[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
I really don\'t think they totally realize what they were planning to do, but still.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Three Boys
Arrested in Plot to Shoot Third Grader
Thursday, March 18, 2004
FORSYTH, Mont.: Two second-grade boys and
an 11-year-old schoolmate were arrested after they buried a loaded handgun in a playground sandbox and plotted to
shoot and stab a third-grade girl during recess, authorities said Thursday.
Sheriff Tim Fulton said the
boys intended to harm the young girl because she had teased two of them.
The plot included a .22-caliber
revolver and a boxently brought the weapons from home to school on Wednesday morning, prosecutor Michael Hayworth
said. The intent was to assault the girl over the recess hour that day, he said.
\"You think about what could
have happened. It could have been ugly,\" said Brenda Stabelfeldt, who has a daughter in the fifth grade and went
to the school over the lunch hour Thursday to give the girl a hug.
Fulton said classmate of the two younger
boys, both 8, was the one who alerted the school of the plot.
\"I need to commend that young man for such a
brave act,\" the sheriff said. \"He saved the lives of who knows how many people.\"
The boys were identified
in court records as Klint Cook and Levi Strait, both second-graders, and Blake Belgarde, a fifth-grader. They were
charged Thursday in juvenile court with conspiracy to commit assault with a weapon.
In Montana (search), the
names of juvenile suspects are public if the crimes they are accused of committing are felonies in adult court.
Forsyth (search) is about 100 miles east of (search). The school has about 200 students in kindergarten through
the sixth grade.
\"Needless to say, it is a frightening experience for a community and our schools,\"
Superintendent Dave Shreeve said. \"We believe it\'s an isolated incident but it does bring into reality that
this can happen in any place at any time.\"
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was
fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from wrong and the consequences of what was about to
happen.
Fricken scary anyway. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning
parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
If the gun and ammunition was where a child could get a hold of it, YES!
I am not anti-gun
whatsoever and own several myself. However, there is a responsibility that goes with owning a firearm.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Heck yeah! If the child had access to the parents gun....lock em up
It\'s happening again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Come here Exit
and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go
back to butting heads any day now.
What about the parents of the boy who brought the knife?
Knives aren\'t registered weapons.
however, under the Exit 63 Parental Responsibility Act, I\'m sure we
could charge them with negligence. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Heck yeah! If the child had access to
the parents gun....lock em up
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
True that! It\'s their
responsibility to keep their children (and their friends/foes [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] )
safe from their firearms!!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Okay,
So
how come the gun owning parents weren\'t arrested?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Do you think
they should\'ve been?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Heck yeah! If the child had access to
the parents gun....lock em up
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Agreed- -and I\'m a gun owner
and trained shooter, myself.
My father, like many people from Michigan, had an extensive gun collection. The
guns AND ammo were always kept locked up-- separately.
Prolly could also use some serious family therapy, for
those kids, and their parents.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The 2nd graders, yeah sure, they may not understand
what they were doing. The brain, I thought, was fully developed by 11 or 12 years old and would know right from
wrong and the consequences of what was about to happen.
Fricken scary anyway.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Well, in my
house, we were exposed to guns when we were tiny children-- and educated re: their potential harm. None of us would
have considered hurting anyone with one-- even had they not been kept locked up.
This
is quiete insane. At that age we had pocket knives maybe but we knew better than to attack others with them even
when I was mega pissed off with someone I´d have never dreamed of doing that
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
Parents who give their kids easy access to weapons and don´t
manage to teach their kids right from wrong shouldn´t be allowed to own weapons fullstop. And those kids need a
good verbal blasting to get some decency drilled into their young sad minds.
There\'s virtually always a lot going on with the parents, and siblings, when kids do that. I
agree that the parents should be held responsible.
Guns are hard to keep safe in homes with children. Kids
find keys, or someone forgets to lock something. If you have seriously emotionally disturbed kids, even if
they\'re apparently neither suicidal nor homicidal, owning guns is probably just a very bad idea, even
though we have a right to have them. Countless things could happen. I bet there were major warning signs years ago,
which makes the parents doubly responsible.
On the other hand, PET scans of the kid\'s brains would
probably be remarkable too. Major chemical imbalances are also likely. But this kind of disturbance doesn\'t just
appear suddenly some morning.
Everybody needs a ton of therapy (with somebody good, like me
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) and/or psychiatric treatment. Child Protective Services need to
be heavily involved in home as well.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s happening again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Come here Exit and let me hold you. Don\'t be afraid. Bel has been
feeling a bit under the weather and I am sure you two will go back to butting heads any day now.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Ya\'all jes\' don\'t unerstan me, is all.
It\'s all about
freedom and the responsibilities that go with it. Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but
each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses. The only
laws I accept are the ones that amount to not harming others.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What about the parents of the boy who brought the
knife?
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Same thing. Aren\'t they responsible for the actions of
their child?
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on
another person but each of us has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the
consequenses.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is not true. Societies throughout history
have impossed the collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in
now because of the mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind
that is that there is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten
to the core. There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want
to!
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font
class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Nobody has the right to impose their will on another person but each of us
has an obligation to take full responsibilty for all of our actions or suffer the consequenses.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
This is not true. Societies throughout history have impossed the
collective will over individual and rightly so.
We are partly in the predicument that we are in now because of the
mentality that we have \"no right to impose our will on someone else\". The philosophy behind that is that there
is no moral absolute and what is right for you may not be right for me. This philosophy is rotten to the core.
There are absolutes in this life and I have the right to impose my will to live on you anytime I want to!
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
You\'ve got it backwards. I have no right to interfere with your right
to live. Just because it has always been done that way does not make it right. If that were the case we\'d all be
living in trees or caves or performing human sacrifices. That is one of the weakest arguments you can offer! We are
in large part in the predicament we are in because society imposses it\'s will on the individual rather than teach
a person to make good choices. Society\'s rules take away the reponsibility for ones actions, substituting it for
conforming to the rules of that society. Look at all the horrors we have inflicted on our fellow man as a result;
Witch burnings, pogroms, the crusades, the inquisistions, bigotry and hatred, corporate rip-offs and on and on.
Those are all products of your status quo.
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you
have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are
with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your
house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that
is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just
EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing,
and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because
their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch
out for Chucky. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So watch out for Chucky.
<hr
/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> huh what he´s here? You mean you saw....
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if you like to
hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a spear, it kind of
evens out the playing field a bit more. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think that right is a bit
overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run a small risk that
you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk about the parents
until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids are just worse than
other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter, quicker, more prone to
violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all children are sweet as can
be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand, though that is a large
percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Is there some reason a person should not be allowed to own a
gun? To protect them from themselves? Look up some crime rate statistics. A good set are the before and after ones
when Florida became a concealed carry state. I hate to sound militant but do you really believe that the government,
who is so weak in punishing criminals is going to protect me and my family? Even despite that, why shouldn\'t any
normal, responsible person be able to own a gun? If nothing else, accurate shooting is a hard won skill that many
are proud to have.
Reality is that more people are killed by car accidents, incompetent doctors and drunk
drivers than are even injured by non-criminal gun owners.
Many
people that own guns are not normal and responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.
I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Sure you can own a gun why not, any laws prohibiting are
impossible people will still do what people do, or go underground with it, discussing whether people should of
shouldn\'t almost does not make sense as taking a gun away from a gun owner is like snatching a 20 from a
prostitute. I have not personally felt the need to pack firepower, I know the issue \"protecting my family\" is
also brought up, but I don\'t know how the wild west is out there in Texas. If I was living in a tougher crime
rate enduced place, then yes. I wasn\'t specifically saying that one should not own a gun, I said if you keep guns
in your house no matter how safe you are you will always run that small possiblity of someone getting hurt or
getting ahold of the gun(s)....not that it is likely as you said with your statisics.
Most people who own guns generally distrust the government....I just don\'t see as living in America the great
need of protecting your family especially those who live in suburbs.
I do not know what you have been through,
have you ever been attacked by someone, or at a point where you needed a gun for self defense....I also think people
like the power of having a gun, they get off to it, and they love shooting it like blowing a load, and there is no
way to ever know if everyone who has a gain is a responsible up standing member of society.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I guess I strayed away from my point, my point was
that some children are just little damn Demons from hell.
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> yeah.
There´s traits we have from birth and others we pick up as we get older. Some people are just cool and others are
just )§&$&/$&(. Kids who fuke up can still turn out okay I guess
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] but not if they start killing in the 2nd grade
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why do people even own guns? I mean if
you like to hunt animals I guess that is an ok reason, but wouldn\'t you have more fun hunting a deer with a
spear, it kind of evens out the playing field a bit more. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I think
that right is a bit overrated....No matter how safe you are with that, if you had kids in your house, you still run
a small risk that you have to accept and everyone in your house has to accept.
Let\'s face it, we can talk
about the parents until we are blue in the face, and that is probably a \'cause of the situation, but some kids
are just worse than other kids. Basically some kids are just EVIL. In this world we have those that are smarter,
quicker, more prone to violence, sexual abuse, serial killing, and these fundementals apply to children. Not all
children are sweet as can be, and not all of them act bad because their parents weren\'t there to slap their hand,
though that is a large percentage of it usually.
So watch out for Chucky.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Kids
aren\'t evil, IMO, but they can be brain diseased to where parents can\'t make everything all better (violence
often = frontal, temporal lobe problems). I\'ve never seen anything approaching an \"evil kid\" as a child
psychologist, and I\'ve worked with tons of \"very bad\" ones over the years. The ones that looked the worst
often ended up being my favorites to work with.
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Many people that own guns are not normal and
responsible though, that´s the main problem I think TM was thinking of.
<hr /></blockquote><font
class=\"post\">
Again, the same can be applied to car owners, bat owners, knife owners etc. In every case, the
majority are responsible. If you want to be picky about it, I could do a pretty complete job on somebody with my
walking stick and it isn\'t registered either. Picking at gun ownership is nonsense.
Don\'t turn around on them Dr.smellthis they may grab a pencil and create a bunch of lead holes in your back,
then duct tape your mouth shut and throw you into a bathtub where they pour soap all over you.....
Do you see the
danger? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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