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  1. #1
    Phero Dude
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    Default Muscle Turning into Fat?

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Okay, I want all

    the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts,

    someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle

    turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read

    something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly

    states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute

    impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using

    their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy

    continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

    The key point here

    is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and

    believe.

    So, what\'s the truth here?

  2. #2
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    I think

    what\'s happening is that as a man ages, his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by

    estrogen production so he goes into \"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s

    why they pump our food animals full of them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

    Plus, once some

    body fat goes on, the fat starts making estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the

    visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut that causes potbellies.

    All this is just part of the cycle of

    life.

    Then you die.

  3. #3
    Phero Dude
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages,

    his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into

    \"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of

    them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

    Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making

    estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut

    that causes potbellies.

    All this is just part of the cycle of life.

    Then you die.

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages,

    his hormonal balances change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into

    \"estrogen dominance.\" Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of

    them when the ranchers want to fatten them for market.

    Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making

    estrogens so the problem is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut

    that causes potbellies.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">That sounds about like what I\'ve read. The

    term for this male hormonal change that I\'ve run across is \"andropause\".



  5. #5
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I think what\'s happening is that as a man ages, his hormonal balances

    change. The androgen hormones get overwhelmed by estrogen production so he goes into \"estrogen dominance.\"

    Estrogens are great for putting on fat - that\'s why they pump our food animals full of them when the ranchers

    want to fatten them for market.

    Plus, once some body fat goes on, the fat starts making estrogens so the problem

    is compounded. The hardest fat to take off is the visceral fat, the stuff inside the gut that causes

    potbellies.

    All this is just part of the cycle of life.

    Then you die.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">No doubt!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

  6. #6
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    There\'s a post to lighten up a guy\'s day.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I think had one too many Shirley Temples for dinner. Too many

    and I turn morbid.

  7. #7
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Okay, I want all the know-it-alls to clear this one

    up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts, someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned

    how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle turn to fat. I\'ve heard this

    line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read something credible, such as an article

    last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly states that it is utter garbage that

    only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute impossibility for muscle to \"turn

    into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using their muscles, which then get eaten

    up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy continues to do

    nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

    The key point here is that the fat

    is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and believe.

    So, what\'s

    the truth here?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    That\'s ok, you can mention my name. It wont

    hurt my feelings. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The remark about muscle turning into fat being

    amusing was tongue in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

    Since I didn\'t read the article I am

    curious, what does this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then? We\'ve all seen it, several

    of my close friends are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!) It\'s easy to say something

    doesn\'t exist but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question I\'d like to ask is this

    person\'s credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not prove much other than he

    strongly supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You believe that, right?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

    My knowledge of physiology is pretty limited but

    Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I have to work

    to keep from growing a pot belly.

  8. #8
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Okay, I want all the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it.

    On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts, someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when

    these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life,

    and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle

    magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could

    believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes

    from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the

    body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down

    fat.....and more fat......

    The key point here is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from

    muscles as so many people like to say and believe.

    So, what\'s the truth here?

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    That\'s ok, you can mention my name. It wont hurt my feelings.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The remark about muscle turning into fat being amusing was tongue

    in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

    Since I didn\'t read the article I am curious, what does

    this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then? We\'ve all seen it, several of my close friends

    are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!) It\'s easy to say something doesn\'t exist

    but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question I\'d like to ask is this person\'s

    credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not prove much other than he strongly

    supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You believe that, right?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

    My knowledge of physiology is pretty limited but

    Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I have to work

    to keep from growing a pot belly.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I\'m a health professional.

    I don\'t think muscle turns into fat-- muscle tissue is muscle tissue, and fat is fat. With disuse, muscle

    atrophies, and fat accumulates. So, it LOOKS like it\'s turning into fat.

  9. #9
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    Whitehall has identified one of the factors. Of course, there are also factors other than aging per se that favor

    increased estrogen production in men (such as living with women, changes in work and social environments).

    Incidentally, I think a product called Indolplex (found in a few different supplements) is great for reducing such

    excess estrogen, and hence estrogen related changes in body composition. It isolates a chemical from broccoli that

    supports estrogen metabolism.

    But there are probably at least a few other factors beyond increased estrogen

    production.

    For instance, I suspect the \"turn to fat\" phenomenon has also to do with a newly slower

    metabolism (muscle burns calories) versus historically high calorie intake, as well as a sort of related \'body

    weight memory\'. In other words, the body\'s processes had been running at a clip necessary to support a large

    (muscular) person, someone who had taken in a lot of calories and burned off a lot, and some processes might

    continue to do so, in part, after the muscle atrophy begins.

    Another factor might be just a less healthy

    lifestyle that tends to be associated with giving up body care routines like weight training. One function of fat is

    to carry away fat-soluble toxins in excess of what the liver and skin can process. More toxic living should

    translate into higher fat and water retention (water for water soluble toxins).

    Further, one function of

    muscle was to stabilize and protect the body\'s internal organs. With that loss of protection might well come the

    need for the substitute protection that fat offers.

    Lastly, the poorer circulation of old age might raise the

    body\'s need for insulation, and hence, fat. The same goes with increases in padding to support more sitting and

    laying down. (I\'m a big believer in the wisdom of the body.)

  10. #10
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Okay, I want

    all the know-it-alls to clear this one up...or just debate it. On one of the recent threads I started about wieghts,

    someone(I won\'t say who) mentioned how funny it is when these big muscle-bound guys one day have all their muscle

    turn to fat. I\'ve heard this line(myth?) my whole life, and am still hearing it. However, whenever I read

    something credible, such as an article last week by some muscle magazine editor, he brings up this issue and firmly

    states that it is utter garbage that only morons should/could believe. What I have read is that it is an absolute

    impossibility for muscle to \"turn into\" fat. If anyone goes from musclular to fat, it is because they stop using

    their muscles, which then get eaten up for energy, since the body doesn\'t need them anymore, then the guy

    continues to do nothing...overeat....etc.....and then he lays down fat.....and more fat......

    The key point here

    is that the fat is laid down as fat, NOT \"converted\" from muscles as so many people like to say and

    believe.

    So, what\'s the truth here?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    That\'s ok, you can

    mention my name. It wont hurt my feelings. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] The remark about

    muscle turning into fat being amusing was tongue in cheek, sorry if I was less than clear about that.

    Since I

    didn\'t read the article I am curious, what does this expert attribute this clearly observable phenomena to, then?

    We\'ve all seen it, several of my close friends are trying to deal with it right now. (Getting older truly sucks!)

    It\'s easy to say something doesn\'t exist but to demonstrate it is another subject altogether. Another question

    I\'d like to ask is this person\'s credentials. Being an editor for a muscle building magazine really does not

    prove much other than he strongly supports muscle building. Not that I am implying he has a bias (Nor do I-You

    believe that, right? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

    My knowledge of physiology is pretty

    limited but Whitehall\'s explanation sounds very plausible. I know that for myself, the older I get, the harder I

    have to work to keep from growing a pot belly.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I\'m a health

    professional. I don\'t think muscle turns into fat-- muscle tissue is muscle tissue, and fat is fat. With disuse,

    muscle atrophies, and fat accumulates. So, it LOOKS like it\'s turning into fat.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    I can accept that.

  11. #11
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?


  12. #12
    Phero Dude
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

    />
    http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Hmmm....don\'t want to offend anyone, but in my opinion,

    everyone except KARI seems to have kind of missed the point. Forgive me if this is not so. All this talk of

    andropause, increase estrogen levels, and all the factors that lead to guys getting \"fat\" as they get older, are

    no mystery to me. The one key point that I wanted to clear up is whether muscles tissue turns to fat tissue. This is

    what I have been hearing my whole life, but what I have read more than once, is what KARI said, \"muscle tissue is

    muscle and fat tissue is fat\". End of story. I have read that it is an impossibility for one to \"convert\" into

    the other. So.....maybe indirectly, many of you would agree.....since a lot of you are talking about why fat would

    be laid done once we start to advance in years?

    It seems to me, the biggest problem for people is whether they

    are physically active or not. Meaning, if you are couch potato, you might look likt a blob. If you work out, or do

    phyiscal work, maybe you are not a \"blob\". If the active guy stops using his body, he likely becomes a

    \"blob\". So, it seems to me that many people\'s logic is that, \"he became a blob because he was a body

    builder. Personally, I don\'t think that is sound logic. Anyone who is physically active and in good shape is at

    risk of becoming a blob if they change there lifestyle/diet/degree of physical activity.

    I guess ultimately what

    I want to know is, \"should a guy be afraid of getting too much into muscle training/building, because that seems

    to be the direction I am going. I\'m not talking about serious body building though, if you know what I mean. If

    building too much muscle is ultimately bad, then I am a bit worried because I seem to have the type of body where I

    can quickly put on muscle; totally opposite from these guys who complain that no matter what they do they continue

    to look like pencil-necked lightweight geeks. A month of not very intense working out and I am \"growing out of\"

    some of my shirts; either can\'t do up the top bottom, or the short-sleeve cuffs are uncomfortably tight at the

    biceps; for example.

  13. #13
    WorldEater Icarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    Muscle

    tissue cannot turn into fat.

    An increased calorie intake, such as that required by a muscular man to

    stay muscular will result in major body fat gains when/if the individual stops training as hard.

    This is

    why bodybuilders and such \'train-down\'(or should) when they come to the end of thier \'span\'. (and as

    Kari said, muscles atrophy. (wither from disuse))

    Muscle atrophy + Huge fat gain = the appearance that muscle is

    turning to fat.

    I think the myth revolves around the nutritional aspect (the most important to a bodybuilder),

    you would be surpised just how much one has to eat when one hits the upper limits of musculature. These

    sorts of habits can be hard to break (thus, fat gains agogo)

    Sorry if this isn\'t what you wanted

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Steve

  14. #14
    WorldEater Icarus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    Also, you

    gotta have fat in your diet otherwise your body will not only hold onto the fat that it has, but will put convert

    more of your calorie intake into fat-tissue, as it gets scared that it\'s never going to recieve fat

    again.

    When you think about it (from a Human-Animal point of view) losing body-fat down to the 3-8% range is a

    crazy and anti-survivalist thing to do.

    Don\'t know where that fits it. Just wanted to say it.

    Steve

  15. #15
    Phero Dude
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Muscle tissue cannot turn into fat.

    An

    increased calorie intake, such as that required by a muscular man to stay muscular will result in major body

    fat gains when/if the individual stops training as hard.

    This is why bodybuilders and such \'train-down\'(or

    should) when they come to the end of thier \'span\'. (and as Kari said, muscles atrophy. (wither from

    disuse))

    Muscle atrophy + Huge fat gain = the appearance that muscle is turning to fat.

    I think the myth

    revolves around the nutritional aspect (the most important to a bodybuilder), you would be surpised just how

    much one has to eat when one hits the upper limits of musculature. These sorts of habits can be hard to break

    (thus, fat gains agogo)

    Sorry if this isn\'t what you wanted

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Steve

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Thanks

    Steve. Maybe I am far from a serious bodybuilder, since I do not have or require a huge calorie intake.I think I

    take in fewer calories than I used to before starting to work out. However, I am gaining muscle, losing fat, and

    losing weight. One thing I have noticed though, is that I can eat really \"deadly\" food that I used to have to

    consciously avoid (because it would put pounds on me instantly), yet I can still lose weight, and lose fat. I can

    eat really heavy spagetti carbonara complete with fresh fried bacon or fried chicken, complete with skin and grease,

    simmered in wine and cream, and actually lose weight! Obviously, there is something different going on with my body.


  16. #16
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr

    />
    http://www.andropause.com/about_andropause/



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Hmmm....don\'t want to offend anyone, but in my opinion,

    everyone except KARI seems to have kind of missed the point. Forgive me if this is not so. All this talk of

    andropause, increase estrogen levels, and all the factors that lead to guys getting \"fat\" as they get older, are

    no mystery to me. The one key point that I wanted to clear up is whether muscles tissue turns to fat tissue. This is

    what I have been hearing my whole life, but what I have read more than once, is what KARI said, \"muscle tissue is

    muscle and fat tissue is fat\". End of story. I have read that it is an impossibility for one to \"convert\" into

    the other. So.....maybe indirectly, many of you would agree.....since a lot of you are talking about why fat would

    be laid done once we start to advance in years?

    It seems to me, the biggest problem for people is whether they

    are physically active or not. Meaning, if you are couch potato, you might look likt a blob. If you work out, or do

    phyiscal work, maybe you are not a \"blob\". If the active guy stops using his body, he likely becomes a

    \"blob\". So, it seems to me that many people\'s logic is that, \"he became a blob because he was a body

    builder. Personally, I don\'t think that is sound logic. Anyone who is physically active and in good shape is at

    risk of becoming a blob if they change there lifestyle/diet/degree of physical activity.

    I guess ultimately what

    I want to know is, \"should a guy be afraid of getting too much into muscle training/building, because that seems

    to be the direction I am going. I\'m not talking about serious body building though, if you know what I mean. If

    building too much muscle is ultimately bad, then I am a bit worried because I seem to have the type of body where I

    can quickly put on muscle; totally opposite from these guys who complain that no matter what they do they continue

    to look like pencil-necked lightweight geeks. A month of not very intense working out and I am \"growing out of\"

    some of my shirts; either can\'t do up the top bottom, or the short-sleeve cuffs are uncomfortably tight at the

    biceps; for example.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I don\'t think bodybuilders are any more

    likely to turn into blobs than anyone else. Stop working out, and the muscles slowly lose mass. Also, metabolism

    slows, so it\'s easier to accumulate fat.

  17. #17
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Also, you gotta have fat in your diet otherwise

    your body will not only hold onto the fat that it has, but will put convert more of your calorie intake into

    fat-tissue, as it gets scared that it\'s never going to recieve fat again.

    When you think about it (from a

    Human-Animal point of view) losing body-fat down to the 3-8% range is a crazy and anti-survivalist thing to

    do.

    Don\'t know where that fits it. Just wanted to say it.

    Steve

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Uh-huh, and women need a bare minimum of 11% fat JUST to produce hormones.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    They say

    bodybuilders who do competition and things like that, look like fat-slobs in the \"off-season\".. If they

    wouldn\'t be so fat, they wouldn\'t be able to get in form quick for bodybuilder competitions either.

  19. #19
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I can eat really heavy spagetti carbonara complete

    with fresh fried bacon or fried chicken, complete with skin and grease, simmered in wine and cream

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Sounds like my diet [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  20. #20
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    It\'s

    fine, I think. But they advise football players to transition out of their playing days by increasing aerobic

    activity and decreasing weight training and eating. Those who do this don\'t blob out, and vice versa.

    Ultimately your bones determine how much muscle you need.

  21. #21
    Phero Pharaoh
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    It\'s fine, I think. But they advise football

    players to transition out of their playing days by increasing aerobic activity and decreasing weight training and

    eating. Those who do this don\'t blob out, and vice versa. Ultimately your bones determine how much muscle

    you need.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    A bodybuilder, on TV, was saying the biggest mistake

    made is \"not cutting your die in half, when you quit working out.\"

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    My

    take on this subject corelates with kari. When your training with the intesity of a bodybuilder, you are burning a

    huge amount of calories. The more muscle mass you have also burns more calories. When the time comes to end those

    extreme workouts you slowly lose muscle mass. Use it or lose it. Alot of bodybuilders are in the mind set that if

    they keep up their supplimentation etc. they can maintain their shape. However, They keep eating and eating and

    eating like they did before because now they don\'t have to worry about being ripped. The muscles shrink and are

    replaced by the fat created by all the excess calories they are taking in. So to prevent this, cut what you stuff in

    your pie hole down and stay active.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Muscle Turning into Fat?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    My take on this subject corelates with kari. When

    your training with the intesity of a bodybuilder, you are burning a huge amount of calories. The more muscle mass

    you have also burns more calories. When the time comes to end those extreme workouts you slowly lose muscle mass.

    Use it or lose it. Alot of bodybuilders are in the mind set that if they keep up their supplimentation etc. they can

    maintain their shape. However, They keep eating and eating and eating like they did before because now they don\'t

    have to worry about being ripped. The muscles shrink and are replaced by the fat created by all the excess calories

    they are taking in. So to prevent this, cut what you stuff in your pie hole down and stay active.

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Agreed.

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