some women prefer it but a lot
comes down to their own personal preferences
some women prefer it but a lot
comes down to their own personal preferences
Quick comments in general: there it
too much to life to sum all of "it" up. My comment was generic in nature as well, applicable to all aspects of life.
Right now, in terms of "women" etc., all someone would have to do is read the past posts on this forum from us
ancient ones.
One thing I've learned (out of many many things) is that "it's" not always black and white,
there are many shades of grey. Many paths lead to the same destination. Just as two snowflakes are unlikely to be
exactly alike, so it goes with everything in nature.
I've noted that at least one of the "successful dating
gurus" Duke speaks of really only targets ONE of his 8 "successful" personality types (that he talks about in one of
his "mini-ebooks), and no one, not even him, claims 100% success even there. Yes, I see wisdom in some of his
teachings, and like us old farts, he too is speaking from a degree of experience, and I notice from his reputed
sales, enough others (including me) consider themselves "clueless" enough to buy or at least consider his (and the
other's he interviews) knowledge/experiences.
Enough for now...
PS Asking what "it" is sorta reminds me of
when Deep Thought was asked for the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything... (Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy)
Last edited by Rbt; 11-25-2005 at 01:57 PM. Reason: typos
The opposite of love isn't hate.
It's apathy.
Why Rbt, you wise old goat, I
tend to see life in many shades of gray too. Sure there are some absolutes but as I trekked the road of life my
rigid ideals slowly but surely merged to a continuum. I'm happier, more successful and open to new things because
of this flexibilty.
"I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi
There are few absolutes in life
other than those we impose on ourselves. Duke has it right about being true to oneself and that is one of the
absolutes. Otherwise, the world has more than six billion people and no two are alike. It's silly to imagine the
same methods and thought patterns pertain to all of them. You have to exercise judgement and work with the
individual if you are going to be successful at anything for any length of time. Of course, the fact that they are
all different is what makes them so interesting and entertaining. The challenge never ends. The varying shades of
grey are almost infinate.
I think that realization, that there are shades of grey in all facets of dealing with
life, is the biggest and hardest lesson to learn.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Now that we
are on shades of grey and really deep I will add my 2 cents. I agree that "it" has to do with grey and that was kind
of what my point was in addressing what "it" really is. We all find our "it" in different ways based not only on our
experiences but also how we view those experiences. An event alone does not shape the event, it is only the event
combined with your reaction that determines a given outcome. My experience was a 5 year relationship which still
sometimes haunts me even 5 months later. There is a lesson to be learned in everything in life. The lesson that I
was to learn here was to never sell yourself out for someone else. To always stay true to yourself and know when to
cut your losses. The final year of this relationship was torture because I was so stubborn that I ignored the fact
that we were wrong for each other and thought I could compromise everything I stood for and make things work. The
problem was she was never willing to compromise anything. Why should she....I would always be the one to do it! lol.
When I asked for her to meet me half way it was the beginning of the end. I had built a relationship on what I could
bring to her and what I could be to her....I forgot to look or even care what she could bring to me. We were from
drastically different backgrounds and there were just too many obstacles to overcome. I saw plenty of grey for too
long in this one....and In the end I paid the price. "it" is grey and different for everyone based on their
individual experiences. That is why I have never NOT enjoyed a good debate. I respect the hell out of all of you
that have posted to this thread. I just dont always agree. Gegogi is hit or miss with me for instance. Sometimes he
really hits home and nails it....other times he is way off....my experience in life has been drastically
different....and I suspect the cultures that surround us are also different....however we have both found success
with women. This is proof that there is grey in the world and that if you stay true to yourself and stay strong and
have a big heart....success comes in many shapes and sizes.... I think the conclusion to other posts is exactly as I
suspected when I brought it to light. There is no "it".....life just isnt that simple. There are constants though.
Confidence and staying true to yourself and being a man....those are constants. Some on here will argue with the
"being a man" constant. To them I simply say that there are many different ways to be a man and if you do enough of
them so that you are doing more man things than weak feminine or girl things....than you will usually be
successful.
What does headOriginally Posted by Gegogi
stuck in the doorway mean?? Are you talking about inserting into the vagina?
I feel big ego is interchangeable
with self respect and confidence....They mean the same to me.
DD has someOriginally Posted by Rbt
very interesting teachings from what I have seen. I only have his origional ebook and have read his internet free
stuff. I dont think he is right about a lot of stuff but I think there are some basic things he hits head on but
just doesnt know how to explain in a way that makes much real world sense. I agree with everything you say on this.
Where I do agree with DD is on his biological concepts and how he feels they manifest. There are some basic things
that a lot know but some dont...that he is dead on with. We all know to get a girl you dont act like one. That only
works for the rare person that has a bunch of complex things going his way (Gegogi). It certainly would not and has
not worked for me and I wouldn't do it anyways. In fact if a girl really wins me over and I start acting a little
sappy or girly it kills the attraction between us. Everyone should know that what attracts a women on a biological
sexual level is a strong man. A bad boy or adventuring risk taker or a deep intelligent philosophical person. Not
the Therapist or the whiner or the crybaby. Then again some of the stuff he tells you to say is just retarded. He
also takes things too far a lot with some of his concepts. His basic teaching and theory makes complete sense when i
look back on mistakes and successes and try to look at the behavior that may have cause my successes and failures.
Some of his ways of practicing his theory or carrying it out is close to insanity however. I fear for the teenagers
who get ahold of his stuff and practice it word for word instead of just being themselves and trying to become more
of a man from within.
Having big ego is aI feel big ego is
interchangeable with self respect and confidence....They mean the same to me.
negative thing and is normally used as a criticism or derogatory comment. Someone with a big ego is a narcissist
suffering from an over inflated image of their abilities and self-worth. They make poor leaders and team players. In
other words, a self-centered ass. Having self-respect and supreme confidence in your real abilities comes with the
terriority of being a real man.
"I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi
So in your definition T.O would be a great example of someone with a bigOriginally Posted by Gegogi
ego right?
Who's T.O.?
If you're Donald Trump you can have a free pass on the oversized ego and
still have people happy to call you MISTER Trump and even he's a lot mellower and politically savvy behind the
scenes.... the man is, however, seriously determined to achieve his goals. Time Magazine recently had an article on
what it took to succeed. The one quality that stood out above all others was *tenacity*, the power to motivate
yourself and stick to a project. If you have a huge ego and no tenacity, you're a massive jerk waiting to be blown
off. Develop abilities, learn to cook, (something, anything... have about 6 things you can do as well as any
restaurant), ballroom dancing is excellent, you have to learn to sense fine changes in your partner and flow as a
unit (is there any wonder that once upon a time this art was considered essential to social development ? ) ,live
overseas and experience people who aren't exisiting in your political groove, join a Second City or Upright
Citizens Brigade improv group and flex your comedic skills.... anything... multiple anythings, get out of your rut
as many ways as you possibly can before it is dug so deep there's no way to see over the top.
The local high schools have doing this project where adult role models are
asked to give a talk to freshman high school classes on what they need to succede in the world. We stress education
both in depth and variety but more importantly, we stress the other factors. The social skills that combine with
work ethic to make a person a real valuable employee rather than one of the crowd. Part of the point is that you can
have a tremendous education and work your butt off but unless you can work with others, have the right attitude
about your work and be flexible in your outlook you will not be all that great an employee. Others with less
education but better social skills will likely move ahead of you. Being able to justify yourself is not nearly so
important as being open to learning and working with people cooperatively.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
there are soooo many times when I've personally seen someone who had most of the ingredients
for success in business, with women or men, socially, any interpersonal area, blown clean out of the water by some
tendency or quirk that they can't see or refuse to see. There was a sexy girl who had the worst, most obnoxious,
piercing laugh that she would squawk out every 30 seconds, it was like she was unconsciously trying to piss everbody
off, which she did an excellent job of, or a guy I remember from a corporate setting who was constantly licking his
lips in the weirdest way, like he was expressing a forbidden fantasy nonstop, everybody just ran from this guy... or
in character acting classes where someone changes place with me and I with him, I take on his persona and he takes
on mine, it was really shocking to see myself the first time this way, good and bad, warts and all... I instantly
got why others would respond to me the way they did, straighened my ass up real quick.... dayummmm, I was coming off
like THAT ! Ahem..... cough.... OUCH!!!!!!!!!
maybe we should all read :
VITAL LIES SIMPLE TRUTHS: The
Psychology of Self Deception by Daniel Goleman
Terell Owens of the Eagles Nfl football team. He is one of the best at his position in the gameOriginally Posted by valentines_garden
right now but he was suspended for the rest of the year for contact detrimental to the team. Basically his passion
for the game is based solely on his own personal gain. He looks out for himself first and foremost. This is not a
bad thing if you are ethical and have some respect and compassion unfortunately he feels the need to illustrate this
by putting his teamates and organization down publically.
arrogant assholes have their place, like at the head of the line into the
slaughterhouse... looks like the ideal 21st century Alpha Man is better balanced than his 20th century primate
counterpart, master team player instead of rough tough mister stud... you gotta have mucho self knowledge with a
focus on understanding your real abilities and limits, since a lot of young guys don't, the man with high self
knowledge has a powerful advantage in love, sex, and business...
I have met and been friends or acquantances with plenty of Alpha guys who were very muchOriginally Posted by surfs_up
typical to the extreme. I have roomed with many alpha guys. An alpha is an alpha and just like anybody else they
have their strengths and their weaknesses. Their strenth tends to be in social likability and manhood. Some are more
caring and compassionate and confident than others but all of them are alpha because they back up their words in
some way or another. Some alpha guys are arrogant and others are not arrogant. Regardless of that another constant
is they sure as hell do not care what someone else thinks about them. I have always believed that the real man, the
pure alpha male, will brush off the jealousy or the tendancy others may have to seek approval from him in some form
or another....the true alpha needs not even address it. However I have met many and roomed with many that will
completely destroy and humiliate someone who comes after them out of their own insecurities or judgement. I have met
some that even go after a clearly innocent person to make their point and establish their dominance to the group. A
leader who tends to draw attention that has something about their personality and character that draws others is the
easiest way I can think of to describe alpha. There are jerky or aggressive alpha men and there are confident and
laid back alpha men. I pride myself on being the latter. I dont even need or want the spotlight yet It seems in a
group I am often handed it. Some alphas even start out one way and end up another way ((Watch Scarface)). Some live
by the law and others dont. None give a damn what anyone thinks...especially those that symbolize crabs in a jar
trying to drag them back to their level. So no.... I gotta disagree here. I mean there are differences between an
alpha of 21st century but the basic definitions and variations of the personality remain the same. I definately
think that an Alpha is a team player in a sense but I can also tell you that an Alpha will stick up for his way of
thinking and for what he believes in and if you want to contest him...teammate or not....you will have your hands
full. That has been my experience with the real hardcore guys anyways. Personally I believe there is room for
variance in opinion and that everyone has a point. It comes down to which point is your point of view in the end
though.
Authority comes from many things, having good judgement and being recognized for it,
being a good leader, a sense of fairness, basically being seen as a quality person who has the guts to take care of
things that others might shy away from, being a good negotiator, not constantly having to overcompensate for
something missing by putting on a big macho act... authority is something that people sense but can't
define...
Intimidation or being overbearing is different material, it's based on missing the capacity to
feel what someone else is going through or rule through brute thuggishness.
If you have real authority you
rise to the top of organizations, if all you're riding on is a capacity to intimidate the best job you'll get is
the bouncer or doorman at a club, or the equivalent of that.
People with authority are excellent listeners,
although they aren't pushovers, they know how to analyse situations, and they aren't easily offended, because they
know the value of just criticism and the importance of hearing things that the don't immediately agree
with.
Intimidators hear criticism (or just plain accurate observations) as a personal affront, let me
rephrase that, they DON'T hear criticism... they tune it out, shout it down, or banish it from their little
kingdoms... they love to tell others what jerks and assholes they are, especially persons who aren't in a position
to respond directly... they eventually WILL learn one of the most basic rules of life...
Goes like this: "be
nice to the people you meet on your way up, because you'll meet them again on your way down"
no truer words
were ever spoken.
An alpha, which is a term used
to describe natural orders, is a leader. The alpha is responsible for the well being of those around him. Thus a
true alpha would never slam his teammates. Instead, he would be doing his best to help them to be better at what
they do. Slamming them only serves to demoralize the whole group and that is bad for the teams performance.
I've known lots of very talented jackasses, the lack of an alpha's characteristics does not preclude their
ability to rise in corporations or society in general. Those that you describe may be alphas by your defination but
not by any realistic defination based on the true meaning of the term.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
No no Belgareth....I am not talking aboutOriginally Posted by belgareth
jerks or jackasses. I am talking about Alpha males. Sadly just because you are a jerk or a jackass does not strip
that Alpha title. You can define it however you want to based on any definition you want. An Alpha male is simply
the leader or dominant male to males in a social circle and females want his cock. There are no rules to their
personality that strip their Alpha title. Now I have no time to debate what a Alpha male is with you. I gotta go get
a buzz on. Besides I believe this has been done more than once before....Peace.
Originally Posted by surfs_up
That is one of the best
posts I have ever seen on this site. Good one Dude!!
It's been done time and again. Despite that, and despite your opinion, there is aOriginally Posted by DUKE3100
real genuine scientific definition for an alpha and what you described does not fit that description in either the
animal kingdom or in modern psychology.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Terell Owens is a lone wolf, not
an alpha male.
"I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi
yeah, it's true I've seem 'em as well; weasels, liars, creeps, manipulators, general head cases,
selfish slimeballs that have been exceptioanlly effective and/or successful... so I don't know how far this alpha
distinction perfectly accounts for everything out there... there's a valuable book about the sociopatic personality
by Martha Stout PhD, "The Sociopath Next Door"... she's a specialist in the sociopathic disorder and knows whereof
she speaks... according to her "life is reduced to a contest...controlling others-winning-is more compelling than
anything or any else...they theorize that all people are the same-unscrupulous, like them - but theorize that all
people are dishonestly playacting something mythical called conscience... (and here's a fascinating part) what
sociopaths envy, and may seek to destroy as part of the game, is usually something in the character structure of a
person with a conscience, and strong characters are often specially targeted by sociopaths (!wow)... and... the
intense charm of people who have no conscience, a kind of inexplicable charisma...yet... actively campaigns for your
sympathy"... this book was pretty mind boggling, and I have no doubt that a certain percentage of hardcore seduction
players are sociopaths or borderline sociopaths that have mastered the benevolent Alpha disguise... something to
ponder
Thanks, Surfs up. I'll look it
up, it sounds like it may be good reading.
No, I'm not trying to get picky about semantics but you can't
really have a debate when basic terms used in the debate have completely different meanings. It seems reasonable to
use correct definitions to avoid confussion.
My ex-mother in law is a PhD psychologist. We've had numerous
conversations on the subject of dominance and the relationship between the animal kingdom and us humans. A lot of it
is extremely uncomplimentary to us people. Between what I learned in collge and what she taught me I believe you've
hit it right on the money with the sociopathy comments.
While it was fiction, much of the character Hannibal
Lector is based on good phychological principle. He would be the epitome of a true sociopath. Without the
cannibalism you can see many examples of the same behavoir in society, as you described.
Last edited by belgareth; 11-27-2005 at 06:12 AM.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
I went and did a search to the Free dictionary just for you man. Here was one of theOriginally Posted by belgareth
definitions:
Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one's sex. Used of social animals
Thats just another way of saying what I was saying.
True...I was using T.O as an example of someone with too much of a BIGOriginally Posted by Gegogi
EGO.
I think your probably right. A player that is soOriginally Posted by surfs_up
deep in that all he cares about is the next girl he will land with a game that has nothing to do with his
personality either
A) has an extreme case of nimphomania
B) Is acting on deep desires to be an actor
C)
Has some sort of mental disorder like a gambler
D) Is a sociopath (This one is a little far fetched but I am
sure sociopaths are well versed with their skills, especially those that prey on women)
That's an over-simplification but I think you know that. I imagine you could describe your workOriginally Posted by DUKE3100
in a single sentence too. But I also imagine it would take at least a page and probably a lot more to really tell
what you do. There are volumes written on what comprises an alpha characteristic and that doesn't even begin to
touch it.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
some
studies of baboon societies have shown that good leadership and destructive leadership in the highest rank male
depends a lot on the "character" of the animal. Baboons can have generous, kind, nurturing father figure type Alpha
that sometimes are replaced, by age, combat, or "invasion" by an outside group with bad-Alphas that are surly,
vindictive, murderous.... and determined to produce large numbers of offspring like themselves. One interesting
thing is that the baboon societies will tolerate this warped Alpha conduct up to a point, when there can be
spontaneous rebellions by the female members of the clan who will mob, injure, and possibly bite to death the
bad-Alpha, unless he is unusually powerful and intimidating. If the bad-Alpha survives he ususally is demoted to the
lowest social position and has to earn his place back. In one case a baboon clan was taken over by bad-Alpha stock
who dominated the food supply, leaving all the betas to forage while the Alpha inner circle got to feast on the town
dump out in Kenya somewhere... sadly for the Alpha crowd, there was a tuberculosis epidemic in the village, and all
the Alphas died swiftly from TB, leaving a pure Beta population, which shunned the village and the dump, lacking the
Alpha fearlessness of humans.... the primate zoologists studying this baboon society observed that the clan, now
free of the bad-Alpha element (and their genetics too ?) reorganized itself into a harmonious, well behaved society
and returned to the bush and appeared to thrive doing tradtional monkey things and staying well away from humans. I
don't know if there is a relationship between bad-Alphaness in monkeys and sociopathy or anti-social behavior in
humans, however sociopathic and related personalities are noted for a love of adventure and excessive risk taking,
they have a diminished experience of fear, they don't form lasting emotional bonds, and they are highly promiscuous
(all of that is a recipe for a playa on several levels).... this is supposedly why the sociopathic genes persist in
modern humans, they produce a lot of unclaimed kids, according to Dr. Stout, about 1:25 people today has some degree
of sociopathic disorder... actually, a moderate dose of it may make certain people highly effective in jobs where
hustling and getting over is required.... anybody remember a company down in Houston known as Enron ?
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Bookmarks