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  1. #1
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Default Androstenone evaluation in a Japanese study

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...4.2005.00293.x

    Females

    evaluate androstenone itself
    as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
    for only females, androstenone

    enhances the
    intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
    constituents such as short-chain fatty

    acids.

    The full text is available from the URL provided.

    JVK

  2. #2
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    Default Japanese ~none Study?

    The

    Report posted by JVK in the Research forum

    says:

    "Schleidt et al. [4] did not find

    any difference between males and females from Germany and Italy in the degree of pleasantness to male body odor; but

    he did find sexual differentiation in Japan."

    And

    "The purpose of this study was to evaluate the degree of

    pleasantness felt by Japanese males and females to male body odor, and to discover whether male body odor is rated

    more unpleasant by females or by males.'

    Since we have already discussed the differences between the races and

    their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you

    think the reactions are more universal?
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  3. #3
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtnjim
    Since we have

    already discussed the differences between the races and their reactions to ~none, do you think that this verafies

    what we have been saying about Asians and ~None, or do you think the reactions are more universal?
    I

    think the reactions are more universal, as shown by many studies that indicate -none has consistently negative

    ratings, albeit when consciously perceived. However, since data also suggests that Asians produce less -none, this

    study supports the likelihood that due to less production, Asians may be more sensitive to it, and respond

    negatively when it is present is lesser concentrations. This speculation would correlate well with what Forum

    participants have reported in anecdotes.

    JVK

  4. #4
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    ...studies that

    indicate -none has consistently negative ratings, albeit when consciously perceived...
    My thoughts also.

    The above I have noted, but I think it is less negative in other than Asian, and especially less negative in

    ovulating women. I didn't have time to read far enough into the study to see if ovulating women were part of the

    study, and if there was a difference.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  5. #5
    Phero Dude
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    I wear none around asian women all

    the time and hardly notice any negative effects....I'd say the effects are quite positive.

    I think Americanized

    Asians respond more postively to none than those who either grew up in or are living in Asian countries....maybe how

    one percieves different pheromone signiatures is more an enculturated matter, rather than a biological one. It

    isn't uncommon to see asian american women dating outside of their own ethnicities nowadays, however, its pretty

    rare to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).

  6. #6
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    however, its pretty rare

    to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).
    I think

    this statement is generally true in North America and in Asia. However here in Hawaii it is actually very common to

    see White women with Asian men. I grew up in the Seattle area and most white women wouldn't even look at me. After

    moving to Honolulu I was shocked to discover white women were very interested and willing. Of course Honolulu is a

    melting pot and Whites are a minority here, so attitudes toward race are radically different than most of North

    America.

    Also, I can say White women liked me before I wore pheromones so I don't think NPA/TE changed that

    aspect. It merely seems to intensify and speed things up. Like Sigma, I'm probably a near 'noneless Asian male and

    can wear lots of NPA with few or no negative effects. Younger Asian women seem to be extra shy--even frightened at

    first--but quickly turn into wild horndogs once they get to know me and feel safe.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  7. #7
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    Default none

    there was a show on TV

    Sunday night, can't remember which - 20/20 or Dateline. During the part pertaining to the book "Freakonomics" it

    was purported that this author(s) could put a price on men based upon their race and then onto income. They had

    studied internet dating sites to come to their conclusions. So, it was said that a white woman would 84% of the

    time prefer to date a white man but that she would be willing to date a Hispanic male provided he made over $150,000

    per annum; a Black male over $185,000; and then finally she would date an Asian male making over $225,000.

    I

    found it hard to agree with the above given my own lifetime experiences. I've had plenty of women and never did I

    think that my income or race was a factor. I was thinking, in spite of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate

    my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It

    was always the woman, not her whatever.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  8. #8
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    I was thinking, in spite

    of my genetic predelictions, how would I rate my own self as desirous of any particular race and I reached the

    conclusion that I didn't have a preference. It was always the woman, not her whatever.
    I seem to go

    through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural

    and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my

    ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated

    a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.

    Although I was really horny, that got old fast.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  9. #9
    Phero Dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    I seem to go through

    stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and

    physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A

    huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple

    Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was

    really horny, that got old fast.
    I'm the same way. I've only seriously dated one filipino girl, and

    that was waaaaaay back in the day. The last few women I've dated have actually been of hispanic descent, and I've

    dated quite a few vietnamese girls in the past. Never did get with a white woman though. All in all though, I see

    myself settling with a filipino woman eventually, and have actually had more interest in them as of late.

  10. #10
    Phero Pharaoh
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    And yet, they still get

    excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I have

    unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just mixing

    it with SOE or Chikara.

    Surely more research is still being done with Androstenone?

  11. #11
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly1
    And yet, they

    still get excitable around us when we wear androstenone. Much as I respect your work and expertise in the field, I

    have unquestionably found The Edge to be an effective pheromone when masking it with a good cologne, or even just

    mixing it with SOE or Chikara.

    Surely more research is still being done with

    Androstenone?
    None that I know about, which includes forthcoming presentations at this year's

    Association for Chemoreception Sciences. I'll be attending the conference next week. The focus seems to have

    changed from androstenone to androstenol and androstadieone with regard to masculine appeal. Androsterone is a

    likely third given the interest already expressed by other researchers in what I've written in a forthcoming review

    article.

    I don't doubt the reports of positive responses to androstenone, even though they aren't supported

    by research or by the concept of human pheromones. However, since it is typically aversive, I suspect that positive

    reports are more likely associated with good combos, or something more associated with the power of suggestion

    rather than with measurable affects (like the LH response), or the more likely conditioned responses like those

    associated with androsterone.

    Besides, there will always be some women who have developed personal

    preferences for scent signatures that most others find aversive. For example, outlaw bikers with less than common

    personal hygeine still attract some women. Also, I was surprised by a close friend yesterday when she asked if I was

    wearing SoE/men, which I was. She said I smelled different, and she liked it better than normal. This was the only

    time I had been with her without showering within a few hours of our get together, and I had spent several hours

    working outside in 85 degree weather. I suspect it was the rather novel smell of androstenone (on me) that got her

    attention.

    JVK

  12. #12
    Phero Dude
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    Okay...on the race issue...I am a

    troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of me?
    "The wages of sin is death.But after taxes it's just sort of a tired feeling realy." -Ellen DeGeneres

  13. #13
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim929
    Okay...on the race

    issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of

    me?
    I've never met a troll in person and there is no data to support even minimal

    speculation. However, anecdotal information suggests that, as with many minorities, lack of familiarity with their

    odor may lead to negative hedonic judgements. If, for example, trolls produced an abundance of squalene (a putative

    pheromone in snakes) a woman's judgement of the troll's odor might lead her to state either that he is a snake, or

    that he smells like one. On the other hand, without thoughtfull judgement, a woman might just spot the troll and

    respond with something like "hey, look at that stinking troll." In such a case "stinking" is the operative

    descriptor, as it would be in other racial epithets. This does not mean that you stink; it simply means that some

    people might think you stink.

    JVK

  14. #14
    Phero Dude DCW's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    I seem to go through

    stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural and

    physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my ethnicity. A

    huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated a couple

    Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals. Although I was

    really horny, that got old fast.
    I agree with some of this, Over the years I've dated Hispanic,

    Asian, Caucasion etc.
    I love all variety of women.

    DCW

  15. #15
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim929
    Okay...on the race

    issue...I am a troll(its a rare but generaly recognized race)What do these experts say women think of

    me?
    Tim,

    Thank you for coming out and asking for the rest of us. You're a god among

    trolls.

    JVK,

    Your words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not

    literally, anyway).

    The trolls have long been underappreciated and misreprezented (most recently in the

    anti-troll propaganda piece Crash). It's about time we're given our due.

    Anyway, thanks again, guys.

    You've made things just a little brighter under this bridge.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  16. #16
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes

    JVK,
    Your

    words bring solace. It's comforting to know that trolls do not, in fact, stink (not literally, anyway).

    With knowledge of pheromones, perhaps more people will begin to realize the role they play in

    biased/prejudicial thoughts about others, especially where group differences are involved. No matter what group you

    have negative feelings towards, there is likely to be an unconscious affect of pheromones at work, just as there is

    when you have positive feelings towards a particular group.

    "Pause, Krauel, Schrader, Sojka, Westphal,

    Müller-Ruchholtz, and Ferstl (2006) have found that the unconscious affect of HLA-related body odors occurs more

    rapidly when men and women are exposed to HLA-similar donors and that subsequent evaluative processing of these

    odors activates more neurons than does processing body odor from HLA-dissimilar donors. Further, when men and women

    were exposed to odors from the same sex, HLA-associated brain responses were processed in different parts of the

    brain: male, frontal; female parietal, which correlated with odor ratings. Pause et al. (2006) indicated that

    differences in the way that men and women process HLA-associated odor signals point to the likelihood that same sex

    odor plays a different role in behavior than odor from the opposite sex. Same sex odor may be most important to

    male-male competitive behaviors and to female-female communal behavior. This speculation correlates with results

    that show male and female adolescents recognize the odor of platonic friends (Olsson, Barnard, & Turri, 2004).

    Taken together, the ability to recognize olfactory/pheromonal cues, either from communal friends or from

    competitors, and the ability to differentially process or respond to these cues could play a role in establishing

    long-term platonic alliances that mimic HLA-associated kinship alliances, like those found in the Israeli kibbutzim.

    Olfactory/pheromonal input could bias the development and maintenance of platonic male-male, female-female,

    female-male, male-female, and group alliances, which might be adaptive for cooperative efforts (for review, see Kohl

    & Francoeur, 1995, 2002)." -- from Kohl (in press) The Mind's Eyes: Human Pheromones, Neuroscience, and Male Sexual

    Preferences. Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality.

    JVK

  17. #17
    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma
    its pretty rare

    to see asian men dating anything other than asian women (a result of low none production?).
    Not true in my

    area alot of Asian guys date white girls they are second to Asian ladies.

    Im a black guy who loves Asian

    women when I wear none based mones its either a "love/hate" reaction.This goes for Asians born in America and

    Asians born in another country.So I either notice the ladies get closer or try to cover their nose somehow.

  18. #18
    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...4.2005.00293.x

    Females

    evaluate androstenone itself
    as more unpleasant than males do, and furthermore,
    for only females, androstenone

    enhances the
    intensity and unpleasantness of other body-odor
    constituents such as short-chain fatty

    acids.

    The full text is available from the URL

    provided.

    JVK
    So what you are saying if I wear none or any other mone

    I can alter a womans body odor?Because I notice that with Asian ladies sometimes I'll be around wearing mones but

    about 15 minutes later they give off an "oily chemical odor" its the same smell with different ladies.I have no idea

    if its just Chinese,Korean,Japanese etc. or its all nationalities of Asians.

  19. #19
    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    I seem to go

    through stages of racial preferences. I tire of Koreans and lust after Filipinas or Blacks... I think the cultural

    and physical variety and excitment of something forbitten entices me. Ultimately I always drift back to my

    ethnicity. A huge comfort zone and innate understanding of one another comes easy with a similar background. I dated

    a couple Japanese women where our main communication consisted of 10 words, assorted gunts and hand signals.

    Although I was really horny, that got old fast.
    Im in the same boat the 80s was my "white girl" phase.90s was

    my"Hispanic phase".Now Im in my "Asian Phase" but I think Im staying in it for life.

  20. #20
    Phero Dude
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    I remember reading another study

    (which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found androstenone to smell

    bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.

    During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone to smell good, but

    their evaluation was neutral.

    Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when they are not active

    sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an pheromone's

    effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone probably

    shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may be

    effective as an attractive pheromone for women.

    An explanation for this may be found in other literature

    which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage

    candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more

    alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.

    So -none based

    pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.

    Of course there are bound to be

    ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up

    pheromone.

  21. #21
    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvs
    I remember reading

    another study (which I don't have the reference for handy, but could find), which found that women found

    androstenone to smell bad EXCEPT when they were ovulating.

    During ovulation, they didn't find androstenone

    to smell good, but their evaluation was neutral.

    Since pheromones produce more of an olfactory response when

    they are not active sexually, and less when they are, (at least in terms of sexual dimorphism), one can't judge an

    pheromone's effectiveness by the reaction people have to its odor. But someone who is to be affected by a pheromone

    probably shouldn't be driven away by it. So it does seem at least possible that during ovulation androstenone may

    be effective as an attractive pheromone for women.

    An explanation for this may be found in other literature

    which shows that many women look for stable partners as husbands (and probably boyfriends who are possible marriage

    candidates), but look for alpha-male types for sex when they are fertile. The -none may make guys seem more

    alpha-male and therefore more of a one-night-stand candiate when they're horny and fertile.

    So -none based

    pheromones may repel women who are not ovulating but attract those who are.

    Of course there are bound to be

    ethic differences, but this could explain why many people still swear by -none particularly as a quick hook-up

    pheromone.
    Great post XVS I agree with the using of mones when a lady is ovulating to get great results.

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