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[DrSmellThis]

Doc,

go back and read my posts in the thread about the FLDS church. I clearly stated that rape and forced marriage were

wrong. To amend that statement I also will state that beatings are wrong. You are misconstruing what I said.

If you'll remember my often repeated stand on human rights, there could be no question about how wrong your

statements are. That I also find the idea of the state owning any human being repulsive should be understandable

to any free person.

That I value all life is to me far more rational than saying humans are more important than

the beasts or the plants. The earth would do just fine without us. It would not do so well without the plants or

animals. A fact that we mighty humans seem to forget all the time is that we are a aprt of 'The Beasts'. The

unfortunate part is that we regard ourselves as more important than the rest of the system within which we dwell.



Your statements remind me of all the destruction and misery caused by the misguided belief that we are the

rulers of this world and more important than the rest of it. And to place 'The State' above even that is

obscene.

To set one last thing straight, I am asking as many questions as I am making statements. Very little of

what I have written has anything to do with my own beliefs. Rather, it has to do with respecting others beliefs and

the obvious fallacy of assuming everybody's knowledge is the same. To remind you: Your reality is dependent on your

focus. Your reality is not mine, nor is it theirs.

It's interesting, and I admit kinda funny, that

you're getting a touch defensive here. No offense intended, of course.

Remember, if anyone should feel

uncomfortable and defensive about getting their beliefs challenged here, it should be me, given that I've always

been a professional child advocate. Maybe my life's work is a load of crap in that way! But that's all the more

reason for me to challenge my own beliefs, which I am doing here. Screw my beliefs. They are not sacred, but are

temporary working hypotheses.

So why should the rapes and beatings be legally prohibited, if the state needs to

stay out of individual's private business? What is that line?

All I'm doing is exploring the issues -- not

suggesting that you believe this or that. And I am certainly not suggesting that I believe this or that, about the

state or what have you; except that I believe these are some issues and questions. I don't think I read the other

thread you were referring to, unless I forget. But I was suggesting that your words here appear a certain way

because they do within this thread, to me, (though I certainly suspected your complete beliefs were not identical to

appearances) and I was encouraging people to make coherent statements and clarifications of their positions in one

place, or explore what they believe. If I piece together what you believe from everywhere else, I'm going to fail

to understand what you are talking about, and to me the issues of this thread would have failed to have been

addressed, not that anyone needs to. Your view point seems essential. But this is a good issue, IMHO, to bring some

things together, because it treads so many boundaries, and even treads some lines that seem to exist for posters

here.

It's really a challenge to tie together several realms of thought; and it's a bit more concrete with

this case, than in a purely political discussion.

It's an opportunity to clarify, explore, etc. Why not test

our beliefs round the edges a bit? Even Christian theology mostly recommends this; or at least pays it lip service.

To me it's fascinating, even if it does put some of my beliefs at risk, beliefs that I have been passionate about,

and even argued in front of judges when I've had to testify about what should happen to a child.

Thanks

everybody, for your participation. Belgareth, I have especially been led to think and stimulated very much by your

input. Your mindset seems relatively consistent, as compared to most (yes, one of the best alpha traits).



Idesign, this applies to you as well. But I would also love to hear more about what you believe, because there are

so many aspects; political, theological, philosophical and humanitarian; and I haven't conversed with you as much.

I'd love a beer sometime. Beer is the philosopher's stone. What part of the US are you in?