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  1. #1
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    Default Morality, Maturity and Mones

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    It\'s been

    awhile since morality and mone use have been addressed specifically as a Thread Topic. With all the newer members

    now with us I thought it would be a good time to discus the issue. I am most interested to read the thoughts on this

    subject from some of these newer and younger, teenage and early 20\'s, members.

    I have been using mones

    with both social and (finally) sexual success for the past 6 months or so. With the social mixes I use, my life is

    much better all the way around. People are happy to be around me and very friendly toward me. I am a nice person but

    a bit reclusive and mone\'s have made social interaction very easy for me. My world is different now. I don\'t

    see a morality issue at all in the positive reactions I get from using mone\'s socially.

    As for my sexual

    success with mone\'s, Hmmm,,, here we go.

    I have had one sexual (semi on-going) relationship using

    mone\'s. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the relationship would never have happened were it not for

    mone\'s!!!! The woman is 17 years younger than me and is DDG, which is quite rare where I live. The use of

    social mone\'s got me in the door. My charm, my whit, my overall wonderful personality and mone\'s got us into

    bed together. She ain\'t complaining and neither am I but it never would have happened without the mone\'s. We

    haven\'t talked about a future together. I don\'t really see a long term relationship with her but both she and

    I have found a good friend in each other and this is a very positive thing. A positive thing that never would have

    happened if not for the mone\'s. I have no intention telling her I\'m on the \"juice\"!!!!

    Was it

    immoral of me to use mone\'s to get her into bed? Now that we are good friends, is it immoral of me not to tell

    her about mone\'s?

    I\'m an older man and somewhat mellowed by age. I wonder what it would have been like

    for me to have used mone\'s when I was younger. Looking back on my life as a younger man I don\'t think it would

    have been good for me to use them. It\'s important to note here that I don\'t think mone\'s are in any way

    like ruffie\'s. The use of mone\'s DOES NOT cause anybody to do anything against their will but they are very

    influential and in some settings they are powerfully influential. This would not have been a good thing for me to

    have had when I was younger. Please note in my last sentence the use of \" I \". I am speaking for myself and not

    generalizing. I will expand on my reasons for believing this as reply\'s are made to this thread.



  2. #2
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    I can see

    where you are coming from.. You say wouldn\'t been good for your own personal development if you would have used

    mones at a younger age, but what does it have to do with morality?

  3. #3
    Banned User EXIT63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Anyone

    know where I can get some roofies?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    When

    discussing the moral issue of pheromone use, one would have to state by what \"morals\" they are judging.

    Federal, State, Local Law \"morals\"? Christian morals? Muslim morals? I say as long as they stay within the

    law, pheromone users can and should buy and use pheromones at their own discretion, just as with any other everyday

    consumer goods. Comparing pheromones to spikes, mickeys, roofies, is bullshit. All those are drugs used to

    incapacitate someone against their will and have sex with them in their weakened state. Pheromones just increase

    your desireability towards the opposite sex. I guess there should be laws against working out at the gym as well,

    because that does damn near the same thing, and with more solid results. Push-ups bras and make-up for women.

    Those should be heavily regulated as well I suppose? See what I mean about bullshit?

    Slinger

  5. #5
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default The Universal Ethical Principle

    It\'s

    phrased differently in different languages in almost all cultures. Philosophers come to the same conclusion as

    theologians.

    Most of us know it as \"Do unto others as we would have others do unto us.\"


    The question

    then becomes, we we be happy to find out that our new spouse used pheromones to attract us and get us to

    commit?

    Personally, I don\'t think I\'d have a problem with that.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Here\'s

    my take on it. If it isn\'t hurting anyone, go for it. Many of these products put people in a good mood. Is there

    anything immoral about making someone happier? We all do different things to make ourselves more attractive to the

    opposite sex. Phero\'s are no different. They don\'t make a person do something that they wouldn\'t ordinarily

    do. This topic is such an individual thing. Everyone has their own opinion and will have to decide for themselves

    whether it\'s ethical, or not, to use them. For myself, it\'s no different then putting on a good cologne in

    hopes that the scent will attract the opposite sex. The funny thing is, that no one would ever question someone

    using a nice cologne to accomplish what we here are trying to accomplish with phero\'s.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Brian

  7. #7
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Anyone know where I can get some roofies?

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I\'ll hook ya up. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Anyone know where I can get some roofies?

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    I\'ll hook ya up. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    That\'s what Elana\'s been using on the forum members all along.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    Banned User Elana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Nope.

    That\'s kiddie stuff. I use the good stuff on my forum peeps [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Nice to

    know that your not skimping on the crap! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    The one

    distinction from other \'attractiveness enhancers\' (like clothes, cologne, makeup, charm, conversation, fit

    body, etc.) is that pheros operate on the unconscious. The other things I mentioned are perceived consciously and

    the viewer understands consciously about the attractiveness (she sees the clothes or whatever, and decides

    consciously what that means to her). Pheros, if they operate like we think, bypass the conscious perception and work

    deep in the limbic and/or reptilian brain. They work whether targets consciously perceive an odor or not.

    And

    that\'s why phero use is exciting. We like to hit our \'victim\' with pheros unawares. Thus the cologne

    \'cover\', to secretly influence our target without her conscious knowledge. I don\'t think many of us would

    admit to the target that we were using the \'juice\', although I may be wrong about that. I myself certainly

    don\'t admit it to anyone.

    I don\'t have a problem with the sneaky side of it, because I accept my own

    sneakiness and get a little thrill out of being more \'attractive\' than my genetics and obvious traits would

    indicate. Others may find covert influence unethical, and I can\'t argue with that - I see the point. But I\'ll

    still just go ahead and admit the ethics are dubious at best, and keep trying to score with women I don\'t deserve

    (by nature). It\'s my dirty little secret.

  12. #12
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Score one (or more...)

    Score one for the

    competitive advantage of intelligence.

    I think a case can be made that women have spread their legs for dumb

    jocks far too much for the true advancement of the human species. Intelligence should be rewarded more and I think

    the intelligent use of pheromones might just do that.

  13. #13
    Phero Dude
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    Good point

    Whitehall! I\'ve gotta experiment with mones other than at bars. I doubt that they will work as well at the gym

    with sweat involved. I\'m definitely looking forward to testing at a popular bech here in Mpls. Unfortunately that

    will not be for another 7 months! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    I agree - the

    beta male (or omega!) that lurks on the fringes while the alphas fight it out, and sneaks over to the female while

    the \'real\' males are distracted, passes his genes along as surely as the \'noble\' alphas. There\'s room

    for a little sneakiness in the gene pool!

    Plus I don\'t want to overstate the possible shady ethics of phero

    use. The case mentioned of drug rape is different on many grounds from unconscious attractiveness enhancement from

    phero use. The drug rapist obliterates his victim\'s will and ability to resist - then he rapes her. A phero user

    makes himself more attractive in an unconscious way, but he doesn\'t nullify the target\'s will. He attempts to

    influence her to follow his will, and he does it in a way not obvious, but her will is still intact. No one is

    compelled to submit to an attractive seducer, even though we may find it tempting to do so.

  15. #15
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    Pheromones

    are especially effective in libraries....

  16. #16
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Pheromones are especially effective in

    libraries....

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Yes, they are indeed.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    If you do something

    that makes someone feel good.

    If you do something that makes them have a good time.

    If they have a good time

    or feel good when they wouldn\'t have if you hadn\'t done the thing.

    Are you hurting them?

    I don\'t

    think so.

    If pheros can make someone feel good you are improving their life as well as your own.

  18. #18
    Phero Enthusiast Sacogoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Score one (or more...)

    xvs writes:


    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    If they have a good time or feel good when they

    wouldn\'t have if you hadn\'t done the thing.

    Are you hurting them?

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    The potential problems/moral issues with the use of pheromones is several:

    1. They are

    supposedly working on the subconscious level, where they are purportedly affecting/adjusting individuals perceptions

    and reactions covertly. Would the use of synthetic pheromones to alter the perceptions and thoughts (and primarily

    sexual feelings) of people through the subconscious via subterfuge be deemed as acceptable or normal by society?
    2.

    The use of synthetic pheromones has the potential to change the process of natural selection. Where an individual

    may not have found a person attractive/appealing/desirable without the use of pheromones, they now find the

    pheromone user engaging enough to consider them as qualified to be a sexual mate. (There are reasons why the more

    dominant of a species is preferred/chosen for mates. Does the use of synthetic pheromones have the potential to

    slowly degrade the overall quality of the human species by allowing a greater percentage of ineffectual/mediocre

    individuals to at least have the ability to reproduce? )

    Regardless of the possible beneficial outcome to

    affected/influenced individuals, or if there is minimal or negligible \"hurting\" on a physical or emotional

    level, synthetic pheromones are being employed as a method to change/adjust/affect another persons views/perceptions

    on a subconscious level surreptitiously. At least to me, this most certainly brings up questions and concerns on a

    moral and ethic level, and I can envision that all it would take is a couple of pissed off people (\"I can\'t

    believe that I actually slept with that bag of crap. What\'s this in their nightstand? Pheromones? That SOB

    tricked me into sleeping with him/her?! I\'m calling my congressman about this!\" And all of a sudden you have

    a senate subcommittee grilling Bruce, JVK, and the phero power players about moral issues, and then the FDA is

    really all over it like stink on a monkey - not too mention the outrage and condemnation by the right wing

    fundamental moralists.)

    Basically, I think that it is a sneaky, underhanded, licentious way to try to help

    people who would otherwise sit around with a thumb up their butt as they watch those who actually deserve to get

    laid get laid. You are a gutless turd who doesn\'t have the grapes to ask someone out, or you are just one of

    those people who will live their life on the fringes of physical and emotional mediocrity, or you are just a walking

    pile of wretched malfeasance and sexual deviance. Either way, you are trying to get nook by being a sneak. Is that

    just wrong and bad, or are you simply following the path of \"All\'s fair in love and war.\" and using

    technology to gain the upper hand?

    That being said, I own the following products: The Edge, Primal Instinct, New

    Pheromone Additive, Pheromol Factor, Pheromax, Alter-Ego, WAGG-N, Rogue Male, Andro 4.2, Attraction, Scent of Eros,

    PPA, and various Super Primal Essential Oils. And previous to discovering pheromones, I have told women that my

    name is Lance and that I was one or more of the following: professional baseball player, model, FBI agent, contract

    assassin, race car driver, and neuro surgeon. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Irish

    writes:
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

    I don\'t have a problem with the sneaky

    side of it, because I accept my own sneakiness and get a little thrill out of being more \'attractive\' than my

    genetics and obvious traits would indicate.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    People do this sort

    of thing all the time, and women perhaps more than men. What do you think that seductive eye make-up is for (the

    stuff that makes your legs wobble when she bows her head slightly and looks up at you...), or that slinky red dress,

    or that intoxicating perfume(!)...

    Like Whitehall said, its about time some of \"the right stuff\" got it\'s

    fair share of the gene pool.

    CK &lt;-----the right stuff [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


    Like Whitehall said, its about time some of

    \"the right stuff\" got it\'s fair share of the gene pool.



    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    I hate to piss on the parade and it\'s nothing personal, but this sounds very nerdy.....

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    Irony

    my dear franki, irony...

    Hey, what you saying about my right stuff!?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Morality, Maturity and Mones

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Irony my dear franki, irony...

    Hey, what you

    saying about my right stuff!? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]



    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I just want to

    warn you that even though it is meant ironic, it doesn\'t sound good at all.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default It\'s all in your head and heart

    No

    one begrudges Bill Gates his hot wife. Envy - maybe, but few can say Gates, the quintessential nerd, doesn\'t

    deserve her.

    Computers are so last millenium - biotech is the 21st Century.

    As to craftiness, I wasn\'t

    lonely before pheromones but my scoring probablity has improved with them. Plus, I can exert subtle control over

    social situations in many positive ways.

    Like the arguments about gun control, the morality of the actions depend

    not on the technical features so much as on the character of the human using it.

    Pheromones offer new powers to

    individuals - how you - YOU - use those powers is the moral and ethical issue.


  24. #24
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    Exactly, the morality of this situation can only be evaluated by looking at the individual.



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I just want to warn you that even though it is meant

    ironic, it doesn\'t sound good at all.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Oh no, now I\'m

    upset! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  25. #25
    Phero Enthusiast Sacogoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    Whitehall writes:
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Like the arguments about gun

    control, the morality of the actions depend not on the technical features so much as on the character of the human

    using it.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    However, unlike the gun, the proverbial trigger has

    already been pulled as soon as you put on the pheromones. You\'ve got no control over the subconscious

    reactions/feelings of the people being affected by them as you\'re already shooting down everybody that comes

    within smelling distance. It ain\'t like you got a choice of which people are going to smell them and those who

    don\'t. You\'re just a raging shotgun wielding madman in terms of subconscious perceptions. A freakin\' live

    grenade.

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    No one begrudges Bill Gates his hot

    wife. Envy - maybe, but few can say Gates, the quintessential nerd, doesn\'t deserve her.

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Bill Gates is the post Industrial Revolution alpha male. It\'s no

    longer just about bigger and stronger equal better. There\'s fiscal considerations that come into play in terms

    of the new order of natural selection. Fame, power, money are the bulging biceps and brooding brows of the 21st

    century. As I\'ve stated before, one man\'s bottle of Primal Instinct is another man\'s Ferrari. They\'re

    both meant to do exactly the same thing.

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


    Pheromones offer new powers to individuals - how you - YOU - use those powers is the moral and ethical issue.



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I beg to differ. The individual has no physical control over how

    other are going to perceive them in terms of the pheromones having the potential to alter that perception. You

    don\'t \"use\" them in a specific manner. You apply them and away you go. Damn the consquences because you

    don\'t have any control over how others are going to perceive you after the application.

    That\'s the moral

    dilema. You are using a synthetic product in order to enhance peoples subconscious perceptions of you. Unless you

    inform each and every person you come into contact with that you are wearing synthetic pheromones that may

    subconsciously alter their perception of you, then you are knowingly attempting to deceive and dupe people. At

    least to me, that isn\'t completely morally correct. May god have mercy on your evil, duplicitous soul you vile

    swines! (Maybe phero products should come with warning T-shirts: \"I am wearing pheromones so that others will

    perceive me as more attractive, assertive and dominant. Please react accordingly.\")

  26. #26
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    Sacogoo:

    What you are talking about is perception. Perception at the subconcous level can be affected by the way

    you dress, your demeanor or how you speak amongst many other things. We\'ve all seen how some people abuse their

    natural gifts, whether it be looks or the ability to convince others. How an individual uses that perception is the

    real issue. If You are using a perception to harm others then you are doing wrong whether you are wearing pheromones

    or not. Pheromones are simply another tool used in the age old game. So long as you are not forcing yourself on

    somebody or chemically subduing their will, you are not harming them. They still have the free choice in how to

    respond to you.

    I am curious though. If you feel so strongly that the use of pheromones is evil, what are you

    doing here?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    If you feel so strongly that the use of pheromones

    is evil, what are you doing here?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Hell, it\'s fun to be

    evil!

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Here\'s my take on it. If it isn\'t

    hurting anyone, go for it.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    There it is.


    Holmes

  28. #28
    Phero Enthusiast Sacogoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    belgareth writes:
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Perception at the subconcous

    level can be affected by the way you dress, your demeanor or how you speak amongst many other things. We\'ve all

    seen how some people abuse their natural gifts, whether it be looks or the ability to convince others.

    <hr

    /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    The problem is, those things (clothes, actions, cologne, mannerisms,

    etc.) are not on the subconscious level. These are things that can be identified through sight, sound, smell.

    These are things that people can perceive through their senses and can react in a manner to which their particular

    tastes and perceptions are attuned towards. However, pheromones are typically being used by those who are knowingly

    using deception attempting to influence others on a subconscious level.

    Are pheromones any different than, say,

    subliminal messages in advertising? Are pheromones the Coca-Cola picture spliced into the movie previews at the

    theater?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    So long as you are not forcing

    yourself on somebody or chemically subduing their will, you are not harming them.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    But to a certain degree you are forcing yourself on them, or at the vary least, making an

    attempt to change their views and opinions about you subconsciously. There are numerous testimonials throughout the

    forum postings that indicate that \"I would have never gotten a person like this if it weren\'t for the

    pheromones.\" Doesn\'t that indicate that the pheromones are actually changing a particular persons

    views/perceptions? I\'m pretty certain that most people don\'t let on that they are using pheromones during

    their relationships with people, so it seems pretty obvious that at least some individuals are making a conscious

    effort to alter a persons views for their own benefit. Is that type of action something that would be considered

    morally correct? Perhaps it depends on the individual, but I\'m not certain that society as a whole fully

    understands pheromones, and most probably discounts or dismisses their effect on the subconscious due to skepticism

    from a lack of understanding, exposure, objective government research (if that\'s even possible), or whatever.



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    They still have the free choice in how to respond

    to you.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Do they? From experience, I don\'t know if they do or

    not. This obviously has a multitude of factors to consider, but I do know that by using pheromones I immediately

    saw and experienced what I feel were positive reactions that would not have taken place without them on a

    subconscious level.

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I am curious though. If

    you feel so strongly that the use of pheromones is evil, what are you doing here?

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Because not only do I play the devil\'s advocate on this board, I am, in real life, the dark

    lord of all things evil.

  29. #29
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    Sacogoo:

    You dodged the question. If you believe mones are unethical, why are you using them? Your actions and

    your statements are contraddictory. Or are your arguments wholly spurious?

    Considering mones to be unethical is

    akin to considering working out or dressing beyond your means to be unethical. All of them create impressions that

    ARE NOT wholly on the concious level. Powerful techniques are taught in psycology to create rapport and lower

    another person\'s resistance, are they unethical as well? None of them will force somebody into bed with you.

    Using the same logic, a very glib guy talking a not so quick lady into bed would be unethical. Isn\'t it much more

    unethical to buy somebody several drinks in an effort to seduce her? You are using drugs to circumvent her free

    will. If she has already had several, her judgment is probably impaired to some degree. Just because alcohol is

    socially acceptable does not mean that it is right. It certainly reduces the person\'s free choice far more than a

    sober person being affected by mones would. Where would you like to draw the line?


  30. #30
    Banned User EXIT63's Avatar
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    Default Re: It\'s all in your head and heart

    This

    is all old news and nonsense.

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