Connection between stress and pheromones

[bjf]

I

have noticed by best and most obvious hits from natural pheromones alone (really the only hits I can chalk up to

being a result of natural pheromones) occur within 24 hours of being through a situation in which:

a) there

was a period of extreme stress
b) I was sweating alot
c) no showering occured until after the stress was

over

I have had amazing hits from this. The situations were all not ones I would wish on anyone, and I

looked like shit in all of them. I am posting this today because a woman in a store litterally froze for about five

seconds and went into DIHL despite the fact that I hadn't worn any synthetic mones in over a week. Even when I

gave her a smile, she was still seemingly caught off guard by the mones and was in la-la land until eventually

snapping out of it. That's just not normal.

I had just come off being sick. I was sweating alot, didn't

shower for two days until this morning, had a terrible monday night which i was up all night hurling non stop. It

was not a fun couple of days.

Now maybe the stress is just making me sweat more (or differently?) but I

wonder if any androgen production increases or decreases that improves your mones signature. I know cortisol levels

are elevated, and your A/E ratio is supposed to become more feminine, but maybe stress causes some good things.

[Surreal]

interesting..... I can see were

that all makes perfect sense.

[jvkohl]

Cortisol decreases

dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), the precursor of androsterone (A) and etiocholanolone (E). Because other factors come

into play in the metabolism of DHEA and the A/E ratio, I can't be sure about the cortisol A/E ratio, but I think

the ratio would become less masculine. Still, the increased in perspiration might make pheromone output more

attractive to women. No way to be sure at this point.

JVK

[bjf]

OK, I think I know what is

happening:

"The normal reaction of the body to stress is to produce greater quantities of both cortisol and

DHEA. When the stress is gone, the body reduces its output of cortisol and DHEA to resting levels and everything is

fine. This is what happens with short episodes of stress. However, when the stress is prolonged, the body prefers to

make increasingly greater amounts of cortisol and less DHEA. How long does it take for this to occur? One study

showed that after just 28 days of continuous stress, cortisol levels had climbed to 240 percent of starting values

and DHEA had dropped to 15 percent of initial levels!"


Basically my body is producing a lot of DHEA, and

I am sweating out a lot of its waste products (pheromones). The hits are a lot better than when using synthetic

pheromones.

For the mad scientists out there, this could be very interesting in investigating the connection

between DHEA, and synthetic none use:

http://vitaminlady.com/BodyBalance/Stress.asp

[jvkohl]

Thanks for checking this further.

The increased DHEA in short term stress could make the pheromone signature of a stressed alpha male more masculine.

A sort of fight or flight response that would indicate reproductive fitness if the choice was to stay and fight.

Women could be expected to show more interest. However, in a series of lost fights one could expect the male

pheromone signature to become less masculine with the increased cortisol and decreased DHEA, which would be a subtle

way for his scent to reflect that he was a loser: less reproductively fit.



JVK

[Tiger4]

I have noticed by best

and most obvious hits from natural pheromones alone (really the only hits I can chalk up to being a result of

natural pheromones) occur within 24 hours of being through a situation in which:

a) there was a period of

extreme stress
b) I was sweating alot
c) no showering occured until after the stress was over

I have had

amazing hits from this. The situations were all not ones I would wish on anyone, and I looked like shit in all of

them. I am posting this today because a woman in a store litterally froze for about five seconds and went into DIHL

despite the fact that I hadn't worn any synthetic mones in over a week.

The same thing has

happened to me a number of times. I remember one time in particular when I was in school... I just found out that I

failed an exam and would have to retake a course. I really felt like crap and was angry at the world and everybody

in it. That day in a coffee shop, a drop dead gorgeous woman with shoulder length blond hair walked past me smiling

like I was a celebrity saying: "hi, how and you doing today!?" with bedroom eyes. I was so pissed off over what

happened to me that day that I ignored her. She sat down by herself and looked like she was dying for me

to sit next to her. It was like her eyes were stuck on me.

I think the body does produce more pheromones when

we are under stress so we should diffinately be mindful of these moments and try to use them to our advantage.

[Tiger4]

[QUOTE=jvkohl]Thanks for checking

this further. The increased DHEA in short term stress could make the pheromone signature of a stressed alpha male

more masculine. A sort of fight or flight response that would indicate reproductive fitness if the choice was to

stay and fight. Women could be expected to show more interest. However, in a series of lost fights one could expect

the male pheromone signature to become less masculine with the increased ... cortisol and decreased DHEA, which

would be a subtle way for his scent to reflect that he was a loser: less reproductively fit.



JVK
[/QUOTE]

I don't know, but it seems as

though it matters less whether or not he was the loser than his overall MHC signature and how different that is from

the female who smells him. A man in tip top physical condition could have string of losing fights. Yet a man in

poor physical condition could have a good record knocking people out in tough man contests. The man who is in poor

physical condition is obviously not the one who's more reproductively fit.

[bjf]

He was more so talking under perfect

conditions.

Yea, you would have instances where alpha and beta males were mixed up by women - you can even

have stress under flight conditions, although under perfect conditions, the idea is that flight is a choice to

escape a stressful situation for a less stressful one.

It is flawed short term because the DHEA increase

isn't to show who the more reproductively fit man is, it is for the purposes of dealing with the stress. The rest

is just a byproduct. In the long term though, the more reproductively fit man will have more DHEA, and evolution

tends to point us in the "on average" direction when looking for the staples of successful human

beings.


Good post on the test story, it certainly feels odd to have women oggling over you after dealing

with negative situations.

[CptKipling]

I think we linked adrenalin to

a spike in pheromone production and release (a few studies use an adrenalin injection as a primer to allow samples

of sweat to be taken).

I'm confident that short term stress does prime the body for fight or flight, and

indicates a "challenge".

[SweetBrenda]

I think we linked adrenalin to a spike in pheromone production and release (a few studies use an adrenalin injection as a primer to allow samples of sweat to be taken).

I'm confident that short term stress does prime the body for fight or flight, and indicates a "challenge".

I Think you're very correct Cptkipling.

[bjf]

Interesting! Thanks,

cpting.

I'm pretty sure my cases weren't a result of a prior adrenaline release. I never felt any rushes

during my times of stress, their were no immediate choices or ends in sight to the situation, my heart rate did not

increase, and my mind and my awareness seemed to drift into space rather than increase in alertness. I guess that

is because my stresses were not related to fight or flight situations as neither of those options would have ended

the stress.

[CptKipling]

Yeah, I suppose there are

diffenent types of stress.

iirc, we suspected that the adrenalin led to an unnaturally high -none level, which

led me to suspect that -none is in fact a fight or flight pheromone. We should also not forget that feelings of

excitment (such as lust) and doing something like engaging in foreplay can cause an adrenalin release.

[jvkohl]

A man in tip top

physical condition could have string of losing fights. Yet a man in poor physical condition could have a good

record knocking people out in tough man contests. The man who is in poor physical condition is obviously not the

one who's more reproductively fit.

I've been placed in situations where I went up against men who

would appear to be more reproductively fit than I am (taller/bigger and probably stronger). Still, I never got too

stressed since most signs of aggression typically don't result in physical fighting. Only rarely has a situation

become violent. Knowledge that I can do well in a fight (I've had enough martial arts training) might have been

sufficient to help ensure things didn't escalate. Like dogs, humans can smell fear, and when an opponent doesn't

find you to be fearfull, he's more apt to have second thoughts, and possibly become more stressed. An adrenal

response happens very quickly. Additionally, martial arts training ensures that you are always aware an opponent

could be better trained, or in better condition at the time of the encounter. I'm sure that's why I won't be the

one to escalate any encounter, even though I typically won't back down. Most of all though, I try to avoid

situations with a likelihood of confrontation. Only problem is biker bars when most of the others are drunk (and

some are obnoxious).

JVK

[bjf]

OK, I think I know what is

happening:

"The normal reaction of the body to stress is to produce greater quantities of both cortisol and

DHEA. When the stress is gone, the body reduces its output of cortisol and DHEA to resting levels and everything is

fine. This is what happens with short episodes of stress. However, when the stress is prolonged, the body prefers to

make increasingly greater amounts of cortisol and less DHEA. How long does it take for this to occur? One study

showed that after just 28 days of continuous stress, cortisol levels had climbed to 240 percent of starting values

and DHEA had dropped to 15 percent of initial levels!"


Basically my body is producing a lot of DHEA, and

I am sweating out a lot of its waste products (pheromones). The hits are a lot better than when using synthetic

pheromones.

For the mad scientists out there, this could be very interesting in investigating the connection

between DHEA, and synthetic none

use:

http://vitaminlady.com/BodyBalance/Stress.asp

Was reading this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playof...ory?id=1965467

in which jets coach herm edwards

says:

"Generally when guys get sick they have good games," said Edwards, who also is under the weather. "I

thought one time Michael Jordan got sick and he had, what, 100 points or something like that? Maybe that's a good

sign when guys get sick."

This is very true...hardcore sports fans will tell you this. I don't think anyone

quite understood it.

Reading the article tonight and then remember this thread, I guess it makes sense.

Increase in DHEA ---> more testosterone, better performance?