Amendment Banning Gay Marriage?!?!?!

[belgareth]

One of the biggest problems, as I see it, is that people will always vote based on their belief. So, no

matter how you strive to keep the two seperated, there will always be this debate.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think a big problem is that the people in the

government are so reliously inclined, they have always used (or even abused) it to improve their `image´ so people

think Ah, he goes to church etc and talks of god, so he must be a good person and thus worthy of my

support.
Religion has no place in government affairs and how a country ought to be run IMO but the united states

really aren´t the only ones on this train.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The U.S., however, was

founded by a bunch of guys who were fairly anti traditional religion. Folks try to hammer the bible into the

constitution by insisting that the U.S. was founded to be a \"Christian nation\" don\'t know their history.

Dubya\'s admin is pretty heavy in these types.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe we should lock this thread. A lot of feeling get hurt when

someone\'s religion is bashed.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> But this thread is not about

`bashing´ ,but it ought to be possible to voice an opinion and feelings about religion somewhat. Especially seing as

religion(s) criticise and make their opinions known too. So it should be okay, especially when there´s actual facts

in play......... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

So, what about my question?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Nothing wrong

with religion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion about gay marriage. It\'s just that there\'s something scary

about letting politicians mess with the constitution.

So, please... don\'t anybody be hurt or upset.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I don\'t think it needs to be locked (yet).

Discussion has been pretty civil up to here, although it is a difficult/emotional topic.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yeah, well-- the topic has all the touchy elements-- sex, politics, and

religion.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I don\'t support gay marriage. I believe marriage

is a religious ceremony, and I believe my religion does not condone homosexuality. Therefore I believe it would be

against the \'law\' of my religion to marry homosexuals.
However, I also do not support a constitutional

amendment against gay marriage. Why? Because again, I believe marriage is a religious ceremony, and I do not want

the government regulating what I can do where or when in my religion.

This does not mean I hate gay people. The

doesn\'t even mean I won\'t talk to them or be friends with gay people.

These are my beliefs and my opinions

on this, and I refuse to argue about them. But opinions were asked for, and I\'m giving mine. Flame away.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Nothing wrong with your opinion, gal.

[Rakesh]

Well I believe the government is kinda stepping beyond it\'s area of power here. The entire point of democracy

and the western politics is allowing everybody to live his/her individual life in the way that suits him/her best.

When the government tries to enforce a certain way of thinking and represses everything outside it, it is called

fascism. I can understand laws banning sex in public in Vatican, but when somebody tries to forbid certain sexual

practices, I can go berserk. As long as both (or rather, all involved

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) people enjoy what they are doing, and are doing it voluntarily,

they can stick stuffed walrusses in each other\'s arse and nobody should frickin care, let alone have any open

objections. It is our choice whether we want to take the \"live and let live\" approach, or if we decide to go

prudish and feed other people our own (often effed up) opinions.
And bugger \"tradition\". Just because a piece

of crap has been around for 200 years doesn\'t make it any less crappy.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Well I believe the government is kinda stepping

beyond it\'s area of power here. The entire point of democracy and the western politics is allowing everybody to

live his/her individual life in the way that suits him/her best. When the government tries to enforce a certain way

of thinking and represses everything outside it, it is called fascism. I can understand laws banning sex in public

in Vatican, but when somebody tries to forbid certain sexual practices, I can go berserk. As long as both (or

rather, all involved [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) people enjoy what they are doing, and are

doing it voluntarily, they can stick stuffed walrusses in each other\'s arse and nobody should frickin care, let

alone have any open objections. It is our choice whether we want to take the \"live and let live\" approach, or if

we decide to go prudish and feed other people our own (often effed up) opinions.
And bugger \"tradition\". Just

because a piece of crap has been around for 200 years doesn\'t make it any less crappy.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, no. The states DO have a constitutional right to regulate marriage.

If a particular state\'s voters prefer to outlaw gay marriage, so be it. If another area\'s voters decide to

endorse gay marriage-- fine.

Laws are already on the books, re: the disposition of marriages that are entered

into in a state where they are legal, when the couple moved to a state where they are illegal (such as, marriages

between cousins, age of consent differences).

[EXIT63]

It\'s all about politics.

A constitutional amendmendment needs a two thirds vote in the house and senate.

It then must be ratified by 38 states.

Bush knows it ain\'t gonna happen. He\'s just shoring up his base

for the November election. He\'s looking at polls that say 60% of Americans are against gay marriage and playing

to those voters.

The administration is using this issue to get the whole National Guard thing off the front

pages.

And guess what? It worked.

[OCP]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe we should lock this thread. A lot of feelings

get hurt when someone\'s religion is bashed. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Religion is a very personal and emotional issue. I think Elana is correct

that this post thread should end.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
It\'s all about politics.

A constitutional

amendmendment needs a two thirds vote in the house and senate. It then must be ratified by 38 states.

Bush

knows it ain\'t gonna happen. He\'s just shoring up his base for the November election. He\'s looking at

polls that say 60% of Americans are against gay marriage and playing to those voters.

The administration is using

this issue to get the whole National Guard thing off the front pages.

And guess what? It worked.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Excellent point, Exit. We\'re also speculating abot \"capturing

Osama\" JUST in time for the elections.

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe we should lock this thread. A lot of feelings

get hurt when someone\'s religion is bashed.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Religion

is a very personal and emotional issue. I think Elana is correct that this post thread should end.



<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I don´t because it´s an interesting discussion and for once it´s not about

`women want this...´ stuff either. It´s interesting and I don´t have the feeling that it´s heated up or nasty or

anything.

I kinda doubt that there will be a big vote on this subject or this this a real possibility?

[EXIT63]

What she said. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What she said.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Which she?

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What she said. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Which she?



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Uhhh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Both. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe we should lock this thread. A lot of feelings get hurt when

someone\'s religion is bashed.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Religion is a very

personal and emotional issue. I think Elana is correct that this post thread should end.



<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> I don´t because it´s an interesting discussion and for once it´s not about

`women wann this...´ stuff either. It´s interesting and I don´t have the feeling that it´s heated up or nasty or

anything.

I kinda doubt that there will be a big vote on this subject or this this a real possibility?

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I think Exit is right-- I think this is just pre-election grandstanding.



I DO think Der Groppenfueher is seriously hoping for a constitutional amendment that would allow a naturalized

citizen to run for prexie. That won\'t happen, either.

It\'s not about either issue, it\'s about the

complexity and difficulty of messing with the constitution.

For the record-- I believe that marriage is a civil

contract (rather than a religious or sacramental). I would also vote for gay marrige. If I was outvoted-- it\'s

the will of the people.

I do not, however, believe that I am necessarily right (if there IS such a thing as

\"right\'), or that people who think differently are wrong.

I guess that\'s why I only have one vote.

&lt;g&gt;

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


I DO think Der Groppenfueher is seriously

hoping for a constitutional amendment that would allow a naturalized citizen to run for prexie. That won\'t

happen, either.




<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Is Mr.Schwarzenegger really that bad that

you have the use Nazi-terms all the time? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Rakesh]

And whats wrong about nazi terms, du schweinhund? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And whats wrong about nazi terms, du schweinhund?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, I think it

goes too far too compare him to an SS-Gruppenführer like Kari does all the time..

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
schweinhund?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

is that the only

german you know? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[CJ01]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Der Groppenfueher

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\"> Gruppenführer</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
schweinhund?




<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Schweinehund
When insulting and calling names like this please at

least make sure you get the words right [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


I DO think Der Groppenfueher is seriously hoping for a constitutional

amendment that would allow a naturalized citizen to run for prexie. That won\'t happen, either.




<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Is Mr.Schwarzenegger really that bad that you have the use Nazi-terms all

the time? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Yes, I think so.

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Der Groppenfueher

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Gruppenführer


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

CJ, Groppenfuehrer is a combination of

Gruppenführer and groping, because of Arnold\'s history.. This is supposed to be funny..

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Der Groppenfueher

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Gruppenführer</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
schweinhund?


<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Schweinehund
When insulting and calling names like this please at least make

sure you get the words right [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]



<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

\"Groppenfuehrer\" is a reference to his tendency to \"grope\" women

whom he considers to be of lower status. It\'s a Denglish neologism that the media made up.

[CJ01]

I´d

change that to `gropingführer´ it´s better linguistically [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Der

Groppenfueher

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Gruppenführer


<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

CJ, Groppenfuehrer is a combination of Gruppenführer and groping, because of Arnold\'s

history.. This is supposed to be funny.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It\'s come

into pretty much common usage, in CA. I think the L.A. Times started it, and the rest of the media picked it up.

[Rakesh]

Schweinehund is the gramatically correct spelling, and exactly the form nobody would ever really use
So halt\'s

Maul! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Schweinehund is the gramatically correct spelling,

and exactly the form nobody would ever really use
So halt\'s Maul!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ah-nold\'s dad

was a card-carrying nazi. It shows in Ah-nold, in places.

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ah-nold\'s dad was a card-carrying nazi. It shows

in Ah-nold, in places.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sure does.


Holmes

[bjf]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Schweinehund

is the gramatically correct spelling, and exactly the form nobody would ever really use
So halt\'s Maul!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Ah-nold\'s dad

was a card-carrying nazi. It shows in Ah-nold, in places.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sure

does.


Holmes

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

What does it say about the voters when someone

who is pregidous and who sexually assaults women is elected?

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What does it say about the voters when someone who

is pregidous and who sexually assaults women is elected?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

It says

that they\'re star-struck airheads. Among other things.


Holmes