2nd-graders caught in murder plot?!

[Sexyredhead]

I really don\'t think they totally realize what they were planning to do, but still.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Three Boys

Arrested in Plot to Shoot Third Grader

Thursday, March 18, 2004

FORSYTH, Mont.: Two second-grade boys and

an 11-year-old schoolmate were arrested after they buried a loaded handgun in a playground sandbox and plotted to

shoot and stab a third-grade girl during recess, authorities said Thursday.



Sheriff Tim Fulton said the

boys intended to harm the young girl because she had teased two of them.

The plot included a .22-caliber

revolver and a boxently brought the weapons from home to school on Wednesday morning, prosecutor Michael Hayworth

said. The intent was to assault the girl over the recess hour that day, he said.

\"You think about what could

have happened. It could have been ugly,\" said Brenda Stabelfeldt, who has a daughter in the fifth grade and went

to the school over the lunch hour Thursday to give the girl a hug.

Fulton said classmate of the two younger

boys, both 8, was the one who alerted the school of the plot.

\"I need to commend that young man for such a

brave act,\" the sheriff said. \"He saved the lives of who knows how many people.\"

The boys were identified

in court records as Klint Cook and Levi Strait, both second-graders, and Blake Belgarde, a fifth-grader. They were

charged Thursday in juvenile court with conspiracy to commit assault with a weapon.

In Montana (search), the

names of juvenile suspects are public if the crimes they are accused of committing are felonies in adult court.



Forsyth (search) is about 100 miles east of (search). The school has about 200 students in kindergarten through

the sixth grade.

\"Needless to say, it is a frightening experience for a community and our schools,\"

Superintendent Dave Shreeve said. \"We believe it\'s an isolated incident but it does bring into reality that

this can happen in any place at any time.\"

[Sagacious1420]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[bundyburger]

The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was

fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from wrong and the consequences of what was about to

happen.

Fricken scary anyway. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[EXIT63]

Okay,

So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,

So how come the gun owning

parents weren\'t arrested?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Do you think they should\'ve been?

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,

So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Do you think they should\'ve been?

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

If the gun and ammunition was where a child could get a hold of it, YES!

I am not anti-gun

whatsoever and own several myself. However, there is a responsibility that goes with owning a firearm.

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,

So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Do you think they should\'ve been?

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Heck yeah! If the child had access to the parents gun....lock em up

[EXIT63]

It\'s happening again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Come here Exit

and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go

back to butting heads any day now.

[Sexyredhead]

What about the parents of the boy who brought the knife?

[EXIT63]

Knives aren\'t registered weapons.

however, under the Exit 63 Parental Responsibility Act, I\'m sure we

could charge them with negligence. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[thingscouldwork]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Heck yeah! If the child had access to

the parents gun....lock em up

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

True that! It\'s their

responsibility to keep their children (and their friends/foes [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] )

safe from their firearms!!

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,

So

how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Do you think

they should\'ve been?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Heck yeah! If the child had access to

the parents gun....lock em up

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Agreed- -and I\'m a gun owner

and trained shooter, myself.

My father, like many people from Michigan, had an extensive gun collection. The

guns AND ammo were always kept locked up-- separately.

Prolly could also use some serious family therapy, for

those kids, and their parents.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand

what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from

wrong and the consequences of what was about to happen.

Fricken scary anyway.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, in my

house, we were exposed to guns when we were tiny children-- and educated re: their potential harm. None of us would

have considered hurting anyone with one-- even had they not been kept locked up.

[CJ01]

This

is quiete insane. At that age we had pocket knives maybe but we knew better than to attack others with them even

when I was mega pissed off with someone I´d have never dreamed of doing that

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
Parents who give their kids easy access to weapons and don´t

manage to teach their kids right from wrong shouldn´t be allowed to own weapons fullstop. And those kids need a

good verbal blasting to get some decency drilled into their young sad minds.

[DrSmellThis]

There\'s virtually always a lot going on with the parents, and siblings, when kids do that. I

agree that the parents should be held responsible.

Guns are hard to keep safe in homes with children. Kids

find keys, or someone forgets to lock something. If you have seriously emotionally disturbed kids, even if

they\'re apparently neither suicidal nor homicidal, owning guns is probably just a very bad idea, even

though we have a right to have them. Countless things could happen. I bet there were major warning signs years ago,

which makes the parents doubly responsible.

On the other hand, PET scans of the kid\'s brains would

probably be remarkable too. Major chemical imbalances are also likely. But this kind of disturbance doesn\'t just

appear suddenly some morning.

Everybody needs a ton of therapy (with somebody good, like me

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) and/or psychiatric treatment. Child Protective Services need to

be heavily involved in home as well.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Come here Exit and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been

feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go back to butting heads any day now.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ya\'all jes\' don\'t unerstan me, is all.

It\'s all about

freedom and the responsibilities that go with it. Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but

each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses. The only

laws I accept are the ones that amount to not harming others.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What about the parents of the boy who brought the

knife?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Same thing. Aren\'t they responsible for the actions of

their child?

[OCP]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on

another person but each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the

consequenses.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is not true. Societies throughout history

have impossed the collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in

now because of the mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind

that is that there is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten

to the core. There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want

to!

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but each of us

has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is not true. Societies throughout history have impossed the

collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in now because of the

mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind that is that there

is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten to the core.

There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want to!

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You\'ve got it backwards. I have no right to interfere with your right

to live. Just because it has always been done that way does not make it right. If that were the case we\'d all be

living in trees or caves or performing human sacrifices. That is one of the weakest arguments you can offer! We are

in large part in the predicament we are in because society imposses it\'s will on the individual rather than teach

a person to make good choices. Society\'s rules take away the reponsibility for ones actions, substituting it for

conforming to the rules of that society. Look at all the horrors we have inflicted on our fellow man as a result;

Witch burnings, pogroms, the crusades, the inquisistions, bigotry and hatred, corporate rip-offs and on and on.

Those are all products of your status quo.

[tallmacky]

Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you

have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are

with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your

house has to accept.

Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that

is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just

EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,

and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because

their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.

So watch

out for Chucky. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So watch out for Chucky.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> huh what he´s here? You mean you saw....

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to

hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of

evens out the playing field a bit more. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think that right is a bit

overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that

you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.

Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents

until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than

other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to

violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can

be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large

percentage of it usually.

So watch out for Chucky. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a

gun? To protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones

when Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government,

who is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any

normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many

are proud to have.

Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk

drivers than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.

[CJ01]

Many

people that own guns are not normal and responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.

[tallmacky]

I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sure you can own a gun why not, any laws prohibiting are

impossible people will still do what people do, or go underground with it, discussing whether people should of

shouldn\'t almost does not make sense as taking a gun away from a gun owner is like snatching a 20 from a

prostitute. I have not personally felt the need to pack firepower, I know the issue \"protecting my family\" is

also brought up, but I don\'t know how the wild west is out there in Texas. If I was living in a tougher crime

rate enduced place, then yes. I wasn\'t specifically saying that one should not own a gun, I said if you keep guns

in your house no matter how safe you are you will always run that small possiblity of someone getting hurt or

getting ahold of the gun(s)....not that it is likely as you said with your statisics.

[tallmacky]

Most people who own guns generally distrust the government....I just don\'t see as living in America the great

need of protecting your family especially those who live in suburbs.

I do not know what you have been through,

have you ever been attacked by someone, or at a point where you needed a gun for self defense....I also think people

like the power of having a gun, they get off to it, and they love shooting it like blowing a load, and there is no

way to ever know if everyone who has a gain is a responsible up standing member of society.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was

that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> yeah.

There´s traits we have from birth and others we pick up as we get older. Some people are just cool and others are

just )§&amp;$&amp;/$&amp;(. Kids who fuke up can still turn out okay I guess

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] but not if they start killing in the 2nd grade

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[DrSmellThis]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if

you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a

spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think

that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run

a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.

Let\'s face it, we can talk

about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids

are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter,

quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all

children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand,

though that is a large percentage of it usually.

So watch out for Chucky.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Kids

aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain diseased to where parents can\'t make everything all better (violence

often = frontal, temporal lobe problems). I\'ve never seen anything approaching an \"evil kid\" as a child

psychologist, and I\'ve worked with tons of \"very bad\" ones over the years. The ones that looked the worst

often ended up being my favorites to work with.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Many people that own guns are not normal and

responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Again, the same can be applied to car owners, bat owners, knife owners etc. In every case, the

majority are responsible. If you want to be picky about it, I could do a pretty complete job on somebody with my

walking stick and it isn\'t registered either. Picking at gun ownership is nonsense.

[tallmacky]

Don\'t turn around on them Dr.smellthis they may grab a pencil and create a bunch of lead holes in your back,

then duct tape your mouth shut and throw you into a bathtub where they pour soap all over you.....

Do you see the

danger? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]