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  1. #1
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    Post Memoirs of a newbie

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Hi,

    allow me to introduce myself. I'm a (male) college freshman in NY, Asian, 5'7", average looks, maybe a little

    overweight but certainly not fat. All my life, I've been suffering from the LJBF syndrome. Actually, it's been

    more of a WAGG but LJBF. Girls are always telling me how nice, smart, interesting and multi-talented I am, but never

    show any romantic interest in me. For many years now, I've been toying with the idea of using synthetic pheromones,

    but I was always skeptical about their effectiveness, and I (and my friends) kept telling myself "be patient, and

    one day someone will be attracted to your natural charm." Well, guess what? I've been as patient as I can, and that

    never happened. Then, about two weeks ago, the girl I've been really interested in since I first met her early in

    the semester, and who gave me WAGG but LJBF about a month before that when I told her I liked her, started going out

    with a guy who almost all my female friends agree is less attractive than me in both looks and personality and is,

    to quote some of them, "really weird and annoying". I wept for a bit, and then decided that enough was enough, and

    that my days of rejection were over. A week ago, I ordered the freebie pack.

    One concern I've always had about

    the validity of "hits" posted on this forum is that the fact that we're here shows that we either believe or want

    to believe in the power of synthetic pheromones, and that might impair our objectivity to some degree. Therefore,

    I've tried to temper myself with a good bit of skepticism.

    ---

    Note: On all the days mentioned below, I wore

    Alessandro Dell'Acqua cologne, which I normally use, in addition to the pheromone gels.

    DAY 1
    I applied about

    1/4 unscented SOE gel on my neck and a little on my wrists. I'm usually on very friendly terms with lots of girls

    so it's hard to tell if they were friendlier than usual. A few of them might have been just a tad bit more

    flirtatious than usual but I can't be certain.

    DAY 2
    I applied about 1/4 scented Chikara gel on my neck and a

    little on my wrists. I spent most of the day alone off campus, and was therefore surrounded by people I didn't

    know. I didn't get any particular attention from any strangers. Back on campus, however, I may have gotten my first

    DIHL, but I only caught a fleeting glimpse of it when I turned behind, and it is entirely possible (and probable)

    that her gaze wasn't actually on me. On retrospect, however, the same girl had called out "hi" to me when I passed

    by her and her friends on Day 1, which didn't usually happen and I haven't spoken to her much. Coincidence? Or the

    effect of 'mones? I don't want to jump to conclusions yet...

    DAY 3
    I wore about 1/4 unscented SOE gel with a

    small amount of Chikara and TE gel. I may have gotten a little more female attention than usual but again, I can't

    be sure. There was a girl who, when she came up from behind me to talk to me, wrapped her arms around my chest and

    whispered into my ear. I thought that was a little unusual since we didn't know each other that well, but we were

    certainly friends and she was somewhat flirtatious in general, so it's unconclusive.

    DAY 4
    I mixed a small

    amount of unscented SOE gel with my hair styling mousse, and applied about 1/4 unscented SOE gel with 1/4 TE gel

    onto my neck. A few girls whom I was fairly close to may have acted a little closer to me than usual but, once

    again, nothing conclusive.

    DAY 5 (today)
    I wore about 1/2 scented SOE gel. Again no obvious reactions but I did

    get the following conversation with a girl I knew pretty well (slightly modified and abridged):

    Me: From now on,

    I'm going to be a ladies' man. I'm going to show [that girl who rejected me] that half the girls at this college

    want to sleep with me.

    She: I do.

    Me: (grins) I'll hold you to that.

    She: (chuckles) Nah, that would be

    awkward, 'cause every time we see each other we'd just be thinking of how great the other night was. Besides,

    I've sworn off men. No, not really.

    And that was the end of that topic. I didn't get any more attention than

    usual from any of my female teachers.

    ---

    I'll continue testing and posting reports. Meanwhile, I've just

    ordered a box of Perception gel packs just because it seemed like too good a deal to pass up; I can't wait to start

    experimenting with that.

    Till next time,
    Valentine's Garden.

  2. #2
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Good, keep the scepticism going

    but keep a journal too. I strongly urge you to work with a single product at a time as it will give you a better

    opportunity to get reliable results. Since you are buying Perception, start with that and run tests to see what it

    does and how much you need. I hope it all works out for you.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Phero Dude gfunk's Avatar
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    Interesting read VG!



    Now how many of these "coincidences" do you experience normally? I think you've had some great results

    already, so you should forget about being sceptic and focus on getting the best results. It can only help for you to

    think positive!

    Might I add, depending on how bad you want it you should consider doing excercise and

    maybe a change of diet in order to lose that extra fat you've got. This is good for you health and you sense of

    well being, which in turn increases your self-confidence. In my opinion, this will turn your situation in the

    direction you want it; i.e. women starting to show romantic interest. This in combination with the synthetic mones

    will be totally dangerous!!

    Best of luck!


  4. #4
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    Yes I know, I need to

    start working out at the gym. I've been telling myself that, but always found excuses not to (especially not having

    enough time, which is very real for me with my crazy schedule, but I guess it's worth sacrificing a bit of social

    time for my health). I'll try to find time this week and force myself to go.

    Meanwhile, I'll post more results

    when the day is over.

  5. #5
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    You've been approaching mone

    use the right way, as a sceptic. Don't jump to conclussions but test them out steadily and methodologically.

    You'll get the most reliable results that way.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    Well, you've got part of

    the formula. Next you need to start working on you! Check out <link Deleted> and sign up for his newsletter; also

    some of the <Link Deleted> about working on your "technique”; i.e. not being a wuss, and "cocky and funny". The

    ~mones will help, but they aren't a magic bullet!

    By the way,
    Last edited by belgareth; 11-15-2005 at 11:29 AM.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  7. #7
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    I've read some issues

    of David de Angelo's newsletter, but they all seem to be blatant and somewhat empty promotions for his "Double Your

    Dating" e-book. Have you read it and/or found it to be useful, Mtnjim?

    About being "cocky" and stuff, I have said

    to some of my female friends before, "you know, I'm sick and tired of being the nice guy who never gets the girls.

    Maybe I should just become an asshole and girls will come flocking to me." And the most common reply was something

    along the lines of "oh no, you're one of the nicest persons I know, don't do that because then you won't be

    yourself and nobody will like you for it." Well, what I'm thinking is maintaining the "nice guy" image (which is

    probably natural for me anyway) but amping up my sexual confidence and boosting that with 'mones. One thing to

    remember is that I'm in a fairly small college and thus I'm always surrounded be people I know. In addition, most

    of my good friends are female. It would be a bad idea to suddenly turn into someone I'm not and risk turning them

    away from me.

  8. #8
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    Default David D's material

    Alot of his

    earlier material is dead on but it's very raw information and can be hard to apply.

    Subscribe to his

    newsletter, he does promote his product just about every newsletter and he does use emails from his students as

    plugs but in almost every dating tip or newsletter there's a lesson to be learned if you aren't a ladies man.



    His products about inner game and his interview series stuff can be extremely effective. He doesn't focus on just

    techniques and lines, he's all about inner game and getting yourself right as much as any technique.

    Get the

    newsletter, and if your really cheap just download some of his stuff off of something like limewire or a p2p

    program. Some of it sucks or won't make sense early on but there is alot of valueble information in it.

    Derek

    Vitalio is pretty similar and he takes basically the same outlook with women as David D but he's got his own

    style.

    Some of their products are ok, other's will teach you alot and make alot of stuff click. I can tell by

    reading some of the people's posts here that they're students of David D or some other guru in one form or

    another. It's obvious.

    They'll help you grow as a person and help you with women if you have the patience.



    I don't know about Derek Vitalio, but David D offers money back guarantees on alot of his stuff. Better

    guarantees than just about everyone. I was reading some of his stuff and I forgot what it was he was promoting, but

    he was giving like 30 days or 3 months or something to learn and apply it, and if it don't work send it back and he

    won't charge you. He's got some other one with his ebooks too, tell him it doesn't work or its not for you, and

    even though you can't return an ebook he'll refund you.

    So with David D's stuff there's no risk and you can

    always get your loot back.

    This sounds like an obvious plug from the way i'm reading my own post but i've been

    reading his ebooks and newsletters and watched a few of his advanced series stuff over the last 4 years and I can

    tell you Iwouldn't be the person I am today without it.

    Ryan

  9. #9
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    There's nothing wrong with

    being a nice guy. The problem most "nice guys" have is that they're far too passive and give women far too much

    power over them. You can be nice, but you still have to be a man.

  10. #10
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    [img]images/icons/icon1.gif[/img]


    " I've read some issues of

    David de Angelo's newsletter, but they all seem to be blatant and somewhat empty promotions for his "Double Your

    Dating" e-book."

    Of course they aree promotions for his book, but if yor read some of the answers to the

    questions, they can provide hints.

    "About being "cocky" and stuff..."

    The important part is the AND FUNNY

    part!

    Of course you can remain the "nice guy" your female friends like, if you only want females as

    "friends".

    And NO, never become an A-hole!!
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undertow
    There's nothing wrong with being a nice guy. The problem most "nice guys" have is that they're

    far too passive and give women far too much power over them. You can be nice, but you still have to be a

    man.
    And that's what I'm going to be from now on.

  12. #12
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    We've about beat the subject

    of nice guys to death on this forum. Some people regard a nice guy as a wimp who acts like a supplicant and lets

    women walk all over him. Don't ever do that. MntJim said it well when he said to never become an a**hole. But you

    can still stand up and act like a man while being a nice guy.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
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    Here is a big RED FLAG, based on

    your reporting of your convo's with the women you mentioned.

    You talk to them like you are one of their

    Girlfriends. You don't converse with women about your emotional needs and problems with women.

    I'm not

    going to tell you any specifics or direct you to any seduction products. However, just based on your posts, it

    really seems you need a much better way of relating to women. For a women to see you in a romantic light, you need

    to project the image of a MAN. Not another one of her chick friends.


    Oh and P.S. Try to find some male

    friends and hang around less with your female buddies. Hopefully soon you'll get it.

  14. #14
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    1) Find the gym even if you

    have to go to bed a little earlier to get up earlier.
    2) Have one of your little "girl" friends go clothes shopping

    and help you pick out a couple new things to wear that are stylish.
    3) Get dating e-book by Carlos Xuma (Explains

    things much better than David with less chance to misunderstand without having to buy his dvd for 300 bucks which is

    why he is so vague in ebook cause he is more a marketing guru than a dating guru)
    4) Start slowly experimenting

    with mones to find the right thing for you. Start with None....If you need a lot of it start experimenting with none

    heavy or dark mones....if girls seem to not respond or get mean or quiet or nothing and you can use very

    little.....experiment more with the white mones to find your combo
    5) Most important take action and go for what

    you want....dont act like their little gay friend if what you want is romantic interest from a girl. The longer she

    has to get comfortable with you in her life as a friend....the weirder it will be for her when you finally get up

    the balls to make a move.

  15. #15
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    About being "cocky" and

    stuff, I have said to some of my female friends before, "you know, I'm sick and tired of being the nice guy who

    never gets the girls. Maybe I should just become an asshole and girls will come flocking to me." And the most common

    reply was something along the lines of "oh no, you're one of the nicest persons I know, don't do that because then

    you won't be yourself and nobody will like you for it."
    They may like you, but they are talking about

    liking you as a friend. Just look at the types of guys that those women actually go out with or just have sex

    with.

    I wouldn't be really nasty to people though, that's not exactly constructive. Just focus on being really

    fun to be around while not seeking approval of those around you.

    Girls will have sex and relationships with a

    confident man, not one of their friends. That is the essence of LJBF. There's nothing wrong with having female

    friends though, or being a good person.

    I'm not a "student of David D" but I have seen some of his stuff out of

    curiosity.
    CptKipling

    Information about pheromones: Pheromone Information Library

  16. #16
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    I'm copying and pasting this

    quote from one of my old posts, and if you want to read the whole argument I've made, do an advanced search for

    "Nice Guy" with "Pancho1188" as the person whose posts you are looking to read. To sum it up for you, though, there

    is the nice guy, the asshole, and the real man. A "nice guy" is nice but usually lacks confidence,

    assertiveness/aggressiveness, or masculine/sexual presence. An "asshole" has confidence but earns it/keeps it by

    putting others down or being ignorant or mean. A "real man" can be confident without putting others down or

    insulting people. The "assholes" get more chances with the ladies than the "nice guys" because confidence trumps

    kindness. You can have the best of both worlds, though, with the "real man" attitude.

    Watch the movie

    The Mask (although I'm sure many have already seen it). It's a movie about---whodathunkit---a "nice guy"

    who actually writes an article called "Nice Guys Finish Last" in the movie. He won't stand up for himself to his

    boss, he won't do anything to advance his life in any way, but he's a hell of a nice guy (and I believe people

    tell him that in the movie). He then finds the mask and becomes a "jerk". Then, he finds out that he doesn't need

    the mask to become a real man, and *poof* he makes the transition from "nice guy" to "jerk" to "real man" all in one

    movie.

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    That's an excellent

    analogy, Pancho1188. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

    Meanwhile...

    DAY 6
    Nothing much to report. I was ill so

    I spent most of my time alone in my room. I applied about 1/4 Chikara gel to my neck in the morning, came back and

    took a nap, then because I was worried that I may have rubbed off most of the 'mones onto the bed, I added about

    1/8 TE gel. I took another nap in the late afternoon so I'm not sure how much of the 'mones remained when I went

    out again in the evening. One girl (another good friend) may have seemed to consistently stand a little closer to me

    than usual, but nothing remarkable happened.

    Incidentally (and this is a general report, not just for today), it

    is possible that the 'mones may be having a positive effect on my gay roommate, though there are no clear

    indications and he knows that I'm straight so it's unlikely that he would show any obvious signs.

  18. #18
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    The problem here is everybody has

    a different definition of what a "nice guy" is. To some, a nice guy is a dickless doormat lacking direction and

    personality, kissing up to everyone around him and begging for mercy. To me, that's a description of a spineless

    coward. He is not nice and doesn't qualify as a man (maybe a cockroach). To me, nice guys have mamas that taught

    them manners, to be fair and to consider the rights and feelings of others before their own needs. However, he can

    still be a man and stand up for what he believes, be confident, sucessful, think for himself and take no prisoners

    in life's mission. Now a young man acting cocky is shouts "I am immature, insecure and self-centered." He appears

    needy because he's trying too hard to be the man he wished he were...

    Now I consider myself a nice guy.

    I'm sensitive, caring, witty, educated, vain (!) and well mannered. I do get regular poon and sometimes from places

    I shouldn't tread (e.g., students and wives of associates). I guess I'm a nice guy because I hate to hurt the

    feelings of a succulent piece of ass! I have lots of female friends I can talk to about "sensitive" topics like

    feelings or sex. I guess you might call it "girl talk." Anyway, my male friends usually hate talking about those

    sorts of things. In my experience, talking about "sensitive" topics with women tends to bring them closer to me.

    They gotta trust you bigtime to talk about their pussies or sexual techniques. Many times such conversations lead to

    "show 'n tell" and eventually "friends with benefits" sex. Many women have told me it was my gentle nature and

    intimate conversation that turned them on. I was merely being myself and didn't care if I got in their pants.

    However, I could see where some guys could come off as being a perv or worse if they lacked conversational skills.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    You might want to try out some of

    Gegogi's combonations and dosages if you get the opportunity. I hate generalizing, but the fact that you are asian

    and seem to be women's friends more than anything else and believe you come off as a nice guy would indicate you

    probably need to crank up the TE(Anone). A nice ratio of TE to SOE might be just right for you. Make sure you use

    less SOE than TE so that you keep it a sexual mix rather than primarily friendly since you've got that down pat

    without mones.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    The

    problem here is everybody has a different definition of what a "nice guy" is. To some, a nice guy is a dickless

    doormat lacking direction and personality, kissing up to everyone around him and begging for mercy. To me, that's a

    description of a spineless coward. He is not nice and doesn't qualify as a man (maybe a cockroach). To me, nice

    guys have mamas that taught them manners, to be fair and to consider the rights and feelings of others before their

    own needs. However, he can still be a man and stand up for what he believes, be confident, sucessful, think for

    himself and take no prisoners in life's mission. Now a young man acting cocky is shouts "I am immature, insecure

    and self-centered." He appears needy because he's trying too hard to be the man he wished he were...
    Thanks, Gegogi! My thoughts exactly. I certainly don't consider myself a spineless coward. As a good

    musician who knows it, I definitely have confidence both on and off the stage. I realize, however, that I need to

    drum it into my subconscious that girls find me irresistable, and let that show through in my interactions with

    girls -- a different kind of confidence that I still need to develop.

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    Ok....you have a great

    plan.....if for some reason that does not come together for you.....you can re-read the thread with all the advice

    and go from there. Go Get em!

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    Exclamation Dude, find a good Meisner (acting) teacher and take Meisner tech 1

    This acting method will beat the pants off any book or tape your money can buy.

    In the hands of a good meisner teacher you will find out very quickly where your skill level is at, how to be

    uncomfortable as hell and stay loose about it, how to keep a conversation moving... meisner training gives you no

    place to hide, it forces you to work off the other player's energy and forget your own stupid gig... the massive,

    grotesque, wildly fucked up mistake that these How-To courses make is they teach it like wretchedly bad acting

    teachers teach people how to be wretchedly bad actors, like a simple formula that you memorize and then try to pull

    off the formula, if you tried that on stage you'd be boo'd off in 10 minutes of making a total fool of yourself...

    meisner is unique in that there is no formula, you have to be totally responsive and alive to the finest shifts in

    energy from the other person and know how to track those shifts and work with them. it is a powerful skill that is

    totally transparent, nobody sees or feels you doing meisner, it is absolutely invisible, there anre no lines, no

    hooks, no moves, no pathetic NLP schticks (speaking as one who went through an extended NLP phase with the real

    dudes a quarter century ago)... meisner is pure energetic attunement, it is hard and frustrating to learn, you'll

    feel like an idiot for months as you study it, then when it starts to click in, you'll be thinking, what the F?

    Where did that come from ? It was so effortless, so natural, like breathing, pure second nature... just do the

    legwork and find a good (translation: relentless, intuitive, powerful ,respected in the industry, demanding, cuts

    your bullshit no slack) meisner teacher... and beware of the legions of phonies that, heeeeock, "teach acting"...

    it's the purest path there is...

  23. #23
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    I've taken several acting

    working shops and they were extremely helpful in tweaking my verbal/body/facial communication skills.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  24. #24
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    Dale Carnegie courses are good

    for that too.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    If an acting workshop is

    teaching you how to act...how does it help you in the real world though? Are you allowed to act any persona

    including of yourself? I dont get it....At first it sounded very exciting...but now that I have found out it is

    nothing more than acting class I wonder the merit of how it can help you in the real world with better social skills

    when it is teaching you to become a character....and yes....I took acting class and loved it to death....but helping

    you with women? I just dont understand....

  26. #26
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    Default James Bond Crash Course

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud9
    How about a class that teaches you how to act like jame bond and pull it off..that would be

    cool.
    We cant shoot bad guys or blow things up but here is a crash lesson on how YOU can be like James

    Bond:

    1) Be laid back and calm no matter what...maybe even humorous

    2) Learn how to communicate in metaphors

    and in a nonverbal way with the ladies so that you can be talking about anything but turning them on and making them

    think of you in the right way.
    3) Be a man
    4) Take care of her

  27. #27
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    Exclamation Note carefully ! Was it a Meisner class ? Was the teacher exceptional ?

    having survived some damn awful bad acting classes in search of the real

    deal... point 1, yes, there are real deal teachers out there, and they're the ones who make you really

    uncomfortable and demand you work right down to your core and point 2, those teachers are very unpopular with losers

    and phonies because losers and phonies can't take the heat unless they make the conscious choice to get past their

    loser-phony facades and take responsibility for their own existences at a deeper level, and point 3, these teachers

    are also most respected at being able to to generate real results because they will only work with real energy, and

    point 4, only real energy is going to score in the outer world so you might as well learn how to cultivate it or get

    used to riding in the cattle car, and point 5, there are more than too many lame losers who have figured out a nice

    little cash generating racket peddling their sad excuses for "acting classes"... if that's all you ever

    experienced, you might think that's the real McCoy when it never was Jack and never was intended to be...... you

    have to do your homework and sniff out the good stuff, then be prepared to work your sad ass ragged, 'cause that

    focus and committment and ability is what other people instinctively get about you when they size you up, which,

    trust me, they do non-stop.

  28. #28
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    sooooo....I guess what you are

    saying is that if you find the right acting teacher he will teach you to be able to put your true energy into

    everything you do right down to the smallest subtle movement....right?

  29. #29
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    "...I wonder the merit of

    how it can help you in the real world with better social skills when it is teaching you to become a character....and

    yes....I took acting class and loved it to death....but helping you with women? I just dont

    understand....
    Acting and music performance have taught me how to precisely control and project feelings

    and persona. As a performer I must step on stage and, no matter how I feel, convince an auduence my feelings are

    genuine. Once I have their confidence--and that often takes as little as a few seconds--I can manipulate their

    emotional responses. In everyday life this means, regardless of how I feel about a person or situation, I can create

    and project an image of myself I actually desire.

    Performance classes do not teach you how to think and solve

    problems. You won't learn how to close a business deal or pickup women at the market. That's up to you. However,

    performance training helps give you the discipline and basic techniques to carry out your plan. For example I often

    have to speak and perform in front of hundreds, sometimes thousands of people. I'm often told how relaxed and

    confident I appear. However--like many performers--I'm actually scared shitless but have learned to protray a

    confident and authoritative persona. And, yes, I can turn it on and off like a light switch.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    Wink that's kind of the deal, you learn to be comfortable with discomfort

    a real acting class will make you really uncomfortable, over and over, in

    hundreds of ways, until you learn to work with discomfort; pressure, awkwardness become you allies, not your

    adversary... most wannabees can't get over because they can't take psychological pressure, once the adrenaline

    kicks in they fall to pieces.... the best teachers will take you to places where you learn to respond to having all

    your most sensitive buttons pushed with elegant social reflexes... you will move from a place of doing to a place of

    being, you won't have to consciously do anything, you just hang out and be. Centered Being is the most critical

    skill, there's no recipe. Your center has to be very still, perceptive, aware, responsive, quiet, free of a lot of

    preconceptions and need to fill the space with excess talk and activity... like, knowing exactly when to stop

    talking, exactly where the social edge is, when to let silence do its work at the precise instant, that is fine

    skill they few, very few people have without deep training.

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