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  1. #31
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Maybe you have less experience

    around little girls. Ritalin is common to calm and quiet them too. That is something I am strongly against except in

    extreme cases where everything else has failed. It also opens a door to a whole new discussion.

    I used canines

    but could have as easily used human in every instance. You do not address a single point but just go back and cite

    more studies. Studies are nice but frequently fall far short of real life. I'm not going to argue the point any

    longer because it is the age old debate between textbook and experience. It cannot be won except by time and

    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #32
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    The studies Pancho sites show

    more agression by boys as an average regarding frequency of behavior.

    Aggressive behaviors from boys is

    generally acccepted, and physical behavior, including destructive behavior, is more often exhibited. Boys are the

    physically dominant sex, and have more testosterone. It is also the male role in world culture to assume

    responsibility for a society's "aggressive tasks". Situations where a mother must protect her children are an

    exception to this. Women often need to establish practical dominance in domestic situations for this reason, and


    This is not inconsistent with Belgareth's point, though, if you "factor out the frequency variable".

    In psychology, as I often point out, you have to look very closely to see exactly what some particular

    research shows; before drawing general conclusions about human behavior from that research.

    When you get to

    subtle levels, where the research is scarce, you do well to look at personal experiences to form hypotheses.


    personal and clinical experiences tell me that women can be as viscious and focused on doing maximum harm as men,

    when they become aggressive, if not moreso. There is little research on this aspect.

    For example, I used

    to box and do martial arts. When I've watched women compete in full-contact situations, they were not as "calm" and

    "cool" with their "violence", but tended to be more viscious and unrestrained with it. Often, the first time someone

    hit the other person, the "buzzsaws would start flying", until a clear winner emerged.

    Women also have seemed to

    me to be more skilled at doing harm with emotional violence; again, when they have chosen to engage in

    it. This type of aggression is often indirect, but is aggression none the less.

    I think men are more used to

    physical violence, due to the frequency issue Pancho highlighted; and ritualize it more. In this sense, they know

    how to "handle" violent situations "better". As a result, for example, I suspect there are more functioning "codes

    of honor" to male physical violence, on the average.

    But these are just my testable hypotheses. The research

    needs to "catch up to the life stories" a little bit on this one.

    This "lag" is the typical situation in the

    human sciences; the situation that Belgareth was alluding to.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 04-22-2005 at 12:53 AM.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  3. #33
    Man of La Pancha
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
    The studies

    Pancho sites show more agression by boys as an average regarding frequency of behavior.

    all I was trying to suggest in the first place. My comment was that men take more risks (frequency) than women.

    That's why all the studies I cite show that. Since risk-taking and aggressiveness are related (taking a risk often

    involves having the aggressiveness to take that risk), I added that men show more aggressive behaviors than women as

    well. Since everyone likes to throw in the "but it's socially acceptable for men to exert aggression", I showed

    stock portfolios, which are unbiased to physical differences and social norms because it's as easy as sitting at a

    computer and making a few mouse clicks today. It's just you and your portfolio, and your portfolio isn't talking.

    Still, the evidence is that men have riskier stocks, which lead to riskier portfolios, which means more risks.

    My only comment to Bel is a playful, "You must hang around with the top 1% of aggressive women in the world."

  4. #34
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Cool. You cited some classic

    studies and top psychologists from that field, to your credit. I was just showing how both your perspectives

    could well be correct, as part of a bigger picture.

    Mental health issues note (ignore if not interested

    Incidentally, Ritalin is useful for attention defecit, but not aggressive behaviors, unless the behaviors

    are "secondary" (somehow a result of the ADD).

    Regarding Bel's point, throwing Ritalin (or another med) at

    someone at the first sign of trouble is indeed not the recommended route from a professional mental health point of

    view. A family should try counseling first, and the counselor can then consult with the psychiatrist about whether a

    trial of meds is clinically indicated. The most common mistake is to just go to the primary care physician and have

    him or her prescribe some psychiatric meds, without really understanding the clinical mental health issues. I see

    that in my practice all the time, and always intervene on the issue.

    I won't even agree with an experienced

    child psychiatrist prescribing anything without my input, since a psychiatrist will have a more superficial

    understanding of the symptoms compared to the therapist working with the family, assuming everyone is equally


    That said, ADD meds can really be a godsend when prescribed appropriately, and typically aren't

    necessary for the long haul if other measures are taken.

    And Pancho, ADD happens just as often with girls, but

    is often misdiagnosed, due to differences in overt physical behavior.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 04-22-2005 at 06:54 PM.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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