be smelled or not !?!

[pizzaro]

I have read here

on the forum that about 40 percent people do not smell mones.

First i thought that this would mean that the

can not smell them but still can get affected by them.

Now i have read a german Article which says that there

is a aspecial organ in the nose, which is responsible for that procedure.
But not everyone does have such an

organ which means that he can't smell and thus no notice any effects of pheromones.

Is that right or do I

have misunderstood sth.

I have the Edge from the beginner special. But just do smell alcohol.
Does this

mean that I an't be affected by pheromones?

This article says that only 30% of woman are able to smell

mones.

This article confuses me a bit. It says that about 60% of all people are able to smell mones but only

30 percent of women. It is written by an proffesor and he has not written it very clearly to understand.

this

would mean that only 3 of ten women can smell your mones. That's not a big quote.
Or did anyone have different

experiences - noticed that more women can smell you?

Or is that article a fake or did I even have misunderstood

it?

let me know

[Marlboro_man]

The research that I have

seen is that over 80% of women can "detect" mones. Now that is different then smelling because smelling has to do

with the nose and not necessarily the VNO or whatever else may be triggering the unconscience mind. I am no expert

however so those of you who know more please chime in.

[CptKipling]

There is also at least one

article in the Research Forum about Olfactory Plasticity (a bit of a mouthful ), which says that sensitivity to

-none increases with exposure.

On a side note, I think that your article is talking about the VNO, but there is

no evidence that it is actually required to detect pheromones.

[pizzaro]

the prof who wrote this also

wrote that the mones are not necessaraly are transported with nerve signals but also hormonaly. But he did not refer

to the Vpo. So I do not knowif he ment if the VPo sends out the hormones or other paths. That was a big point that

did confuse me. Forgot to mention that.

Oh dam another thing that I forgot. He told that about 40% of all

people do not have that organ anymore. Right after that he says that 30% of do have it on the left and the right.

21% do have it on the left and 21% on the right side of the nose. The rest does not have it. This does not quite fix

his first statment. And the second statment says that only about 28% do not have it.
In his second statment he

refers to an american study which was made in Sarasota.
This might help.

But now I have to go to bed.

Haven't slept much the last days and my eye bags does not like that

till tomorrow

[pizzaro]

@ CtpKipling
Yeah he also

meant sth. like that in the beginning. But If you do not have such an organ. Maybe you are right that this organ is

not that important.
He also refered to some tests with pigs first, where this organ directly send iformations to

the brain after using none.

[Friendly1]

Research on the functionality

of the vomeronasal organ (the VNO) is still in its infancy, I think, and there is much disagreement among biologists

and psychologists over how active the VNO is in human. I believe James Kohl has also said that at least some

pheromone perception occurs outside the VNO, whereas some of the other pheromone experts claim that it all occurs

through the VNO.

Someone posted an abstract a few days ago which indicated that pheromone perception is a more

chemically active process than previously supposed. That would support the detection-outside-the-VNO theory, and

might explain why the VNO seems to be less useful than it once was.

But given all the sniffing stories we have

shared here, I would say the VNO ain't quite dead yet.

[Rover The Dog]

Kind of on topic i figured

i might as well post here then create my own thread... I was just wondering if someone were to get surgery on the

nose is it likely that it will damage their VNO causing them to not be able to detect mones like a person who has

not been through that surgery?

[jvkohl]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=8526162


Garcia﷓Velasco, J., & Garcia﷓Casas, S. (1995) Nose surgery and the vomeronasal organ. Aesth. Plast.

Surg., 19, 451-454.
The idea that the human VNO is probably involved in pheromone detection comes from several

lines of evidence. Enough information shows receptors, afferents, and autonomic reflex to explain certain social and

behavioral phenomena. Surgeons must preserve the VNO and determine loss of function if prior damage has been

done.
---------------------------------------------------------------
The VNO is not required for pheromones

to elicit a hormone response.

JVK

[Inthewoods]

Is this stuff really real

that some people can smell pheros and others cant? It seems weird to me.
And quite dissapointing. When its

really only 30 per cent then I guess I might not use pheros in the future.
Somebody please show us some other more

optimistic researches! I hope that this german scientist is a common bum.

[pizzaro]

as far as I have read about

pheros it has much more than some pheromones.

marriage of over 100 essences that have been

reputed to be aphrodisiacs and pheromones.

Regarding how far this topic went till now, it is not quite

sure if the vpo is really that important to transmitt pheromonal informations.
If it were so than pheros still

would have other pathways to reach a targed- because of the other integrents.

As far as everyone knows we get

feelings by every kind of smells. Like for example when some food does smell bad we do not touch it. That is the

same with me even if I can't smell the none of TE. Thus a nice smell does project a good feeling.

By the way

has anyone read a book of partick Süskind: the parfume
Maybe it is named different in english.

This guy about

whom the story is about had a very good nose and if he thought about a smell he could smell it. afterwards he

manipulated people with parfumes and not with mones. He had the same effect. In the end it ended in a big orgy -

very crazy

[jvkohl]

it doesn't matter what percentage

of people can smell pheromones -- they affect us whether or not we are consciously aware of any odor. the only

exceptions are people who have damaged part of the olfactory pathway that is involved in production of gonadotropin

releasing hormone--if interested read my book or technical papers.

JVK

[pizzaro]

I hane also read that everyone

has his own signature( this has been mentioned in this forum as well very often) and people are supposed to chose

someone who has a completely different signature as he has on its own. The mor different the signature the bigger

the possibility to get coupled. That is an instinct which was created by the evelution so that the genetical code

gets more and moremixed through the population.

Regarding that the greek legend of odipus should be surely an

lie. Odipus felt in love with his mother and being a son of someone you have a very similar signature to your

relatives. It is made to prevent that there won't be born criples and not healthy individuals.
As i remember the

english nobility hadd many marriages in the family to prevent the english throne - it should stay in the family so

that the politcal power won't split up. Many people in this family had the the same illness which is called the

bleeder/hemopholie disease. This people don't stop to bleed after an injury

[pizzaro]

It is als very interesting that

women who take the pill do not really smell the partner. Or they smell him in a very different way. Because of that

after stopping to take the pill a relation could break apart because the women starts to realize that she "can't

smell her" husband - she does not like him anymore then. That is also an explanation why some couples aren't able

to get childrean even if they both are completely healthy.

[CptKipling]

I hane also read

that everyone has his own signature( this has been mentioned in this forum as well very often) and people are

supposed to chose someone who has a completely different signature as he has on its own. The mor different the

signature the bigger the possibility to get coupled. That is an instinct which was created by the evelution so that

the genetical code gets more and moremixed through the population.

This isn't actually true.

It is

suggested that chemical identifiers (pheromones) from our MHC (Major Histo-Compatability) genes are expressed on our

skin. MHC genes code for diversity for part of our immune system, the part which controls the structure of

our antibodies (antibodies have a specific antigen target, the specicifity of which is determined by the structure

of the anitbodies "active" site), so the more varied your MHC genes the more different types antigens you can

produce, and thus the more pathogens you can fend off. Therefore it is benificial to mate with someone with MHC

genes very different from your own, which was shown in the famous t-shirt study.

However, the generic purpose of

our bodies is to ensure that our DNA is passed on to the next general, which means that it is actually a

dissadvantage to mate with someone with very different genes other than the MHC genes. The only reason, apart from

morality, that it's bad to have a child with a close relative is because of immunity, and also because it increases

the chances that a bad allele (version) of a gene will be expressed, which is what happened in the Royal family (you

have two copies of every gene, one from your mum and one from your dad - this means that you can have 1 bad allele

and still be ok, if both your mum and your dad have and give you a defective allele then the it has to be used).



So you actually end up with something in the middle of those two criterea. An ideal situation is mating with

someone with very different MHC genes but similar genetic traits, as long as it isn't too close a relative. But

there is yet another level of complexity, because we also want to mate with individuals that will give our children

the best chance of surviving and reproducing themselves.

It's also worth pointing out to the unitiated that the

pheromones we deal with (-none, -nol, -rone, etc.) are gross attraction pheromones, meaning that they only give

general signals of testosterone levels, fitness, youth, etc. There is no way (and no point) of using MHC

pheromones.

That is an instinct which was created by the evelution so that the genetical code gets more

and moremixed through the population... It is made to prevent that there won't be born criples and not healthy

individuals.

True, but religion also had it's say for the same reasons.

[Gegogi]

"Odipus felt in love with

his mother and being a son of someone you have a very similar signature to your relatives. It is made to prevent

that there won't be born criples and not healthy individuals."

However, watch it around your female

cousins. They may not care if you have a similar signature! A couple of mine sure didn't. They may think you're

good for a quick roll in the hay since dating is taboo and they don't have to worry about commitment.

[pizzaro]

mmunity, and also because

it increases the chances that a bad allele (version) of a gene will be expressed, which is what happened in the

Royal family (you have two copies of every gene, one from your mum and one from your dad - this means that you can

have 1 bad allele and still be ok, if both your mum and your dad have and give you a defective allele then the it

has to be used).

Yep, thats right, but only if this illness acts recessive.
It is not important for this

convesrsation but since you have described this that exact I wanted to add this thus it is complete.



grat that here are some people that can explain stuff better than some scientists,
and jiggle some stuff right


The prof didn't mention the MHCs and he was talking about attraction pheromones

(especially none)
Refering to that he really made up some bullshit, since the topic about he spoke refered to the

attraction through mones.

I do not see any necassaryness of using that kind of mones either this would be a

crappy idea because even if his claims would be right and he really ment the MHC mones you would just

attract a definetely a smaller groupe of women as with the attraction mones.

[CptKipling]

Defective alleles are usually

recessive, unless they are sex linked (on the X or Y chromosome).

In a way, using MHC pheromones could be a very

powerful method, it's just just very impracticle as each mix would have hundreds of ingredients, be almost person

specific, and you would have to actually sample each targets own MHC genes in the first place.

[platinumfox]

However, watch

it around your female cousins. They may not care if you have a similar signature! A couple of mine sure didn't.

They may think you're good for a quick roll in the hay since dating is taboo and they don't have to worry about

commitment.

Could we have more details about your "kissing cousins" maybe I could join your family?

[jvkohl]

I vaguely recall a study with

results suggesting that women purchased perfumes that correlated with their tissue type (MHC diversity). It seems

likely that at a subconscious level such a choice could be made, and that it would enhance the natural scent

signature.

JVK

[Gegogi]

"Could we have more

details about your "kissing cousins" maybe I could join your family?"

Actually "kissing cousins" syndrome is

common, people just don't like to admit to it. It usually occurs when cousins that don't know one another are

forced together at family gatherings. If you grew up with them there's usually no chemistry. When I was in grade

school I used to play doctor with neighborhood girls. My female cousins used to visit every few years and usually

wanted to join in. No sex (thank God), we just made out and showed one another our pee-pees. Even in recent

adulthood I had a younger cousin come after me after she got drunk at a wedding (I was wearing 'mones). Plus she

pissed off my GF. I think she just wanted to grab me because I was handy and had no further intentions.

Incidentally, you can legally marry your 2nd cousin in the USA.

[CptKipling]

I vaguely recall

a study with results suggesting that women purchased perfumes that correlated with their tissue type (MHC

diversity). It seems likely that at a subconscious level such a choice could be made, and that it would enhance the

natural scent signature.

JVK

I remember that

too.

Do you think that it is actually to enhance a persons natural scent signature? Did the scent correlate

with tissue type or was more diverse? I'd like to see that study again.

[pizzaro]

Originally Posted by

jvkohl
I vaguely recall a study with results suggesting that women purchased perfumes that correlated

with their tissue type (MHC diversity). It seems likely that at a subconscious level such a choice could be made,

and that it would enhance the natural scent signature.

JVK

Was the perfume especially created

forthewomen who ordered it or does it fit with everyone's signature thus a unique formula?

[Silcat]

I assume 1st cousin is children

of one of the parents brother/sister.

what about 2nd cousins? Children from... who? from the grand parents

brothers or the grand parents nephews?

:!

[jvkohl]

Don't remember anything else about

the study--checked under Wedekind, C. since I thought it was his work. Sometimes all i can recall is a conference

presentation--and these findings may show up in press coverage. Might have been Rachel

Herz

JVK

[CptKipling]

I found this in some notes I

copy/pasted ages ago:

A study by Wedekind indicated that fragrance choice

correlated well with genetic make-up (i.e., MHC/HLA diversity), and speculatively offered context: It may be that

fragrance choice is designed to enhance our genetically determined scent signals. If so, one could expect to find

particular fragrances used among those of similar ethnic or genetic

origin.





JVK

[bjf]

well there's all that stuff about

hair type and what smells good on your...hair color can correlate with ethnicity or origin

[CptKipling]

Related (maybe from the same

thread):

Today I had the pleasure of meeting up with one of those girls that work in

those big department stores who sell fragrances.

Well this is what she said,

fragrances work with your body chemistry as everyone knows, but she went further by saying in her experience (she

has been selling fragrances for years and years) skin color is the important factor to what fragrance will work. The

reason why skin color is never mentioned in fragrance selection is simply not to offend, and clearly would become a

racism and discrimination issue if they marketed that way.

She said, people with fair skin

respond better with citrus/woody scents like issy and those with darker skin are suited better with sweeter scents.

It doesn’t matter how they smell from the bottle, but how the change with your chemistry. Issy smells different on

me then it would on another guy with different skin.

[Riley]

This

article says that only 30% of woman are able to smell mones.

This article confuses me a bit. It says that

about 60% of all people are able to smell mones but only 30 percent of women. It is written by an proffesor and he

has not written it very clearly to understand.

this would mean that only 3 of ten women can smell your

mones. That's not a big quote.
Or did anyone have different experiences - noticed that more women can smell

you?

Or is that article a fake or did I even have misunderstood it?

let me

know

From personal experience, I can guarantee you this is not true. I am SURE that more than

30% of women are affected by 'mones... almost all, actually. As for how many can consciously SMELL them, well I

dunno... but they don't have to smell them to be affected by them, and most all are affected by them.



However, playing devil's advocate-- even if only 30% of women were affected by 'mones, that would still mean that

3 out of every 10 women you pass by (almost 1 out of every 3) would be affected... considering the number of women

you pass by through the course of any normal day, those are still pretty good numbers to justify the purchase of

some 'mones!


Riley