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  1. #1
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Bruce:

    Stone labs usesa more costly manufacturing process for their pheromones, making for less impurities?

    Correct?

    The impurities cause a lot of the pheromone stink from what I hve read. I have AFA from stone labs,

    and it is 1:1 none:nol and it is virtually scentless.

    I love lacroy\'s products, but the cat piss of te and

    npa makes it harder to discreetly where it, and also you can\'t get away with as much. And in the process of

    covering it, it is easy to scent OD.

    I wouldn\'t mine paying an extra 5 bucks per product to get the

    pheromones in their purer. The smell issues are annoying.

  2. #2
    Administrator Bruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    Even

    after all these years in the business, I am still not sure what to make of this -pheromone smell is a question of

    purity- position. I have the highest oppinion of Stone Labs and I know they stand on that platform or used to, but

    as far as I can see, some pheromnes have a strong smell to them and some do not. You can\'t get that smell out

    without destroying the pheromone. I will go so far as to say that that smell is your sign of purity; your signal

    that you have the real deal there. Androstenone smells like urine for a reason, and that reason is that urine

    smells like urine because of the androstenone in it. Urine smell and androstenone go together like water and

    wet.

    Animals smell the urine left by other animals and they can tell whether the animal is male or female, young

    or old, agressive or passive, sexually active, and on and on all because urine has pheromones in it. I would be

    very surprised to learn that you could somehow purify urine and expect it was still going to be able to do its

    pheromone magic.

    Specifically, about the AFA/Edge comparison: AFA contains NOL which in fact has very little

    smell (regardless of whether you \"purify\" it or not) and Edge contains no NOL but rather other pheromones that

    obviously do add to the \"bouquet\" as it were of the final brew. So, after years of hearing the occasional

    argument that pheromones smell like urine because they have not been purified enough, I have yet to see/smell any

    proof of that and simple reason would indicate otherwise.

    Bruce

  3. #3
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    From

    biology stuff I have been reading, it was my understanding that all pheromones are odorless to begin with, and that

    the bacteria interaction is what gives them their smell.

    I guess one could ask the question, when does a

    chemical become a working pheromone? Immediately after it is released to the skin (and still odorless?) or after it

    interacts with bacteria (and starts gaining odor).

    Whatever stone labs does is some good stuff...AFA still

    has an A-none which barely smells. Granted it doesn\'t have the secret ingredient(s) but of every other pheromone

    I have smelled, none is the only bad smelling stuff. A-1, rone, nol, wagg all seem to be okay. I even like the

    smell of a-1.

    When I keep reading pheromones are odorless chemicals, I think, it would be damn nice if we

    could have them that way. Perhaps calling them odorless is wrong. But if they are odorless in their purest form

    then impurities would seem to be the only thing that is making these things smell.

  4. #4
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    LaCroy does focus on purity and pride themselves on it. The smelliest thing in Edge is neither -none nor a

    -none impurity!

    Good post, B!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I will go so far as to say that that smell is your

    sign of purity; your signal that you have the real deal there. Androstenone smells like urine for a reason, and

    that reason is that urine smells like urine because of the androstenone in it. Urine smell and androstenone go

    together like water and wet.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Finally!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] An answer to what I\'ve been wanting to ask you, Bruce, for over

    a year, but didn\'t want to start nutin\'...\"What if...greed for funds, the company starts putting less mones

    in the products, than what\'s listed on the label? Who would ever know, as for as the users are concerned?\"

    But, your statement cut on a light...the proof of those products are in their smell. Thanks!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] Water and wet...

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


    Now, back to the original scheduled program, still in

    progress...PURER INGREDIENTS........

  6. #6
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    From biology stuff I have been reading, it was my

    understanding that all pheromones are odorless to begin with, and that the bacteria interaction is what gives them

    their smell.

    I guess one could ask the question, when does a chemical become a working pheromone? Immediately

    after it is released to the skin (and still odorless?) or after it interacts with bacteria (and starts gaining

    odor).

    Whatever stone labs does is some good stuff...AFA still has an A-none which barely smells. Granted it

    doesn\'t have the secret ingredient(s) but of every other pheromone I have smelled, none is the only bad smelling

    stuff. A-1, rone, nol, wagg all seem to be okay. I even like the smell of a-1.

    When I keep reading pheromones

    are odorless chemicals, I think, it would be damn nice if we could have them that way. Perhaps calling them

    odorless is wrong. But if they are odorless in their purest form then impurities would seem to be the only thing

    that is making these things smell.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    If there is androstenone on

    your skin, then it will work as a pheromone without bacteria.

    The bacteria interaction stuff is about changing

    other compounds into pheromones, so you might have one precurser compound that bacteria change into many pheromones.

    The precurser isn\'t a pheromone in this case, but it can be (-nol is the precurser to -none for the -nol ---&gt;

    -none reaction).

  7. #7
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    Yes but do

    secretions immediately have the moleculer structure of androstenone (or any other pheromone for that matter) or do

    they become them once reactions start happening on the surface? Assuming the \"odorless\" statements are correct,

    if the secretions aren\'t a pheromone when they first hit the surface, it is pretty much irralavent that they do

    not smell, because they aren\'t transmitting signals either. If they are indeed working pheromones when they hit

    the surface, then maybe pheromones are actually odorless in their purest form.

    I have a feeling whoever is

    writing the odorless statements in these textbooks and articles, etc, may not know what they are talking about,

    however. But everthing is worth considering of course.

  8. #8
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    Yes, many who write about -mones in public don\'t know what they are talking about.

  9. #9
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    If there is androstenone on your skin, then it will

    work as a pheromone without bacteria.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Absolutely!

    Purell?



    Anyone ever see their hits fall off from preventing/limiting the presence of bacteria on the skin? Not me. But

    then again, maybe it\'s just me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    The bacteria interaction stuff is about changing other compounds into

    pheromones, so you might have one precurser compound that bacteria change into many pheromones. The precurser

    isn\'t a pheromone in this case, but it can be (-nol is the precurser to -none for the -nol ---&gt; -none

    reaction).

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Well said!

  10. #10
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes, many who write about -mones in public don\'t

    know what they are talking about.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    LOL!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes but do secretions immediately have the

    moleculer structure of androstenone (or any other pheromone for that matter) or do they become them once reactions

    start happening on the surface? Assuming the \"odorless\" statements are correct, if the secretions aren\'t a

    pheromone when they first hit the surface, it is pretty much irralavent that they do not smell, because they

    aren\'t transmitting signals either. If they are indeed working pheromones when they hit the surface, then maybe

    pheromones are actually odorless in their purest form.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Is it

    possible that you may either be confusing two different issues or merely over complicating things?

    Either way,

    it\'s irrelevent to actually getting out there and putting your pheros to work.

    Got a hit story I can borrow?


  12. #12
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    sorry, I

    can\'t explain it better than I already did. I am wondering if the so called \"odorless pheromones\" are just

    hormone metabolites or whatever that haven\'t become pheromones at the moleculer level.


  13. #13
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    sorry, I can\'t explain it better than I already

    did. I am wondering if the so called \"odorless pheromones\" are just hormone metabolites or whatever that

    haven\'t become pheromones at the moleculer level.



    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Pheromones come from hormones? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

  14. #14
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    SRH, if

    you think its fun to screw around, that\'s fine, but please play with someone else.

  15. #15
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    SRH, if you think its fun to screw around, but

    please play with someone else.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    No, that\'s a serious

    question. I don\'t get that part of what you said. Please explain.

  16. #16
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    SRH, if you think its fun to screw around, but please play with someone else.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    No, that\'s a serious question. I don\'t get that part of

    what you said. Please explain.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    You being serious?

  17. #17
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    SRH, if you

    think its fun to screw around, but please play with someone else.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    No, that\'s a serious question. I don\'t get that part of what you said. Please explain.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    You being serious?

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Yes. I don\'t understand that. I haven\'t heard it, haven\'t read it. If pheromones come

    from hormones or hormone metabolites, I\'d like to know how. Seriously.

  18. #18
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    hormones

    promones androgens i work at a freakin deli, this isn\'t my thing.

    When I try to learn about the stuff, I

    have read that what comes out of the body isn\'t necessarily the pheromone itself. I\'m not exactly sure, I

    work at a DELI!! Anyway their is some sort of process they go through. Like I said, the stuff I read could very

    well be wrong. But I am not so ure A-none is actually molecurlarly the same when it is in our bodies....

    I do

    think our hormones, androgens, whatever get to our skin and become the earmarkings of our interenal biology.

  19. #19
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    sorry, I can\'t explain it better than I already

    did. I am wondering if the so called \"odorless pheromones\" are just hormone metabolites or whatever that

    haven\'t become pheromones at the moleculer level.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Dude, you don\'t

    have to know/understand everything about pheros for them to work for you. Who cares? In the end does it really

    matter? As I sit here and type this, I don\'t fully understand everything about IT stuff but it doesn\'t

    matter...this message will end up posting on the forum nonetheless. Quite frankly, I don\'t care as long as it

    works for me.

    As far as your question at the beginning of this thread, it seems that you have been sufficiently

    answered. Just because pheros have a smell to them, doesn\'t have anything to do w/ the purity issue, or perhaps

    more correctly, could have everything to do w/ purity. By your own admission, Stone Labs is a very reputable

    company and provides extremely pure pheros. Like I said, your query was answered sufficiently. Pheros smell, even

    very pure ones. Fine. Why muck things up and overcomplicate things just because you didn\'t get the answer that

    you wanted, that your understanding of the impurities/smell issue may have been mistaken/misinformed or that you

    still don\'t fully understand the chemistry behind the whole thing? Who cares?

    Get out there, use your

    pheros, experiment, find out what works for you and share a phero report w/ us. All that really matters in the end

    is that you figure out what works for you.

  20. #20
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    Sag, if I

    tried to explain my reasoning this conversation would just go back and forth forever, with no real answers anyway.



  21. #21
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    hormones promones androgens i work at a freakin

    deli, this isn\'t my thing.

    When I try to learn about the stuff, I have read that what comes out of the

    body isn\'t necessarily the pheromone itself. I\'m not exactly sure, I work at a DELI!! Anyway their is some

    sort of process they go through. Like I said, the stuff I read could very well be wrong. But I am not so ure

    A-none is actually molecurlarly the same when it is in our bodies....

    I do think our hormones, androgens,

    whatever get to our skin and become the earmarkings of our interenal biology.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Does anyone else know anything about this that can explain it to me? This has me intrigued.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    SRH, if you think its fun to screw around,

    that\'s fine, but please play with someone else.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">Hold on there,

    dude. I think that\'s a bit uncalled for. SRH has just as much right to ask questions and try to understand what

    someone else meant by their post as anyone else. You know that we all like to have fun around

    here and you also know that we all have serious questions too. I\'m sure that you realize by her

    later posts. Don\'t be so uptight, dude. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    sorry, I can\'t explain it better than I already did. I am wondering if

    the so called \"odorless pheromones\" are just hormone metabolites or whatever that haven\'t become pheromones

    at the moleculer level.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Pheromones come from hormones?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
    God luv

    ya\', SRH!! Most pheromones come from the hormones pregnenolone and DHEA, which come from cholesterol. So eat them

    eggs! Not all pheromones (e.g., some copulins, intestinal pheromones) come from hormones, however. The big 3 come

    from testosterone. Some pheromones are pheromones when they get to your skin, others are only converted to

    pheromones upon reaching your skin.

    But a pheromone is any chemical that automatically communicates something

    about you to another animal. So that means a 12 pack of Pabst is a pheromone. I hope this clears things up.

  24. #24
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    sorry, I

    can\'t explain it better than I already did. I am wondering if the so called \"odorless pheromones\" are just

    hormone metabolites or whatever that haven\'t become pheromones at the moleculer level.



    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Pheromones come from hormones?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
    God luv

    ya\', SRH!! Most pheromones come from the hormones pregnenolone and DHEA, which come from cholesterol. So eat them

    eggs! Not all pheromones (e.g., some copulins, intestinal pheromones) come from hormones, however. The big 3 come

    from testosterone. Some pheromones are pheromones when they get to your skin, others are only converted to

    pheromones upon reaching your skin.

    But a pheromone is any chemical that automatically communicates something

    about you to another animal. So that means a 12 pack of Pabst is a pheromone. I hope this clears things up.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Yes, very nicely, thank you.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
    Unfortunately, most of the time when you guys start talking

    about DHEA and testosterone, my mind registers it as \'more penis talk\' and starts to wander other places.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    Pheromaniac Sexyredhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    You know, I have some time to turn my head to things other than where\' they\'ve been for a while, and this

    \'scientifical\' stuff (as FTR once said) is really piquing my interest. I will have to pay more attention to

    the more detailed threads from now on. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    So that means a 12 pack of Pabst is a

    pheromone.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    SRH-

    That explains why the beer spritz in your hair

    turns me on so much. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Sag, if I tried to explain my reasoning this

    conversation would just go back and forth forever, with no real answers anyway.


    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Buddy, You\'re questions have been answered...if anything goes back an forth it\'s because

    you don\'t want to accept the answers, imho. Not sure where you picked up this notion that pheros are odorless.

    Is it possible that those who assert that they\'re odorless are among the population of those who simply can\'t

    smell them?

  28. #28
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Purer Ingredients From Lacroy

    Bottom line:

    There is no such thing as a truely unscented pheromone*. You can dilute it and mask it\'s

    odour, but that doesn\'t make it odourless.


    *as far as I know. It certainly seems that none of the pheros we

    deal with are odourless.

  29. #29
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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  30. #30
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default

    Nice link! You appear to be

    correct. There's also an odorless A1 and -nol. Too bad there's so much secrecy and so little discussion, huh?

    Never underestimate what the perfuming industry knows about pheromones. They are much bigger than Erox/Pherin!



    Incidentally, they are not implying anything specific about the relation between sandalwood and steroid chemicals

    there. It's just two different sections listing fragrance compounds.

    But great information nonetheless, and a

    great resource in general.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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