No results with SOE or PI/m

[jimhoff]

Ok. I now

have been using PI/m for about a month and SOE for about 2 weeks. I am afraid to use PI/m most of the time because

there is such a fine line of it working really well, or not at all. I don\'t want to waste my SOE by mixing it

with PI/m.
Now, I have gone to the gym several times, wearing only SOE with no results. Typically I will put 2\"

swipes on each hand, and 2 3\" swipes on the neck. Then I will go work out. No hits.
I have gone out to the mall

a few times, tried to get close to women and talk to them. I wear the same amount of SOE as above and nothing

happens.
I have gone to clubs/bars a few times as well, usually wearing 3 dabs of PI/m and SOE 2 3\" swipes on the

neck, 4\" swipes on the wrists/arms. No results.
I am friendly and enjoy talking to women. I can\'t seem to

see any DIHL, turning of heads, excessive talking, smiling, touching, etc...
I am a believer in mones and am very

interested in finding a concoction that works for me. I am thinking of investing in AE/m, TE or even NPA. I

don\'t want to waste my money. I am thinking about putting on like 10 drops of PI/m and seeing what happens. Of

course I can\'t smell the stuff so I won\'t know if when people are avoiding me is b/c of the bad smell or the

mones themselves.
Am I wearing too much SOE? If I just put a little on (2 2\" swipes on neck), will that be

enough to last all day? Can I smear it around on the skin or should I let it absorb in its applied strip?
I really

want this stuff to work. HELP!!!!

Josh

[cuddlebear]

10

drops of PI/m? I wouldn\'t recommend that. A definite OD, not to mention a waste of product. Besides,

I\'ve already done it so don\'t repeat my mistake [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Why

not mix PI/m with SOE? That\'s where KR#1 came from.

There almost HAS to be a good mix with those 2

products. Between the two, you have all 3 of the most commonly used mones.

Apologies to the forum for my

being almost completely nonexistent, but my laptop is on the fritz for the second time this month and I can\'t

make it on that often.

Cuddles

p.s. Just noticed, you\'re from Baltimore, as am I.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jimhoff]

I

don\'t know. Why haven\'t I seen anything? I don\'t want to become obvious and go out of my way searching

for hits.

I am so frustrated.

[Biohazard]

I

think your expectations are too high... possibly because you\'ve read too many hit stories on here that are likely

big exaggerations. Pheros won\'t make you into an instant stud. The harsh reality is that if a guy who\'s more

attractive than you walks into the gym, I don\'t care if you\'ve got on the most potent mix of pheros known to

man, you essentially become irrelevent in the ladies\' eyes. If an average Jane is working the scene at a bar and

has on her PPA or copulins or whatever... if a blonde bombshell walks in, the same will happen (the effect is more

dramatic with men since they\'re more dependent on visual stimulation than women).

You have to get

yourself into the mindset that pheros aren\'t hypnotic agents. My perspective is that, given the choice between

two comparably looking people, this is where pheros can make a difference. It\'s like spraying pheros onto one of

two comparably tasty-looking soup containers. But let\'s say one is chicken soup with huge, juicy chunks of meat

and the other choice is a greenish, slimy looking split pea and ham... spraying pheros onto the split pea and ham

will not make any difference. People will still overwhelmingly go for the chicken soup. Most people don\'t want

to hear this because it saddens them when they come to the realization that, in our world, yes looks are very

important.

Pheros may make a difference between whether a date ends the night with a kiss or invites you up

to their place for the night. Point is, you still have to get yourself in the door using conventional interpersonal

tactics. Becoming phychologically reliant or disappointed in something that\'s not intrinsic to yourself is what

the phero manufacterers want. It\'s like the local drug dealer getting you hooked, knowing you\'re gonna be

coming back over and over.

[jimhoff]

but I

prefer split pea soup over chicken noodle... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Biohazard]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
but I prefer split pea soup over chicken noodle...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I know

you\'re joking. But here\'s a better example.

You know the story where pheros were sprayed onto one

chair in a dental office waiting room, and all the ladies consistently went for that chair? I don\'t know the

details, but my bet is that the chairs looked comparable. Let\'s say one looked less comfy, or had a really

conspicuous stain (maybe something brown) or looked really dingy. Spray pheros on the less visually-appealing

chair... will the ladies still go for it when a softer, cleaner looking chair is available? Doubt it.



Best analogy I can think of to emphasize the importance of visual cues in human sexual behavior and mate

selection. Higher brain &gt; primitive brain.

Very interested in any dissenting perspectives.

[SwingerMD]

Jimhoff,

For PI/m start out with 1-2 drops instead of dabs. Upturn the bottle and let one drop fall out (the

included plastic drop mech. tends to put out more than what you would get from using a dropper, but that\'s what

I\'ve been using) put one drop behind each ear. No reaction? The next day go up another drop and so on. . . . .

First let\'s see if you get a rxn either good or bad then work from there to get an amount that works for

you.

As for SOE the total amount you are using sounds about right. Just remember that sexual hits are very rare

when using SOE. I use it as a relaxer and a mood setter. It\'s very good at making people feel at ease talking

to you. In fact with all the interesting things that people say when I wear this, I feel like a psychiatrist

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] . Anyhow with this in mind it is still your job to steer the

conversation to flirting etc . . . . Yes, you still have to work at it but, I have found out how open my targets are

to my advances. Hell, some of the things I so corny but they still eat it up.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

--------------------

<font color=\"blue\"> -SwingerMD

</font>

[jimhoff]

thanks

swinger. that was a really good answer. I will try that. Should I do this every day or alternate days? Should I

mix it with SOE or just start with PI?

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think your expectations are too high... possibly

because you\'ve read too many hit stories on here that are likely big exaggerations.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Like someone claiming that they get mad hits from wearing 10 drops of

PI/m.......aaaaaannnnnnnnndddddddd no one commenting that you stink to high heaven?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Take another look at JVK\'s work maybe. Nol can cause a

hormonal response that could eventually lead to a sexual response, but it takes quite a bit of time

and it\'s not necessarily a conscious process. There seems to be some merit to the argument of

\"comparable attractivess\".

[Biohazard]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think your expectations are too high... possibly because you\'ve read too

many hit stories on here that are likely big exaggerations.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Like someone claiming that they get mad hits from wearing 10 drops of

PI/m.......aaaaaannnnnnnnndddddddd no one commenting that you stink to high heaven?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Take another look at JVK\'s work maybe. Nol can cause a

hormonal response that could eventually lead to a sexual response, but it takes quite a bit of time

and it\'s not necessarily a conscious process. There seems to be some merit to the argument of

\"comparable attractivess\".

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

My hits were always the

\"subtle\" type (using anywhere between 2-10 drops, lately I\'ve been on the conservative end), which is what

I\'ve been claiming the whole time on this board. You can run a search on my handful of posts, and you\'ll see

they are nowhere near the other stories about \"girls wandering aimlessly, etc.\" I\'ve quite often interjected

myself about the possibility that the positive interactions with the ladies is entirely intrinsic to myself and

completely unrelated to synthetic chemicals on my skin.

If positive effects are subtle, then it follows any

negative effects would be as well, meaning no one has ever come out and said \"Damn, you stink!\" At the same

time, no one has ever come out and said, \"let\'s go to the bathroom and have sex right now!\" This is

consistent with the stance that pheros aren\'t magic potions. Someone once said that an OD response doesn\'t

mean a girl running away or outright saying that I stink, but rather it just means she\'ll not be able to detect

that I\'m the source of the pheros and therefore her behavior towards me specifically are not affected in any way.

Again, isn\'t this consistent with the concept that pheros don\'t elicit dramatic [negative] responses?



Another poster had a great analogy recently, about the arbitrary 85% threshold to get a \"hit.\" Pheros

give you +10-15%, which means you still need to account for the other 65-70% on your own. In order of importance:

(1) Physical attractiveness, (2) Money/power, (3) Charm. 2 and 3 can change places, but 1 is solidly in that

position. Again, still consistent with the stance that pheros aren\'t magic potions.

If you hold the

position that pheros have DRAMATIC impacts on human behavior, then I can see why you\'d be afraid of the OD, or

say that high amounts of pheros will automatically lead to only one type of response... as if the science of human

behavior was all robotic and textbook like.

I may check out more of JVK\'s work. But what you said about

-nol requiring some time to work is consistent with the REAL stories of female roommates sometimes acquiring

synchronized menstrual cycles after living together for an extended period of time. Again, this would support the

stance that the effect of pheros are subtle.

Interesting discussion.

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Interesting discussion.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Indeed!

If someone doesn\'t find you attractive without the pheros,

chances are they won\'t find you that much more attractive with \'em.


Holmes

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Interesting discussion.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Indeed!

If someone doesn\'t find you attractive without the pheros, chances are they

won\'t find you that much more attractive with \'em.


Holmes

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

yup

[franki]

Maybe if

they already met you this is true, but if they don\'t know you I can see how they suddenly could be a lot more

attracted... Not a 180 turn, but still.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jimhoff]

The

thing that I am confused about is all of the hit stories on here that claim that people have noticed others

immediately respond to the mones (ie. double takes, hanging around, touching, etc...) I have seen none of that, and

I consider myself to be above average looking.

J

[Pancho1188]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I think your expectations are too high... possibly

because you\'ve read too many hit stories on here that are likely big exaggerations. Pheros won\'t make you

into an instant stud. The harsh reality is that if a guy who\'s more attractive than you walks into the gym, I

don\'t care if you\'ve got on the most potent mix of pheros known to man, you essentially become irrelevent in

the ladies\' eyes. If an average Jane is working the scene at a bar and has on her PPA or copulins or whatever...

if a blonde bombshell walks in, the same will happen (the effect is more dramatic with men since they\'re more

dependent on visual stimulation than women).

You have to get yourself into the mindset that pheros aren\'t

hypnotic agents. My perspective is that, given the choice between two comparably looking people, this is where

pheros can make a difference. It\'s like spraying pheros onto one of two comparably tasty-looking soup

containers. But let\'s say one is chicken soup with huge, juicy chunks of meat and the other choice is a

greenish, slimy looking split pea and ham... spraying pheros onto the split pea and ham will not make any

difference. People will still overwhelmingly go for the chicken soup. Most people don\'t want to hear this

because it saddens them when they come to the realization that, in our world, yes looks are very important.



Pheros may make a difference between whether a date ends the night with a kiss or invites you up to their place

for the night. Point is, you still have to get yourself in the door using conventional interpersonal tactics.

Becoming phychologically reliant or disappointed in something that\'s not intrinsic to yourself is what the phero

manufacterers want. It\'s like the local drug dealer getting you hooked, knowing you\'re gonna be coming back

over and over.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Let\'s not forget the theory that

attractive people also produce more/better -mones, so in theory you\'re competing with their looks AND their

mones. If they\'re that attractive, they have a good chance of winning that battle.

[Sagacious1420]

Hey BH-

Sorry dude, that wasn\'t a dig, more like a friendly ribbing like I might do w/ one of my buddies.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I agree that pheros are just part of the total package. I try to

guard against attributing too much to pheros, whether positive or negative. I like Franki\'s analogy about pheros

being like a fishing lure. Sometimes you can spend the whole day \"fishing\" and not get a single bite, other

days it\'s like the fish are practically jumping into the boat...all w/ the same lure. There have been

rare occasions that I\'ve seen dramatic results. On those off times that I\'ve experienced truly

dramatic hits from women, I believe that it has more to do w/ the type of woman and how much I\'m on my game...in

addition to the influence of the pheros. There have also been times that, despite encountering a very receptive

woman, was looking good and was wearing a proven phero mix, I\'ve still managed to screw it up.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I\'ve found that even an OD can have variable results. Most

times it seems to yield either an \"indifference OD\" or a \"social hook-up\" expereince. On a few occasions,

I\'ve seen a whole room full of ppl become very aggressive, which Sacogoo might attribute to an excess of alcohol

and bad karaoke. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jvkohl]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Take another look at JVK\'s work maybe. Nol can

cause a hormonal response that could eventually lead to a sexual response, but it takes quite a bit of time and

it\'s not necessarily a conscious process. There seems to be some merit to the argument of \"comparable

attractivess\".

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

In men the hormone (testosterone) response can

occur in as little as 15 minutes. The testosterone (T) response is preceded by a luteinizing hormone response (LH),

which is preceded by a change in the gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH)pulse frequency. A fraction of the GnRH

molecule acts directly as a neurotransmitter in rats. Pheromones could thus have direct and immediate effects on

neurotrasmission linked to behavioral change-before change shows up in levels of LH or in T. Same way with the

effect of pheromones on estrogen (E)levels, and on mood in women. This gets a bit technical, but I didn\'t want

anyone to think that there is no immediate response. There may be an immediate response that depends on proximity

and what she\'s been condtioned to respond to.

[jimhoff]

So... I

should wear the mones when I am around rats... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Just kidding

[Biohazard]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Let\'s not forget the theory that attractive

people also produce more/better -mones, so in theory you\'re competing with their looks AND their mones. If

they\'re that attractive, they have a good chance of winning that battle.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">


But physical attractiveness is purely anatomical architecture -- facial symmetry, eye shape,

jaw/cheek shape, distance between the hairline and the eye brows, length of legs, muscle tone, waist:hip ratio, etc.

I don\'t see how it\'s in any way related to one\'s biochemistry. It\'s almost like saying that the guy

who made the cover of Men\'s Fitness magazine automatically must have a fast metabolism, ya know?

However,

it\'s a well-proven scientific phenomenon that men who are more physically active do indeed have higher serum

testosterone levels. Meaning, a fat guy who whips himself into shape will demonstrate measurable changes in

hormonal constituency. Which means, as he becomes more physically attractive, his chemical (pheros?) signature may

change. This is where you may find the correlation between looks and more pheros. I can tell you that when I was a

scrawny 17 y/o no girls noticed me. Six yrs later, add 40 pounds of muscle and an attitude, now I\'m getting

looks and the respect. I add in the pheros to give me a little edge, but I don\'t by that it\'ll make or break

me. Could it be that I\'m also naturally secreting more pheros as a result of nurture? Something to ponder.



Sagoo, no offense taken. Even if you were butting heads with me, it wouldn\'t matter cuz I\'m fascinated

with the science of pheros. Not much is documented in controlled settings, which means I have to rely more on human

testimonials (all perspectives) from people like yourself. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[MysteriousMan]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

But physical attractiveness is purely anatomical

architecture -- facial symmetry, eye shape, jaw/cheek shape, distance between the hairline and the eye brows, length

of legs, muscle tone, waist:hip ratio, etc. I don\'t see how it\'s in any way related to one\'s biochemistry.

It\'s almost like saying that the guy who made the cover of Men\'s Fitness magazine automatically must have a

fast metabolism, ya know?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I just wanted to add an aspect of

physical attractiveness that you don\'t cover.

I remember a girl I found very attractive and medium charming -

when she was sitting or standing. Then I saw how she was moving - and she turned to a big \"NO!\" sign for me.

Suddenly she has been very unattractive to me.

This also works the other way. A few girls at the gym that I would

classify as medium attractive move in a very harmonical way, you see a smooth flow of movements, you notice that

they hear the music. I am not at all talking about some form of erotic dancing. More something that expresses self

conciousness, self esteem and fun to express yourself.

When I see this, I find this girls very attractive.

I

have the impression that inner harmony, the ability to express music and self consciousness become physically

visible.

So if you agree that this is also physical attractiveness, physical attractiveness is more than purely

anatomical architecture. It is also an expression of your mind.

MysteriousMan

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

But physical attractiveness is purely anatomical architecture -- facial

symmetry, eye shape, jaw/cheek shape, distance between the hairline and the eye brows, length of legs, muscle tone,

waist:hip ratio, etc. I don\'t see how it\'s in any way related to one\'s biochemistry. It\'s almost like

saying that the guy who made the cover of Men\'s Fitness magazine automatically must have a fast metabolism, ya

know?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I just wanted to add an aspect of physical

attractiveness that you don\'t cover.

I remember a girl I found very attractive and medium charming - when she

was sitting or standing. Then I saw how she was moving - and she turned to a big \"NO!\" sign for me. Suddenly she

has been very unattractive to me.

This also works the other way. A few girls at the gym that I would classify as

medium attractive move in a very harmonical way, you see a smooth flow of movements, you notice that they hear the

music. I am not at all talking about some form of erotic dancing. More something that expresses self conciousness,

self esteem and fun to express yourself.

When I see this, I find this girls very attractive.

I have the

impression that inner harmony, the ability to express music and self consciousness become physically visible.

So

if you agree that this is also physical attractiveness, physical attractiveness is more than purely anatomical

architecture. It is also an expression of your mind.

MysteriousMan

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">


Agree with Mr. Mystery. I find male dancers (the one who MOVE like males-- think Swayze, Gene

Kelly, Flately EXTREMELY sexy, when they move. They move with a compelling, masculine, feline (think pantheric)

grace.

I was once visiting a karate dojo. The sensai was a geeky-looking little guy, with coke-bottle glasses.

Then, he did the dragon dance.........

Wit is also exptremely sexy. So is confidence, it it is real, and isn\'t

just narcissism.

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Wit is also exptremely sexy.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yeah, but brevity has more soul. It\'s just funkier.


Holmes

[cabo]

i to have

purchased PI, SOE, &amp; TE &amp; have not experienced any hits postitive or otherwise. i have combined SOE w/ PI to

experiment in an office environment &amp; well as in casual settings. I have observed zero difference. i will

increase my dosage from 2 drops to 2+ to experiment but have my doubts.
STILL HOPEFUL

[Biohazard]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
i to have purchased PI, SOE, &amp; TE &amp; have

not experienced any hits postitive or otherwise. i have combined SOE w/ PI to experiment in an office environment

&amp; well as in casual settings. I have observed zero difference. i will increase my dosage from 2 drops to 2+ to

experiment but have my doubts.
STILL HOPEFUL

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

As I implied

above, pheros give you a little bit of an edge. Or as some people put it, it makes other people notice you more.

But then people still must react to your intrinsic qualities. Think of it as fishing. You put the bait out,

something bites, but you still need to reel it in.

I stress the importance of visual cues, which is mostly

physical looks. The others above have elegantly suggested there\'s also more intangibles -- style, movement,

sense of humor, etc. The pheros may get you noticed, but if your don\'t have any of the above, it just ain\'t

gonna happen for ya. Not implying anything about you personally, but here\'s an analogy. Let\'s say a girl is

wearing pheros or something that smells really, really nice. It makes my head turn to search for the source, but

the girl is disgustingly obese. I\'m just gonna ignore her.

[AzMike]

Haven\'t been on here for just about 2 weeks. Mid-December is a busy time of year.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] No real hits during the past 14 days, using TESO and PPA. I had

originally poured about 40 percent of my Edge into a spray bottle, when that was exhausted in early December,

started applying TESO directly from the original bottle using dabs, instead of spraying. That didn\'t change

anything.

One thing to note: I was in a rush to meet someone for carpooling to a Xmas party on the 13th, and

after I left my place, realized I had forgotten to put any mones on. First time this had happened since Oct 1.

There were over 150 people there. No one there, including the women, seemed to treat me any less good than when I

had a mone application on. I may have had some residual mones from the previous day\'s application, but I did

shower thoroughly before going to this party.

AzMike

[FerroMone]

Well as

for SOE it gives me some inconsistent results. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. There are probably thousands

of contributing factors for pheromone success. Such as the age of the girl, hormonal status, humidity, temperature,

etc.