This terrorist stuff is ridiculous

[DZorro]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
US Foreign Aid to those that hate us:

Egypt, for example, after voting

79% of the time against the United
States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes

71% against the United States and receives $192,814,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against

the United States receives $6,721,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States

receives $143,699,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

It is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings
back

to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes.



<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

F***kin ridiculous isn\'t it!?

Arafat has a BILLION DOLLARS in a Swiss bank

account.

Gee, I wonder where that money came from. And where it was supposed to go!

I\'ve had it.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

yes, well where funding terrorists so they can blow us away.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

DZorro,

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
US Foreign Aid to those that hate us:

Egypt, for example, after voting

79% of the time against the United
States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes

71% against the United States and receives $192,814,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against

the United States receives $6,721,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States

receives $143,699,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

It is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings
back

to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes.



<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

F***kin ridiculous isn\'t it!?

Arafat has a BILLION DOLLARS in a Swiss bank

account.

Gee, I wonder where that money came from. And where it was supposed to go!

I\'ve had it.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Your tax dollars at work. Aren\'t you glad we elected those kind, wise

and benevolent people to decide for us where our hard earned money should be spent? Aren\'t you ashamed of

thinking that it should go to the needy in our own country? Isn\'t it terrible to complain about paying nearly

half of our annual income to taxes that those fine people in Congress need to spend for us?

When are we the

people going to learn?

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


When are we the people going to learn?



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

\"The people\" have no choice. (as far as i know Ross Perot

is not participating in this year\'s elections [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) Both Republicans and Democrats like to spend loads of money on

more or less dubious things.

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


When are we the people going to learn?

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

\"The people\" have no choice. (as far as i know Ross Perot is not participating in this

year\'s elections [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) Both Republicans and Democrats like to spend loads of money on

more or less dubious things.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Apathetic answers like that are a

big part of the problem. The people have all the choice but refuse to act on it! Just because the democrats and

republicans are major parties doesn\'t mean you have to vote for them. Check out all the candidates, not just the

major ones and vote for somebody you believe will do the job the way you want it done. Voting for a major party

candidate just because you believe they have a chance to win guarantees perpetuation of the problems. Any candidate

can win if enough people learn the issues and vote for who you believe is the best candidate, not the party

affiliation.

The common misconception perpetuated by the government is that we are beholden to them. It\'s the

other way around. They are suppossed to be working for us. If you don\'t like the job they are doing, fire them!

That\'s waht the elections are all about.

[franki]

I think

it is wonderful that you are still so idealistic Bel! Most people lose their ideals etc. when they get older.



[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think it is wonderful that you are still so

idealistic Bel! Most people lose their ideals etc. when they get older.



[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Idealism is

often replaced by cynicism because reality is hard to deal with. But when you give up, you lose! Life has changed my

perspective over the years but that\'s called learning from experience. In the end, I will not willingly allow

somebody else to tell me how to live or use my earnings to support causes I don\'t agree with. If that\'s

idealism, then I guess I am an idealist. It is far better than to roll over and allow the kinds of abuses we see

every day. Why does everybody else seem to accept them as a matter of course?

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why does everybody else seem to accept them as a

matter of course?


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It\'s hard not to throw your hands up in

the air when you see the government spending 1 million dollars for a man to measure the rate the ketchup flows from

a bottle (this is true) and yet have to take away funding for after school programs in poor areas. We give them our

money and they use it to have $600.00 business lunches. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Why does everybody else seem to accept them as a matter of course?




<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It\'s hard not to throw your hands up in the air when you see

the government spending 1 million dollars for a man to measure the rate the ketchup flows from a bottle (this is

true) and yet have to take away funding for after school programs in poor areas. We give them our money and they use

it to have $600.00 business lunches. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

So, why do you accept it?

Voter apathy, throwing our hands up in

dispair, is what lead to this. Involvement, demanding the government represent the people can fix it. It took a long

time to get this broken, it\'s going to take a long time to get it fixed. It will only get fixed if people stop

hiding their heads and start making demands.

Read your history, this has happened time and again. Governments

become more a servant of the money and repress the general population in order to allow businesses to reap ever

greater profits. Sooner or later it comes to a head, two notable examples are the American revolution and the French

revolution. I prefer the idea of peaceful revolt through voting over any of the alternatives.

[belgareth]

There is the other side of the argument, where a government is allowed to become totally repressive, such as in

China or Iraq. Although China found that such a large population was difficult to keep repressed and has been forced

to loosen up in many ways. Remeber some of the things we\'ve seen from China over the years?

Am I being

alarmist? Read your history very carefully, and answer that for yourselves.

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So, why do you accept it?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The options we are given don\'t eliminate the problem. It isn\'t a

Democrat, Republican issue. They have been doing this for as long as I have been alive. I have a voice but I have

nobody listening

[EXIT63]

You

know why alot of this stuff will never change?

Because too many spoiled Americans are standing there with their

hands out saying:

GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME! (We\'re almost as bad as the Euros).

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

And so a politician comes along and says: Okay, vote for me

and I\'ll give you whatever you want.

You can blame whoever you want. But ultimately, people get the

government that they deserve.

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time

against the United
States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the

United States and receives $192,814,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States

receives $6,721,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States receives

$143,699,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Just think of all

the weapons, ammo, and body armor we could buy with that! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time

against the United
States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against

the United States and receives $192,814,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the

United States receives $6,721,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States

receives $143,699,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

If

you stop giving those countries money, they will buy european fighter jets next time, instead of american ones...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[belgareth]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So, why do you accept it?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



The options we are given don\'t eliminate the problem. It isn\'t a Democrat, Republican issue. They have

been doing this for as long as I have been alive. I have a voice but I have nobody listening

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That doesn\'t answer the question. Your right that it is not a party

issue, it\'s an across the board issue that we all need to take responsibilty for. It is not a matter of the

options you are given, it\'s a matter of thinking and deciding for yourself what is going to be best for this

country then acting on that.

Forgive me but Exit is right again, too many people saying gimme gimme. Nobody wants

to stand up and say \"Enough!\" Nobody wants to spend the time and the effort to learn the issues and vote for the

best candidate. Everybody wants utopia handed to them. They all want something for nothing and end up getting robbed

blind.

Until we collectively start dealing with the problem and stop expecting something for nothing, we are

going to keep getting screwed by the people who are supposed to represent us.

[Ash]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United
States,

still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.

Jordan votes 71% against the United States and receives

$192,814,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

Pakistan votes 75% against the United States receives

$6,721,000
annually in US Foreign Aid.

India votes 81% against the United States receives $143,699,000
annually

in US Foreign Aid.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

If you stop giving those countries money,

they will buy european fighter jets next time, instead of american ones...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

True!

[Ash]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I dont talk

about politics, and I wont start here. Only I want to make the point that the term \'old Europe\' does not mean

the same thing to every one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] your connotation are your own.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Point taken Bottle. It would probably have been better for

me to have written: The term \"Old Europe\" can have a rather bad connotation for some when connected to thoughts

about the Jews and the Middle East.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Personally I don\'t

see the connection between the Holocaust and not going to War against Iraq... It\'s a rather bold thing to

say...

The term Old and New Europe is highly arbitrarily.. Poland, a country with very much anti-semitism in

its past belongs to the \"New-Europe\"...

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

\"Personally I

don\'t see the connection between the Holocaust and not going to War against Iraq... It\'s a rather bold thing

to say...\"



Sorry it took so long to respond to this Franki but I\'ve been busy trying to talk one

of our Female members into meeting me in Sun Valley. I thought I had her going for it when I wrote to her about my

Powertool and \"attachment\" collection but I just got a PM from her telling me that she\'d rather go out with

Mr. Potato Head. Or words to that effect. Women are soooo cruel !!!

\" It\'s a rather bold thing to

say...\"

Sheeeit Bro...it was an outrageous thing to say! But I was rather outraged by the actions of

Germany prior to the Coalition invasion. When I say Germany or France etc. I\'m referring to the governments and

not the people of the countries. I don\'t believe governments represent their people any more. I believe that

governments only represent the interests of their corporations and that, \"We the People\" are just customers. But

I digress.

During the buildup toward the war I kept waiting for France and Germany to join up. Just like they

did in the Gulf War. I saw the incredible propaganda war they were waging as just a ploy to get a larger slice of

the pie. I was amazed that in the end they stayed out of the Coalition. I looked into why that was and came to

realize that France, Germany and Russia had already sliced up the pie. They had been slicing it up ever since the

end of the Gulf War. Any kind of Contract you can think of; oil, oil service, defense, you name it, had already had

been signed by Sadam himself and awarded to French, German and Russian companies. The French Co. Schlumberger is the

largest Oilfield Service Co. in the world. Much larger than our Halliburton. Schlumberger had the oil field

contracts ALL locked up. On and on goes the list. The light came on for me. Like DUH! It all made sense to me after

doing the research. It also explained the heavy lobbying efforts F&amp;G were making to the UN to try and get the

Iraqi sanctions lifted. F&amp;G&amp;R were sitting on a Gold mine and the USA was about to take a big **** on all

their plans and work over the past 10 years. Can\'t remember what city it is but France spent Billions

constructing a Port facility to offload all the new Iraqi oil that was soon to be on the way once the sanctions were

lifted. All that \"Give diplomacy a chance to work\" propaganda coming from F&amp;G&amp;R was just BS. $$$ was the

reason they didn\'t want the Coalition to go in. Pure and simple.


A couple of weeks before the first

bomb was dropped, Russia\'s Putin (because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"), ratted out Chirac to the

Coalition. Telling Bush of Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all wearing the UN Blue Helmet,

into Baghdad. That\'s how far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests and Germany was right there

with them. FG&amp;R wanted to keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless. You may recall how

everybody was surprised that the Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the USA\'s heavy armor was

still in route from Turkey where Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of the Iraq pie than the

Coal. was; not to mention a place in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see. Turkey was to have

been the entry point for some twenty Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has. The Coillition

moved in without them so Chirac wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all about $ and

power. So much so that France and Germany and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man who believes

himself to be the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire middle east

region and....you guessed it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to Sadam\'s Iraq

Charter, Sadam\'s plan was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract revenue and arms

and munition supplied by F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it would have been a

\"win, win\" deal. Lots of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little Islamic Extremist

problem to worry about cuz there wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.

It\'s all about $ and F&amp;G&amp;R

were not only willing to overlook Sadam\'s hand in financing Hamas, the PLO and some 20 other Terrorist groups

all involved in murdering Jews but were willing to overlook Sadam\'s big \"final solution\" plan for the Jews as

well. They were also willing to overlook the 5 to 10,000 Iraqi murders that took place each and every month in Iraq

ever since Sadam took over.

The French I can understand. The phrase \"The French are Whores\" has been

around for centuries and they do a disservice to good Whores all over the world. The American General of WWII fame,

Patton, once remarked that he\'d rather have a German Division in front of him than a French Division behind him.

F-ing Frogs!!! Rumor has it though that it was the French that invented cunnilingus so that\'s at least

something.
I can understand the Russians too. KGB and Mafia and just F-ing crazy. I understand crazy. Sorry

Franki, I just don\'t understand Germany. I mean you\'d think they would have been a little more PC (as Doc.

would say )on this one.

[franki]

Sorry

Ash, but there is too much conspiracy theory thinking in your post, for me to write a serious response to it..

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

A couple of weeks before the first bomb was

dropped, Russia\'s Putin (because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"), ratted out Chirac to the Coalition.

Telling Bush of Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all wearing the UN Blue Helmet, into

Baghdad. That\'s how far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests and Germany was right there with

them. FG&amp;R wanted to keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless. You may recall how everybody was

surprised that the Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the USA\'s heavy armor was still in route

from Turkey where Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of the Iraq pie than the Coal. was; not to

mention a place in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see. Turkey was to have been the entry point

for some twenty Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has. The Coillition moved in without them so

Chirac wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all about $ and power. So much so that France

and Germany and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man who believes himself to be the reincarnation

of Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire middle east region and....you guessed

it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to Sadam\'s Iraq Charter, Sadam\'s plan

was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract revenue and arms and munition supplied by

F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it would have been a \"win, win\" deal. Lots

of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little Islamic Extremist problem to worry about cuz there

wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is outrageous

indeed.. As if France and Germany had/have a secret plan to wipe out Israel??

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If

you believe this then you really have a problem.

[thingscouldwork]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sorry Ash, but there is too much conspiracy theory

thinking in your post, for me to write a serious response to it..

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Same here...

I would go so far as to say that the last paragraph is bordering on pure,

unfounded racism... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sorry Ash, but there is too much conspiracy theory thinking in your post,

for me to write a serious response to it..

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Same here...

I

would go so far as to say that the last paragraph is bordering on pure, unfounded racism...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

not racism,

but nationalism

[thingscouldwork]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
not racism, but nationalism

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Jep. For the lack of a better word, I stand corrected...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[EXIT63]

Yeah...What ASH said.

And another thing. Don\'t forget the outrageously crooked UN Oil For Food Program! I

don\'t know all the details. But I beleve there\'s going to be an investigation. That program laundered

billions of dollars for Saddam through many countries and companies. Meanwhile the poor Iraqi women and their

precious children were not the beneficiaries like they were supposed to be.

But so what!!! War Mongering George

Bush and the feeble minded Americans are much more of a threat to world peace than Saddam will ever be.


I\'m

sure American companies have profited from Iraq and her natural resources in the past. But when the time came for

Saddam to go, France, Germany, and to a slightly lesser extent Russia should not have stood in our way. All of

those contracts could\'ve been renegotiated. But now. If it were up to me. American companies would get first

crack at everything.

[Ash]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

A couple of weeks before the first bomb was dropped, Russia\'s Putin

(because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"), ratted out Chirac to the Coalition. Telling Bush of

Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all wearing the UN Blue Helmet, into Baghdad. That\'s how

far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests and Germany was right there with them. FG&amp;R wanted to

keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless. You may recall how everybody was surprised that the

Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the USA\'s heavy armor was still in route from Turkey where

Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of the Iraq pie than the Coal. was; not to mention a place

in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see. Turkey was to have been the entry point for some twenty

Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has. The Coillition moved in without them so Chirac

wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all about $ and power. So much so that France and Germany

and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man who believes himself to be the reincarnation of

Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire middle east region and....you guessed

it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to Sadam\'s Iraq Charter, Sadam\'s plan

was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract revenue and arms and munition supplied by

F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it would have been a \"win, win\" deal. Lots

of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little Islamic Extremist problem to worry about cuz there

wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

This is outrageous indeed..

As if France and Germany had/have a secret plan to wipe out Israel??

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If you

believe this then you really have a problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Well Franki, it

wouldn\'t be the first time Germany (with the help of France) had a plan to take care of Israel would it.

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

A couple

of weeks before the first bomb was dropped, Russia\'s Putin (because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"),

ratted out Chirac to the Coalition. Telling Bush of Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all

wearing the UN Blue Helmet, into Baghdad. That\'s how far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests

and Germany was right there with them. FG&amp;R wanted to keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless.

You may recall how everybody was surprised that the Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the

USA\'s heavy armor was still in route from Turkey where Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of

the Iraq pie than the Coal. was; not to mention a place in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see.

Turkey was to have been the entry point for some twenty Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has.

The Coillition moved in without them so Chirac wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all

about $ and power. So much so that France and Germany and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man

who believes himself to be the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire

middle east region and....you guessed it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to

Sadam\'s Iraq Charter, Sadam\'s plan was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract

revenue and arms and munition supplied by F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it

would have been a \"win, win\" deal. Lots of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little

Islamic Extremist problem to worry about cuz there wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.



<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

This is

outrageous indeed.. As if France and Germany had/have a secret plan to wipe out Israel??

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If

you believe this then you really have a problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Well

Franki, it wouldn\'t be the first time Germany (with the help of France) had a plan to take care of Israel would

it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

As far as I know, the federal republic of Germany (since

its foundation in 1949) has been a supporter and friend of Israel (founded in 1948) from the start.

[Ash]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sorry Ash, but there is too much conspiracy theory thinking in your post,

for me to write a serious response to it..

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Same here...

I

would go so far as to say that the last paragraph is bordering on pure, unfounded racism...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


No doubt

about it thingscouldwork, the Genocide of an entire race/religious group is racist. Glad you\'re able to see it

for what it is! The whole thing has a bit of an \"Old Europe\" Nationalism/racist flavor to it as well when you

look at the Nobel Prize Comity, made up entirely of Europeans, giving their coveted award to a man that kills Jews

for a living. I would say that goes a bit beyond \"unfounded\" racism. Wouldn\'t you TCW?

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sorry Ash,

but there is too much conspiracy theory thinking in your post, for me to write a serious response to it..

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Same here...

I would go so far as to say that the last

paragraph is bordering on pure, unfounded racism... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


No doubt about it thingscouldwork, the Genocide of an entire

race/religious group is racist. Glad you\'re able to see it for what it is! The whole thing has a bit of an \"Old

Europe\" Nationalism/racist flavor to it as well when you look at the Nobel Prize Comity, made up entirely of

Europeans, giving their coveted award to a man that kills Jews for a living. I would say that goes a bit beyond

\"unfounded\" racism. Wouldn\'t you TCW?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Cut the crap

Ash. The Nobel Peace Prize is a scandinavian thing (a norwegian/swedish committee), and the last thing you can

accuse them of is racism

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Ash]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

A couple of weeks before the first bomb was

dropped, Russia\'s Putin (because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"), ratted out Chirac to the Coalition.

Telling Bush of Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all wearing the UN Blue Helmet, into

Baghdad. That\'s how far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests and Germany was right there with

them. FG&amp;R wanted to keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless. You may recall how everybody was

surprised that the Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the USA\'s heavy armor was still in route

from Turkey where Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of the Iraq pie than the Coal. was; not to

mention a place in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see. Turkey was to have been the entry point

for some twenty Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has. The Coillition moved in without them so

Chirac wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all about $ and power. So much so that France and

Germany and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man who believes himself to be the reincarnation of

Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire middle east region and....you guessed

it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to Sadam\'s Iraq Charter, Sadam\'s plan

was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract revenue and arms and munition supplied by

F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it would have been a \"win, win\" deal. Lots

of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little Islamic Extremist problem to worry about cuz there

wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

This is outrageous indeed.. As if France and Germany

had/have a secret plan to wipe out Israel?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If you believe this then you really have a problem.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Well Franki, it wouldn\'t be the first time Germany (with the help of

France) had a plan to take care of Israel would it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

As far as I

know, the federal republic of Germany (since its foundation in 1949) has been a supporter and friend of Israel

(founded in 1948) from the start.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


You wouldn\'t get that

impression looking at their voting record at the UN Franki. Were they a friend to Israel last week when the UN

voted to condemn Israel for the killing of the Jew murdering Yassin? Did they support Israel last week Franki?

[Elana]

Excellent

posts, Ash!!!

You make me proud! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

/>
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

A couple of weeks before the first bomb was dropped, Russia\'s Putin

(because he and Bush are such \"good\" friends\"), ratted out Chirac to the Coalition. Telling Bush of

Frances\' plan to drop several thousand French troops, all wearing the UN Blue Helmet, into Baghdad. That\'s how

far France was willing to go to protect it\'s interests and Germany was right there with them. FG&amp;R wanted to

keep Sadam in power lest their contracts become worthless. You may recall how everybody was surprised that the

Coalition moved in when they did especially when all the USA\'s heavy armor was still in route from Turkey where

Chirac was successful in offering Turkey a bigger piece of the Iraq pie than the Coal. was; not to mention a place

in the \"New Europe\" that Turkey will probably never see. Turkey was to have been the entry point for some twenty

Divisions of heavily armored infantry. The best the USA has. The Coillition moved in without them so Chirac

wouldn\'t have the time to get his troops in.

It\'s all about $ and power. So much so that France and Germany

and Russia were willing to overlook making deals with a man who believes himself to be the reincarnation of

Nebuchadnezzar who\'s claim to fame was conquering the entire middle east region and....you guessed

it...destroying what would now be called the State of Israel. According to Sadam\'s Iraq Charter, Sadam\'s plan

was the same as Neb\'s and would have been financed by oil and contract revenue and arms and munition supplied by

F&amp;G&amp;R. The contracts were already signed. For the New Europe it would have been a \"win, win\" deal. Lots

of oil flowing in, lots of arms flowing out. No more pesky little Islamic Extremist problem to worry about cuz there

wouldn\'t be an Israel anymore.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

This is outrageous indeed.. As if France and Germany

had/have a secret plan to wipe out Israel?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If you believe this then you really have a problem.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


Well Franki, it wouldn\'t be the first time Germany (with the help of

France) had a plan to take care of Israel would it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

As far as I

know, the federal republic of Germany (since its foundation in 1949) has been a supporter and friend of Israel

(founded in 1948) from the start.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


You wouldn\'t get that

impression looking at their voting record at the UN Franki. Were they a friend to Israel last week when the UN

voted to condemn Israel for the killing of the Jew murdering Yassin? Did they support Israel last week Franki?



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

They didn\'t vote against Israel last week, Ash. Check your

records/information.

If you are well informed, you would know Germany NEVER votes against Israel at the UN. When

they don\'t have the same opinion as Israel they refrain from voting, instead of voting against them.

[Ash]

I did check

my information Franki and I know the voting record of Germany. Your statement was that Germany was a \"Friend\"

and \"Supporter\" of Israel. I don\'t see any \"support\" in their voting record at all and I didn\'t see

any friendship toward Israel in Germany\'s support for Sadam. You\'re defending the indefensible Franki !

Europe; Eastern, Western, Norwegian/Swedish, Old or New, what have you, has NEVER been a friend to the Jews! In

recent history they sure as hell have been a friend to those that kill Jews though. So lets do cut the crap Franki.

How bout you telling me why that is.