First week of SOE

[Indigo]

My god this is al so

confusing! different quatities of different produicts to produce diffrent results, combinations, -no -none -rone,

over 30's mones under thirties mones, social, agressive, aplha male chatty...where does it all end! I have

perception and chikara and haven't had much luck yet, could it now be the amoutns im applying which are effecting

my lack of success? I'm only 23 and want to attract girls of my own age, i thought buying NPA might help but now

that seems like a bad idea. so many people say -none is the sexual mone but now you say that it has to be mixed with

something else for it to work well?? I counting the individual percentages of each pheromone to get an exact

combination?! Man I am so lost and confused.


Has anyone got simple answer to all this? Is there like a

default application than tends to work well? Or are there any under thirties who have found a combination and amount

that seems to work ok?

Cheers guys,

Lucid

I will try to reduce your confusion:

First of all

Chikara and Perception are good standalone products to start with as they both contain well rounded formulas of all

pheromones!
What makes NPA resp. TE so potent is not the -none but the secret ingredient. It is definitely worth a

try ( use it together with Chikara ), but you have to be careful with it as a beginner. My first mixture with 0.1ml

of TE was a total OD for me.
At first you should learn to use the products you already have properly. They are

very good and should bring you noticable results.

There are several reasons why you could not have been

successful:

1. You expected too much or the wrong things ( less likely ).

2. You didn't observe people's

reactions accurately ( the most made mistake of beginners )
Mmmmh, perhaps I should listen to my own advice !



3. You didn't find out the right dosage for you.

About 1:
Expect nothing, just observe your environment

and the people around you carefully!

About 2:
Read some posts about body language from Friendly1. He gives very

good and detailed advice what to look for like hair twirling, touching you when communicating, looking into your

eyes etc. !

About 3:
Perception can easily be overdosed. For some people 2 sprays were an OD and 1 spray the

optimum. So start with one spray or 2-3 dabs and watch the reactions over a few weeks and then increase the dosage

step by step when you don't see any difference!
Chikara seems do make people much more talkative. I got clear

results from 0.1 ml of the product ( around 1.5 full sprays of the actual batch with matt sprayer head resp. 3

sprays of the old batch bottles. Start with that and look what happens!

I hope that helps you a little bit



Best regards

Indigo

[DFL]

Has anyone got simple

answer to all this? Is there like a default application than tends to work well? Or are there any under thirties who

have found a combination and amount that seems to work ok?

First off I will say that I have found the

"less is more" principle to apply when using pheromones. You will notice more consistent hits and positive

experiences if you don't over do it. The goal should be the least amount that exudes positive results. You can try

using a lesser amount of the products you currently have and experiment for a while with the products as

stand-alones. Personally, I have used AE with great results for the under 30 crowd, and have recently started using

SOE with great results also, for the same age group. I will state again though, that I didn't start to see positive

results until I backed down on the amount of pheromones I applied.

DFL

[TheViking]

Hey DFL

How much do you

use of SOE? Gel packs or spray thingie?

I'm trying the SOE gel packs right now, trying to find a good amount

for me. Think I need to read more about body language though.. hmm.

Well, any feedback on SOE usage is highly

appreciated, as all constructive feedback use to be

[DFL]

Viking-
I am using the roll on

application and am now using about 2 inches on both sides of my neck. Not a lot by most standards but I have

concluded that this is great for everyday use. I make sure to scrub my neck really well everyday when showering to

avoid any kind of build-up also.
As far as reading up on body language, I would highly recommend it so you know

what to look for and what constitutes a hit. I have just noticed recently through everyday use, that people seem to

come closer when in conversation, almost getting right up in my face. I actually had to take a step backward today

when talking to someone at work. This just started to happen, as I started to use SOE on a regular basis. I will

also note that I have used higher doses of this product, and still do at times but I think a smaller dose on a

regular basis produces more consistent reactions and will give you more opportunities to take advantage of. The last

statement pretty much sums up what I feel this product and pheromones in general are all about. They give you

opportunities to take advantage of in whatever way you choose to do so. It may be to break the ice with total

strangers or to create an ideal environment in a job interview or even give you added confidence in a social

situation. What you do with the situation is totally up to you though. I have had girls approach me in

clubs, which I contribute to the aura that the pheromones produce, but what happened after that was up to me.

Sometimes there is no common denominator between us and the conversation dies or I bore her with something she is

not interested in or vice versa. I definitely count it a hit when a female comes up to me and introduces herself,

but don't discard a situation like this as a hit if nothing comes out of it. take notes on the different reactions

people give you no matter how subtle. Also experiment with different amounts of products and make note of any

changes of behavior of others and also yourself.
DFL

[eric_pelletier_tw]

well im diverting here

on TE :P --> tried bigger dosage of TE & pass the chatyness barrier at bus stop.Got on to it,like 2-3 girls sat

close to me [i was standing] & one stood up in my back [rather back to back] very close on an almost empty bus [for

those who where standing] plenty of room there ... but after a while in the bus (<5 min) it was like pple shut up

all the sudden...?mones?

[applied +- 1/8 of a pack try it again...maybe more...]
So far thats all i realy

noted exept a few looks [i get more usualy ... strange...]
What about SoE ? next week ... got to find some ethanol

or somthing to dillute it ... [spray] im in canada where the hell am y going to find some 93% everclear...?

[BassMan]

...what I feel this

product and pheromones in general are all about. They give you opportunities to take advantage of in whatever way

you choose to do so. It may be to break the ice with total strangers or to create an ideal environment in a job

interview or even give you added confidence in a social situation. What you do with the situation is totally up to

you though. I have had girls approach me in clubs, which I contribute to the aura that the pheromones

produce, but what happened after that was up to me. Sometimes there is no common denominator between us and the

conversation dies or I bore her with something she is not interested in or vice versa. I definitely count it a hit

when a female comes up to me and introduces herself, but don't discard a situation like this as a hit if nothing

comes out of it. take notes on the different reactions people give you no matter how subtle.

That was

_very_ nicely put. It should be read by every newbie...

-Bass

[Indigo]

Viking-
I am using

the roll on application and am now using about 2 inches on both sides of my neck. Not a lot by most standards but I

have concluded that this is great for everyday use.DFL

Hello,

I read that 28 inches of SOE are 1ml. So

4 inches will give you a total amount of about 0.07mg (0.056mg nol plus 0.014mg rone) of mones.
I think that is

quite a amount isn't it?

Regards

Indigo

[InternationalPlayboy]

I have

just noticed recently through everyday use, that people seem to come closer when in conversation, almost getting

right up in my face. I actually had to take a step backward today when talking to someone at work.

I've noticed with SOE that people invade my space while standing in line. As it's been mostly

adolescent boys and a few men , it's very uncomfortable. I'll move away and they'll move back in again. If

it's a female, I sometimes won't move away, depending on the specific instance, as I don't mind it as much.

[DrSmellThis]

Lucid, Chikara and Perception

are two good products to start with. Either one would have been a good first purchase.

The best advice is to

start small and slowly work your way up. Dosage on Chikara depends on which version you have, so if you want to get

the most out of what you have first (a good idea) I would keep the Perception to one spray only and just vary the

Chikara until you get that puzzle solved for yourself (starting with one spray of Chikara and working your way up).



Once you figure out the best doses of what you have over time (-- where you tend to notice the best reactions

from others. Remember, there's no such thing as "no reaction" from others. People are always reacting in some way

to you, and it's just a matter of getting in touch with when they react the best and/or the worst on the average.)

then you can think about adding Edge, Pheros, or A1 (those would be the three I'd try, because they

cover all the "bases" together with Chikara and Perception.) But you always start with what you already have.



Add only one product at a time, after you get a sense for the others, and let us know when you're trying

something new, and what you're putting on; so we can give you extra information as you need it.

When you add a

new product at the smallest dose you may have to reduce something else. This gives you two changes to keep track of

at that point. So keep everything simple as I've suggested and you'll be able to choose your path according to

your successes and "failures" with each product to that point.

Think mainly in terms of having a certain amount

of pheromones on, rather than in terms of products; to keep the big picture in mind as you learn more about what

they all do. You don't have to have exact numbers to do this.

[watcher27944]

Hello DrSmellThis, a

question if I may, Do you use the Chikara and the Perception at the same time?.

[DrSmellThis]

I just explained that.

[watcher27944]

Sorry I have the chikara

and the perception is on the way and I am looking foreward to trying it, but I want to get it right.
Thank You

for all your good advice here.

[DFL]

I've

noticed with SOE that people invade my space while standing in line. As it's been mostly adolescent boys and a few

men , it's very uncomfortable. I'll move away and they'll move back in again. If it's a female, I sometimes

won't move away, depending on the specific instance, as I don't mind it as much.

Very interesting IP. In

my case it has been mostly females but in work situations so nothing to pursue. I have just started to notice this

so if it happens in a club situation I'm sure it will be a positive sign to make a move on.
DFL

[Lucid]

Thank you for the replies

everyone, especially indigo and drsmellthis. I will heed your advice and take it slow. I started with two sprays of

perception originally which could be an OD for me so it seems. I guess it is time and experience now that I need

rather than an assortment of products. I'll keep you all posted of my experimentation and experiences to come.




Thanks again,

Lucid

[LiteMeUP]

well eric what happened ? did

you get any hits ??? I hate when people just leave a thread hanging. I think rule of thumb should be you start a

thread you should also end a thread with thanks and a conclusion I've seen a lot of threads here with someone

asking for advice and then never telling how it eventually panned out. at least come back 3 months later or 2 weeks

later and say i give up.. or come back 1 week later or 6 months later and say it Worked thanks for the advice or

thanks for the advice but it worked when i did this instead... etc..

just my two cents

[Sparky]

I just read the thread and I

guess i'm lil late.

I'm 20 , so almost Lucid's age. MY targets are between 16-20, and I got confused as I

didnt know which mones I shoud order. According to what others say nol and rone is good for younger girls. But still

i'm not sure if nole and rone will do the job. Or in addition, what will happen if i use a combo of SOE+NPA when

dealing with 18 year old girls?
NPA has a lot none, so do you guys consider that a good idea or not?

@lucid:

Chikara worked for me in past, so i think I should work for you too, were almost same age....

[gfunk]

Simple answer? NO! That's why

there are so many posts in here! )

AE and SOE is great starter products that will most likely give you great

results!

[tim929]

Has anyone got simple

answer to all this? Is there like a default application than tends to work well? Or are there any under thirties who

have found a combination and amount that seems to work ok?

IMHO SoE is a great place to start.I

recently got my gel packs and used some over the course of the last couple days.Wonderful results in terms of what

it does for my own mood and the way I feel.Better than that,I have had a couple of very nice contacts with women and

fair reactions from men.The SoE/m has a very mild pleasant scent with very little risk of overdose.From there its

all just a mater of of having a good time trying it out in different situations.Some folks get great results from

it...others feel the need to modify it or use something different altogether...but dont let it overwhelm you...it's

alot of fun and you get to learn all about things that most people dont realize are important.And if you hang out

around here and read what people have to say...the sky is the limit.

[OCP]

I know several women

who can detect the -nol/rone combination as being similar to fresh sweat and each has made positive comments about

it. Women have a better olfactory acuity and specificity for male pheromones, which explains why most men will

detect no odor. My current lover detects the -nol in SOE women as readily as she detects it in SOE men and SOE

unscented. She doesn't like SOE women because to her it smells too masculine--though I have never heard this

comment from anyone else. I recently started using a dab of SOE women on my pillow at night, since she won't wear

it. So far it seems to have very positive effects on my libido, as would be expected from the associated

testosterone increase.

JVK

JVK, I am curious and I have wondered about this for a long time.

Do you use anything besides SOE. If so, then is it based upon a particular situation? I ask this because you put

SOE together and you must feel it is THE correct combination to get results.

[jvkohl]

JVK, I am curious and I

have wondered about this for a long time. Do you use anything besides SOE. If so, then is it based upon a

particular situation? I ask this because you put SOE together and you must feel it is THE correct combination to

get results.

I'm convinced that SoE is best for all situations; I'm 53 y/o and get plenty of

attention from women who are much younger, as well as those who are closer to my age. From the waitress who moves in

a little closer to take my order, to the woman I've just tried to attract by standing next to her for a minute--my

success speaks for itself (and also against the likelihood of any long-term relationship). Since I'm not looking

for anything permanent at this point, I'm enjoying the variety.

Women who I become intimate with will use

SoE/w because they know I like it, and they like what it does for me/to them. Besides, they get free sample packs. I

don't say much about either product at work, but when I do, most women will ask for samples--I give them both SoE

and SoE/w and about 50% will order a bottle of one or the other. It's somewhat interesting when I tell a woman that

copulins (like in SoE/w) have been shown to increase testosterone levels in men up to 150%. Almost every one of them

replies: "He doesn't need that." I just tell them to use it on a special occassion, when they want his full

attention (at a party, or other social gathering). Still, I wonder how all these women can be so sure their lover

doesn't need the increase in testosterone. Maybe they need to have their lover use SoE so that their level of

desire matches the lover's level of desire.

JVK

[DrSmellThis]

Though SOE is a fine and

effective product by the vast majority of accounts, I'm not sure how much experience Mr. Kohl has with products

other than his own, judging from his previous forum comments.

What is true is that -nol products are better

"supported" by the publically available research -- which is only to say that there are more studies in general

about -nol than the other chemicals, including -rone (Maiworm conducted the best published study on -rone so far.).

A1 has a lot of research on it too, but much of it has been unavailable and not designed to fairly test practical

use. -None research has largely been irrelevant for addressing practical use questions. Beta -nol and other

pheromones are currently being considered for study.

We still have no idea -- from researchers that is -- what

happens when you wear -rone, A1, or judicious amounts of -none, much less the other pheromones.

That leaves the

love-scent forum -- not research -- as the best source of information on what "really works". There is absolutely no

reason to rely exclusively on formal research for making decisions about pheromone use at this stage of the game.

This is coming from a professional researcher.

Extensive anecdotal reports on the forum consistently suggest

that a variety of products work well; and further, that strategies of combining multiple products have often been

successful. Also, anecdotal reports indicate clearly that -none is an effective pheromone. No published study was

conducted well enough to contradict the (thus far) superior anecdotal data on -none. Reports also suggest that SOE

would be an appropriate choice for the young man that started the thread. That does not mean various other products

wouldn't work well too.

[bjf]

Doc, I completely agree, although I

do have to say that the none thing isn't clear cut.

Any of the none only prducts aren't really the best

ones. They seem to work on a limited amount of people, or only low doses.

Now there is no question NPA and

TE get women hot, but that is only 1/2 none of course.

Keep in mind, when a human is using low levels of a

none only product and it does work out, it is accompanied by their own natural pheromones.

On its own (with

no other mones present, natural or synthetic), I really do question whether women can like it, even at low levels.

Maybe some rare ones with the right conditioning

I figure none is no different than salt or most other

spices. It is a complement, but not the dish. It adds a lot, no doubt, and a little bit of fear is part of what

women find sexy.

So does none work because how it lights up the brain, or the emotional effects it envokes,

or the hormonal response it creates? The latter seems unlikely, the first two seem the better answer. Still, I am

not sure how it works for our benefit, but it definitely is an important ingredient for a mixture.

[DrSmellThis]

Yep. The situation is more

complex with -none, as you have suggested. But forum reports suggest it is very effective in various practical

applications. That's all we need to know about using the stuff, for now, IMO.

I hope researchers will get off

their asses and help us by engaging in more practically relevant research for the science of attraction.

In this

light, it is way too early to rule out/discount likely hormonal effects for -none and the other pheromones. The fact

that hormonal change has been established for -nol is logically irrelevant for asking about whether the others might

have something like that demonstrated for them when people get around to studying it. I'd be shocked if such

effects were not demonstrated some day (I'll arrange it tomorrow if someone would like to pay me a reasonable

amount to design the studies).

[bjf]

But forum reports

suggest it is very effective in various practical applications. That's all we need to know about using the stuff,

for now, IMO.

Very true. It is impossible for a user to use none without coupling it with his

natural mones, so the questions about it alone certainly aren't relavent from a practical standpoint.

Of

course, if you enjoy the science, that's a different story.

I think there's been a lot more research out

there then we know, but the results are being protected by the private industry that are shielding their

intellectual property from competitors.

When there is $ to be made, those organizations always tend to do

more than the public efforts. And this forum certainly seems to be ahead of the public research out there. The

biggest shame is that researchers don't appreciate that, or use us as a resource.

[DrSmellThis]

Some of them do follow the

forums, and I believe we have already influenced the industry to some extent. We are basically unpaid consultants.



But you are correct that there is much more research out there than we can know about, especially in the

perfuming industry.

[jvkohl]

Though SOE is a

fine and effective product by the vast majority of accounts, I'm not sure how much experience Mr. Kohl has with

products other than his own, judging from his previous forum comments.

That's correct; I've never

worn another product, which is why my comments have only been on SoE. The -nol link to increased LH, and the

axillary odor link to increased LH and mood seem likely to be the same. However, scientific studies support only

separate statements: -nol increases LH; axillary secretions increase LH and elevate mood. I think Preti and Wysocki

mentioned that the LH change might one day be used to define "pheromone." But DrSmellThis is correct to note

anecdotal evidence, as well as unknown evidence. I think works in progress that are designed to image the effect of

putative pheromones on a particular area of the hypothalamus--one associated both with GnRH/LH production and with

sexual orientation, also will help define "pheromone."

JVK

[DrSmellThis]

"Pheromones" are interspecies chemical communication, only part of which is for the purpose

of enabling the act of mating. On the other hand, nature also communicates with us in countless ways through

olfaction, such that the term "pheromone" could logically be extended to the rest of nature. We need a bit better

language here.

Though speculation about how researchers might define things is very interesting, and although LH

change has been used in mammalian biology, it would be wrongheaded for them to use LH as the indicator at this

point. That is because meaningful effect sizes for LH changes have not been established in humans; among other

reasons.

Since "a pheromone is as a pheromone does", the ultimate indicator of whether something is a pheromone

is a meaningful, systematic change in behavior or experience following exposure to the pheromone, whether alone or

in some context.

The neuroimaging research methods are indeed promising and exciting. The recent A1 "social

cognition" study is a prime example. However, we do need some exploratory (as contrasted with "confirmatory") work

here, to avoid limiting looks to inappropriately predetermined, overly-limited areas of the brain. This

investigative reductionism would fly against the general findings of neurology, which strongly suggest multiple

brain-areas are involved in most actions or experiences (The "does" of "a pheromone is as a

pheromone does"). Researchers have not been attentive to this scientific need so far, and are therefore

defeating their own curiousity about what pheromones are and do.

If this research becomes more holistic in the

way I just mentioned, I'm all for it.

[Rbt]

Hello all,

I'm a real newbie to

all this, having just started this month experimenting with pheromone products. These notes and discussions are

indeed helpful, but as has been said, confusing (as would most anything that deals with as many variables as "human

chemistry" in many senses of the phrase).

One observation I would like to mention is my own recent experiences.

I picked up the "sample" gel assortment and just happend more by chance than design to use SOE (scented) as my first

"test run." And yes, I've started out with small doses (I figure I'm going to get about 6 uses from the packet).



I don't get out much due to my schedule at the moment, so I only had a few "targets" to use for observation of

reactions. As it was I ran into the same two women in my first three trys. One older woman (about 60) didn't seem

to react much at all on any of the days. The younger woman (about 35) was more chatty than usual on Day 1 (a

Friday), a "cold fish" Day 2 (the next day, Saturday), but relatively chatty on the third day I wore SOE (Monday.

Did not wear SOE or see younger woman on Sunday). (FYI I'm mid-50's).

I was a little mystifyed by this change

in reactions, until I judiciously inquired as to her activities on those days. Seems that Saturday she was quite

tied up with a work project that was taking much of her attention. End conclusion based on this, granted limited,

evidence is that your "target's" mood and inclination (ie the specific person or "general" persons you are hoping

to influence by wearing the product) is going to affect your results as well as all the many other factors you need

to take into account in figuring "hits" (success rates) of the products and concentrations/amounts you try.

Ah,

if it was only easier... Three more gel packs to try...

[Rbt]

Ouick follow up on SOE:



I

tried the gel packs and liked the overall ecent and "feeling" of SOE so I invested in a bottle of the roll-on

product. Personally I think I like the roll-on a little better in terms of being able to do a more consistant

measurement of "dose"/application amount.



I've tried SOE roll-on for a couple of days now. In terms of

"hits," I really haven't seen many as yet. of course it's still early in the trials and I've only been near maybe

a dozen women of all ages. I *did* get a discount of my to-go order at the Chinese restaurant and I *think* the

20-ish women behind me may have given this 50+ year-old fart an extra glance (but it may have been wishful

thinking... but I'll take what I can get!)

I think SOE is going to become my "standard" everyday product, at

least for now. I may juice it up with a (very) little NPA for "date nights." Here's hoping.