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  1. #331
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Once someone

    commits a terrorist act, they get what\'s coming to them. What does \"negotiate\" mean? In general you negotiate

    when you stand to get something out of it. We were willing to sort of negotiate with the Taliban when we thought

    they might turn Bin Laden over. It\'s all very pragmatic, cold and calculated. Terrorists have useful information,

    and are a symptom of something bigger that we need to understand. Terrorist psychology is an important source of

    information. You don\'t make concessions to terrorists, per se. You try to understand where they are coming

    from, as much as possible (It\'s not just, <robotic voice>\"I am evil, boom boom!\"). In general

    you act with integrity regardless of what terrorists want. The \"integrity card\" trumps the \"non-concession

    card\", when and if value conflicts should occur. It would be a bit immature and morally sloppy to just see what

    they want first, and then do the opposite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] If integrity means

    giving understanding and justice to Muslim folk, as well as Israelis, well then it does. It would be horribly

    embarrasing indeed to realize some moral duty only after a terrorist reminded you, hypothetically speaking. That

    would represent a pretty big moral failure. But two wrongs would never make a right.

    Freedom is freedom to do

    the best thing. If we let terrorists unwittingly kill our souls, our moral freedom, what would we have left to

    protect?

  2. #332
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Once someone commits a terrorist act, they get

    what\'s coming to them. What does \"negotiate\" mean? In general you negotiate when you stand to get something

    out of it. We were willing to sort of negotiate with the Taliban when we thought they might turn Bin Laden over.

    It\'s all very pragmatic, cold and calculated. Terrorists have useful information, and are a symptom of something

    bigger that we need to understand. Terrorist psychology is an important source of information. You don\'t make

    concessions to terrorists, per se. You try to understand where they are coming from, as much as possible

    (It\'s not just, &lt;robotic voice&gt;\"I am evil, boom boom!\"). In general you act with integrity

    regardless of what terrorists want. The \"integrity card\" trumps the \"non-concession card\", when and if value

    conflicts should occur. It would be a bit immature and morally sloppy to just see what they want first, and then do

    the opposite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] If integrity means giving understanding and justice

    to Muslim folk, as well as Israelis, well then it does. It would be horribly embarrasing indeed to realize some

    moral duty only after a terrorist reminded you, hypothetically speaking. That would represent a pretty big moral

    failure. But two wrongs would never make a right.

    Freedom is freedom to do the best thing. If we let terrorists

    unwittingly kill our souls, our moral freedom, what would we have left to protect?

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Excellent Post!

  3. #333
    Phero Dude DZorro's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Once someone commits a terrorist act, they get

    what\'s coming to them. What does \"negotiate\" mean? In general you negotiate when you stand to get something

    out of it. We were willing to sort of negotiate with the Taliban when we thought they might turn Bin Laden over.

    It\'s all very pragmatic, cold and calculated. Terrorists have useful information, and are a symptom of something

    bigger that we need to understand. Terrorist psychology is an important source of information. You don\'t make

    concessions to terrorists, per se. You try to understand where they are coming from, as much as possible

    (It\'s not just, &lt;robotic voice&gt;\"I am evil, boom boom!\"). In general you act with integrity

    regardless of what terrorists want. The \"integrity card\" trumps the \"non-concession card\", when and if value

    conflicts should occur. It would be a bit immature and morally sloppy to just see what they want first, and then do

    the opposite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] If integrity means giving understanding and justice

    to Muslim folk, as well as Israelis, well then it does. It would be horribly embarrasing indeed to realize some

    moral duty only after a terrorist reminded you, hypothetically speaking. That would represent a pretty big moral

    failure. But two wrongs would never make a right.

    Freedom is freedom to do the best thing. If we let terrorists

    unwittingly kill our souls, our moral freedom, what would we have left to protect?

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    just like you said the ( price of freedom is eternal vigilance

    ).

    DZorro,

  4. #334
    Phero Dude DZorro's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    you always have to

    keep your guard up when freedom is concern, and never falter.

    DZorro,

  5. #335
    Man of La Pancha
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    Default Re: London calling

    Perspective is

    everything...

    Everything is perspective. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  6. #336
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    Default Re: London calling

    Hey Pancho when is

    your new single coming out? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    Don\'t you belong to that Muslim

    Extremist hip-hop group known as \"Suicide Bombing Brothers\"? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]



    Everyone kick Pancho\'s ass.....BBB get him good. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #337
    Phero Dude DZorro's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Hey Pancho when is your new single coming out?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    Don\'t you belong to that Muslim Extremist hip-hop group known

    as \"Suicide Bombing Brothers\"? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    Everyone kick Pancho\'s

    ass.....BBB get him good. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Bad bad pancho [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] kick kick slam

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    DZorro,

  8. #338
    Man of La Pancha
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    Default Re: London calling

    I think, by

    definition, the Suicide Bombing Brothers\' first hit would be their last...

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    *groans from all over the world unite*

    Seriously, though,

    the group broke up since career projects took them in separate directions. They will, however, reunite on the

    occasional holiday...

    If you\'re looking for solo work, well...if someone actually enjoyed anything I\'ve

    ever made, I\'d probably make another one.............draw your own conclusions.........

  9. #339
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    Default Re: London calling

    I am dying to hear

    another song from SBB....in the next song can you blow up at the end, that would be amazing!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] You guys were so good, I loved the debut \"Dropping Bombs on

    yo\' ass\" and \"Put that veil back on hoe\"

    I can\'t wait to hear more keep up the good work Pancho, much

    suppport.

  10. #340
    Journeyman
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    Default Re: London calling -

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I was just trying to make a point to

    thingscouldbe, that these terrorists can\'t be negotiate with, like he said in his previous posts

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I NEVER EVER said that and never would!!! This is dumb, sorry... AND the

    post you\'re actually refering to was explained already like 3 times by myself and even Doc...

    Are you starting

    to make up stuff now to get back at me?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    OK, you beat me: All

    Muslims are evil and should be hunted down for being potential terrorists!!! Happy now?? Well, how would you want to

    differentiate a terrorist from a plain muslim?? I see that now and that\'s why I converted to your believes!

  11. #341
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling -



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Are you starting to make up stuff now to get back

    at me??

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Sounds like a fun thing to do. Why the heck not!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
    Why did you say that we should start giving terrorists half of our

    paychecks??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

  12. #342
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling -

    thingscouldwork....are you serious when you say we should start handing out free tickets to Broadway musicals for

    all terrorists that promise to behave??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    That is the stupidest

    idea I have heard as of yet!




  13. #343
    Banned User EXIT63's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling -

    Did somebdy say they

    were giving out free tickets to Fiddler on the Roof?! I am SO there!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  14. #344
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling -

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Did somebdy say they were giving out free tickets

    to Fiddler on the Roof?! I am SO there! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    No...it\'s only free if you are a terrorist.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

  15. #345
    Sadhu
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    Default Re: London calling -



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Why did you say that we should start giving

    terrorists half of our paychecks???


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> must have missed that post

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

  16. #346
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling -



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    must have missed that post

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Thingscouldwork suggested it along with spa treatments and free

    manicures.

  17. #347
    Journeyman
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    Default Re: London calling -

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Thingscouldwork suggested it along with spa

    treatments and free manicures.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Not only that!! Free lodging and

    the possibility of a career in the Delta Force!! If they have to be trained, at least make it descent!!!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  18. #348
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    Default Re: London calling -

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    must have missed that post

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



    Thingscouldwork suggested it along with spa treatments and free manicures.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">



    And a puppy! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  19. #349
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: London calling

    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Perspective is everything...

    Everything is perspective.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    That is SOOOOO

    Zen!

  20. #350
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    Default Re: London calling

    Personally I say

    you give every terrorist a Michael Bolton CD, if that doesn\'t turn their frown upside down nothing will...if

    anything else it is worthy for some pain.

    For all you other Bolotonholics out there you know what I mean.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  21. #351
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    Default Re: London calling

    \"Said I loved

    you, but I lied\" (great song) is the type of two faced behavior that one sees with terrorist....you see everything

    is relevant [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    I\'m in the grey zone baby!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  22. #352
    Phero Dude DZorro's Avatar
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    Default Re: London calling

    knock knock, who\'s

    there ??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]



    DZorro,

  23. #353
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    This is an editorial I read a couple days ago. It brought up a point I hadn\'t considered. If this was an

    al-quaeda attack, and it seems more and more that it was, then Spain may have inadvertently set its neighbors up for

    similar pre-election hits. That includes the US.


    THE SPANISH DISEASE



    The reign in Spain died mainly on

    the train. I apologize for a silly, but irresistible, opening to a deadly and portentous topic: the electoral fall

    of our ally Jose Maria Aznar\'s Popular Party in the aftermath of a presumed Al Qaeda terrorist assault on a

    Madrid train.

    The Spanish electorate decided to defeat its government for seeming to bring Islamist terrorist

    slaughter to Spain. It is true that a large majority of Spaniards never supported their government\'s decision to

    send troops to Iraq. Nonetheless, the day before the terrorist attack, every Spanish poll and political expert

    predicted a solid win for Aznar\'s party.

    But after the attack, about three million Spanish voters changed

    their impending electoral decision. Thus, their vote was not out of anger at Aznar\'s policy but out of fear of

    the terrorists\' wrath. And so we are returned to Winston Churchill\'s lamentation about avoiding crocodiles.



    On Jan. 20, 1940, four months after Hitler invaded Poland, Churchill gave a world address to urge the neutral

    nations of Europe to abandon appeasement and rally round the Union Jack and the French Tricolor (France was still in

    the fight then) as the surest path to safety against the Nazi onslaught: \"At present their (the neutrals) plight

    is lamentable; and it will become much worse. They bow humbly and in fear of German threats &amp;#8230; Each one

    hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last. All of them hope that the storm will

    pass before their turn comes to be devoured. But I fear -- I fear greatly -- the storm will not pass. It will rage

    and it will roar, ever more loudly, ever more widely.\" The European neutrals, however, continued to appease --

    until, in the spring, they were devoured.

    Appeasers are likely to underestimate the price of appeasement. They

    always assume that peace and tranquility are available at some price. But the crocodile doesn\'t want a finger or

    a toe -- he wants the whole carcass.

    The Spanish voters\' fear is understandable. But not only have they not

    saved themselves from further harvest by the Saracen scimitar, they also have increased the likelihood and advanced

    the arrival of similar slaughters for their cousins in the streets of Europe and America. It is hard not to assume

    that within the Al Qaeda war councils, advocates of pre-election terror attacks have gained a fearsome advantage.



    But notwithstanding the evidence of the terrorists\' unlimited objectives, the verisimilitude of logic that

    appeasement offers the fearful remains comforting -- if falsely so. Appeasement has an awful, seeming logic to it

    because we all practice appeasement every day -- with our spouses, our children, our bosses, etc. Interlocutors with

    limited goals are often usefully appeased if the cost of conflict is more than the cost of appeasement (\"Yes,

    dear, I\'ll be glad to clean up the garage\").

    And when the cost of non-appeasement (i.e., the decision to

    fight) is very high, we are strongly motivated to assume our opponent has limited demands -- in order for the

    cost-benefit calculus to continue to lead us to the comforting appeasement option. I have little doubt but that,

    since the Spanish election returns, politicians across the globe have become tempted to harvest such votes of fear,

    because the politicians themselves are suffering under the same false calculus of cost/benefit.

    Now we must wait

    and see which other Western electorates might succumb to the Spanish disease. It would be easy, and comforting, to

    assume that Americans will be resistant. After all, we are renowned for our unflinching instinct to rally round the

    flag when American blood has been spilled. But the Spaniard, too, is renowned for his courage -- at least as an

    individual.

    It is only by the vigor and pride of a nation\'s collective body politic that it may be immune to

    the disease of appeasement. In the coming months and years, America, Britain, Poland Australia and other countries

    will all be tested.

    Already, millions of Americans have put the war on terrorism out of mind -- content to

    express support for politicians whose terrorism policy is largely to turn it over to the United Nations and the

    Interpol. President Bush is mocked by comedians and Washington journalists alike for the assertion that he is a

    wartime president. Anyone who thinks that is funny doesn\'t think there is a war. For a threat so minimized, we

    need not pay the high price of eternal vigilance. There is probably about a four in 10 chance that the American

    electorate will come down with the Spanish disease this November.

    Eventually, of course, as the genocidal nature

    of the Islamist fury becomes manifest even to the most obtuse, all will rally to the resistance -- as eventually

    they did in occupied Europe against Hitler. The question that remains is how many more must die before the maximum

    war-fighting effort is mounted by the united civilized nations.

    Tony Blankley is editorial page editor of The

    Washington Times. To find out more about Tony Blankley and read his past columns, visit the Creators Syndicate Web

    page at www.creators.com.


  24. #354
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    Yes, I

    think it was USD and I that both mentioned that in this thread. Spain sent a clear message to Al -quaeda and other

    terrorist groups, that terrorism works. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    That\'s why I said it

    would never have happened in the US. I really believe that. After 9/11 we fought back with a vengeance against

    terrorism and if it were to happen to us before elections we would go for the voice that spoke the loudest against

    terrorism.

  25. #355
    Journeyman
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    But after the attack, about three

    million Spanish voters changed their impending electoral decision. Thus, their vote was not out of anger at

    Aznar\'s policy but out of fear of the terrorists\' wrath. And so we are returned to Winston Churchill\'s

    lamentation about avoiding crocodiles.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Jep, just what I thought

    to myself as it happened... I recon we might see more terrorist attacks specifically targeted to change election

    results to a \"anti-Bush/Iraq-War\" Party...

  26. #356
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    I took your comments (iirc) to mean that Al-quaeda would get the idea it would be able to walk over countries that

    caved in that way. It didn\'t occur to me (unless I read you wrong and missed you saying it) that they might start

    planning to hit other countries on the eve of elections.

  27. #357
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes, I think it was USD and I that both mentioned

    that in this thread. Spain sent a clear message to Al -quaeda and other terrorist groups, that terrorism works.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    That\'s why I said it would never have happened in the US. I

    really believe that. After 9/11 we fought back with a vengeance against terrorism and if it were to happen to us

    before elections we would go for the voice that spoke the loudest against terrorism.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    What really worries me is if people will really know which voice will speak the loudest.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

  28. #358
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    Yes, I

    said I fear that England is next.

  29. #359
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes, I think it was USD and I that both mentioned that in this thread. Spain

    sent a clear message to Al -quaeda and other terrorist groups, that terrorism works.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    That\'s why I said it would never have happened in the US. I

    really believe that. After 9/11 we fought back with a vengeance against terrorism and if it were to happen to us

    before elections we would go for the voice that spoke the loudest against terrorism.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    What really worries me is if people will really know which voice will speak the loudest.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    You should be

    worried. This is our world.

  30. #360
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    Default Re: Sorry to keep this going but...

    Woooooo, after thinking about it, I kind of look forward to dying and leaving this freak show, crap infested,

    wrong, unjust, hypocritical, b/s World.

    I can\'t wait to talk to myself in my coffen and if someone wants to

    blow me up, it don\'t matter I am dead...yeaaaaaa! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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