don't always use that

technique, either. I just prefer it because it cuts out the BS. I don't like games or BS. With me, what you see is

what you get.

If he has this situation with a girl who is a roommate, and he wants to make her a lover, I think

the best solution is to communicate effectively. Games only screw that up.

My last real serious

girlfriend lasted about 5 years and if I was to write a similar post about her and how I got her it would be almost

identical to yours. That being said your approach was very classy and smooth and thats why it worked. This is a

different situation though. This guy lives with her and they are friends. It is much different. I honestly wish

things could be simple with women in a way that made sense to us guys....sadly its just not the case fella's. If

any of you have truely honestly found a women that is rational and logical and who does not play any games....and

you have been with her and been married to her and you are happy and not getting divorced....than you are very rare

and lucky people. Thats all I gotta say bout that!

[catlord17]

[QUOTE=DUKE3100][QUOTE=catlord17]

My last real serious girlfriend lasted about 5 years and if I

was to write a similar post about her and how I got her it would be almost identical to yours. That being said your

approach was very classy and smooth and thats why it worked. This is a different situation though. This guy lives

with her and they are friends. It is much different. I honestly wish things could be simple with women in a way that

made sense to us guys....sadly its just not the case fella's. If any of you have truely honestly found a women that

is rational and logical and who does not play any games....and you have been with her and been married to her and

you are happy and not getting divorced....than you are very rare and lucky people. Thats all I gotta say bout

that!

You know, communicating effectively means that both parties understand one another. It doesn't

mean that just because a left brain thinker is a left brain thinker, s/he should approach a right brain thinkerwith

left brain communication styles!

In order to communcate with a right brain thinker, you have to speak their

"language". Logic is as alien to emotion as light is to darkness. So whichever you happen to be, you have to find

a way to get your point across in the other person's "language". My way isn't the only way, and isn't right for

every situation. But I still believe that guessing at what eachother wants and is doing is just a waste of time

destined to cause more problems than it solves. There are ways to ask what she's really thinking without going

outside how she thinks.

[DrSmellThis]

News

flash...Not all girls...correction...not all WOMEN play the tpe games you were refering to. Maybe I've been lucky

or maybe you've been unlucky but whatever the case, you're flat wrong! As I've got older fewer want to play games

but it has never been all who wanted to play. Maybe my refusal to play is the reason, I really don't know or care

but I do know that I don't play and will not tolerate games from any woman or any person. I walk away every time.

To me, the games are all about dominance and control. I'm not going to try to dominate anybody and do not allow

others to dominate me. If a woman isn't interested in a relationship on those terms I'm not interested in her.

Could it be that we hunt in different grounds and the mentality is different where I hunt?

I grew up with

several sisters, one was a year older than me and one was a year younger. I saw and heard a lot of that nonsense

growing up and didn't like it much. Maybe that makes the difference in how I deal with women.

As for losing

your respect for stating something that seems rather obvious to me, oh darn. My experience isn't just

recent nor is it a result of Wood Elf, it's worked that way for me likely since before you realized their was a

difference between girl people and boy people. Honestly, if its insanity, it sure beats the reality a lot of

you guys have choosen.

I fully understand that games seem like they're everywhere; and they probably are

mostly everywhere in certain settings/situations, especially bars and clubs.

But there is a certain level

you can go to, where you as a man can just determine that you are Master of your Sexuality Reality, and

refuse to respond to, or participate in games.

Today I saw an attractive young hippyish women at an essential

oil store who had played me for attention in the past. I was just real with her, reasonably open, but not making any

effort to give her attention, flirt or win her attention. I just was myself, and approached everything with a blank

slate in my mind, tuning myself only to what seemed to be real; and real responses. Why? I have been happy with the

reality of my interactions lately, and was just flat not interested in anything else for my world. She was probably

puzzled by me, and was struggling to read something into my presentation. In response she became extra "queenly" (if

you understand this term), as if to gain control over me regardless of whatever persona she thought I was putting

on. Only it wasn't a persona. It was just me; and I really didn't give a rat's @$$ how she felt about me,

even though I had in the past. It was a feeling of strength for sure. I sensed that I was completely floating above

her manipulations, and could just observe them. I was operating in a different universe from her, and this is what

it is in a sense.

You find that you are not alone in that universe. When you do this, you will find more women

who aren't into games either, or at least one that will make you stop looking (unless you still want to play more

games).

That is because women cannot afford to play games forever. They'd be screwing themselves. Maybe they

find lots of attractive men by playing games, but ultimately they need more than playing games can reliably get

them. They can't get a great, fulfilling, forever relationship by bullshitting around. If I can offer a woman that,

which is not easy to find, she is an idiot not to drop the games.

Your substance "trumps the game", melts through

it, and brings an end to it. It takes two. Experience helps.

[DrSmellThis]

Hmmmm....somebody seems a little too worked up dont you think?? I am not sure what your definition

of games is Bel but it certainly is not my definition. You are out of your mind if you think there are girls that

dont play games. Any time a women takes an action or says something in order to get a desired responce that is in

her head and not direct....it is a game. The whole nature of how women communicate is in riddles and games. I dont

care how old you are or what experience you think you have. In my book you are niave. Here is a newsflash for you

Bel: The reason women tend to play games less frequently the older they get is because they get older and want to

settle down so they have to settle for someone who doesnt know how to turn them on. Theres a newsflash for you. They

end up settling. They like a mature guy that is stable and trustworthy as a backup...that turns them on too....its

not a total package but it is something to settle for. Women are biologically turned on by personality and attitude

and confidence and flair and a guy who can understand and flirt and play with them and pass their tests and games

and riddles. Guys are attracted to women biologically predominantly for their looks...but soon learn that looks are

not everything and try to control their urges for the hot young girl. Thats why these young hot girls play more

games and are harder to get....because they can have what they want on their terms.

Please see my above post,

brother man.

The "real" women I have in mind are not so much settling as getting exactly what they want in terms

of their priorities. I am turning my girlfriend on more than she ever has been precisely because of our multiple

depths of connection (e.g., I'm in tune with her emotions, etc.). This is not a strange phenomenon. Even your

pheromonal exchanges are related to multiple levels of your personality and hers. A real, deep, multilevel

connection is extremely sexy. When you have this a woman's games are humbly melted away, and she is essentially

"powerless to resist."

While many women tend to play games you can ultimately set it up so they can't get away

with that with you, and therefore only leave room for a certain kind of behavior.

Nature abhors a vacuum.

[tim929]

Ya know what...why dont we all

just get dogs and call it good enough?

[DrSmellThis]

Guys,

After

reading all this I am overwhelmed with the desire to talk privately to the girl and find out what the heck is

*really* going on in her mind and emotions. Seems to me, y'all are just guessing based on your own experience of

this *type* of situation. In a perfect world, all our man here would have to do is ask her himself, but 9 times out

of 10 he wouldn't get a straight answer these days. Myself, I would ask her anyways. Then.... if she is that

wonderful 1 in 10 (that may be overly optimistic) who knows what the heck she is feeling and wanting.... AND if she

is honest about it.... AND she is interested in romance with me.... then we are good to go.

B

Gentlemen,

this is an example of someone who seems not to play games. There is a certain childlike genuineness to this

approach, and the right woman cannot resist that (think about it -- women love the honesty of kids and can't resist

it). BTW, Bruce has a very hot wife. Do you think this was an accident?

Now, I've had this approach

"fail" (or "succeed in a negative way") any number of times. But even the game playing woman who turns this approach

(if made in a healthy way) down, will often feel a twinge of humility in the face of it, and know she is just not

ready for that mature level of relating with you at this time. The power ultimately sides with reality and

truth.

But the only way you can have this power is if you too are honestly rejecting game playing for yourself,

and are emotionally mature enough. Why do you think people tend to meet that special someone when they are truly

ready? There is a level where it's not rocket science, and actually makes sense. It does happen all around us, and

yet a bit of faith is required when it hasn't happened to you.

[DrSmellThis]

I try to

study this stuff and practice this stuff as much as I can. I always take the things that have the best

odds.

This is a key difference. I used to believe in playing the odds.

Not any more.

That has to do

with what I'm looking for. What you can seek, if you choose, is one person who is the best, by your best,

real, honest definition. A person you will love so much you won't want to leave them behind.

The method for

doing this is very different from the method for seeking high numbers of attractees to choose "the best" from. Get

the difference? It is a logical error to think you can substitute the latter method for the former.

This is

what "pick up artists" do not understand. Take it from someone who may have already slept with more women than

the historical Casanova (of course it's easier nowadays), and yet has been frustrated most of his

life.

Recently, maybe a month ago, I wrote about this in more detail.

[belgareth]

I know you were

joking....so was I....thats why I used the term "worked up" and made it a question. I also picked up that you were

mad at my responce though. You know what your problem is? You cant even tell when a guy is joking around...how the

hell can you pick up on the games girls play with you! lol....its not that there are tons that dont play games...its

that their games go right over your head. It all makes sense to me now!! Your an uptight dude arent you? You should

think about yoga or something.

From an arrogant clown who doesn't have the first clue what he is talking

about. You babble about science on this forum and tell us how what you think is the absolute word of science when it

is no more than an unsupported theory based on a few thin facts. Where's the peer review? The contradictive

evidence and how is it addressed? There's a whole long list of questions a real scientist would ask.

You give a

great example by completely misreading me. Or is a personal attack your answer when you don't get your way? You've

shown just how little you understand about human nature and reading people a couple times in that paragraph. What a

joke!