Question for the men!!

[WonderingThoughts]

Men, I

know for a short term relationship (the kind where you only want sex) it probably don\'t matter whether the woman

or you make the first move. But when it comes to a long term relationship (the kind that will result in possible

marriage) do you prefer the woman to make the first move or do you like to make the first move? If you like to get

some kind of sign from the woman that she is interested before you make your first move what would be that sign?

[dogsbutt]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Men, I know for a short term relationship (the kind

where you only want sex) it probably don\'t matter whether the woman or you make the first move. But when it

comes to a long term relationship (the kind that will result in possible marriage) do you prefer the woman to make

the first move or do you like to make the first move?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Honestly?

Since I\'m not really good at predicting the future, it STILL doesn\'t matter. I\'ve had plenty of long-term

relationships with women I was \"just\" going to have sex with. It turned out

1) sex was great, worth doing

again
2) we had fun together

There are still some guys who think they can\'t/shouldn\'t/won\'t have a

long-term relationship with someone they\'ve scored with on the first date (because you can\'t bring her home to

mother), but those are a dying breed. I personally like women who are comfortable enough with their sexuality to

have sex WHEN THEY WANT TO HAVE IT, NOT WHEN OTHERS DEEM IT APPROPRIATE.

I make no separation between girls I

JUST want to F@#! and those who are \"long-term.\" I let circumstances

decide.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
If you like to get some kind of sign

from the woman that she is interested before you make your first move what would be that sign?


<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

When she says, \"nice shoes, wanna

F@#!?\"

[ThE_DeAd_KoBy]

Well,

this answer is coming from a Christian man who is in a great relationship now... we will be married in time I am

sure. When you really care about someone and respect their body and spirit, as I do hers, I will normally ask. We

do not have sexual relations, as is not biblical to do so, however, when I want to make an advance, I will ask

politely. Plus, it keeps you out of trouble. Imagine you just start running your fingers through her hair...

after she spent 3 hours getting it perfect... he he.. should have asked. Now that we\'ve been together for

this long... a simple \"may I...\" is all it takes.

I guess it depends on your beliefs, but I believe

that a person\'s sexuality is sacred, and there are limits to affections outside of a marriage. So it goes.

[Sacogoo]

The Dead Koby

writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
We do not have sexual relations, as is

not biblical to do so, however, when I want to make an advance, I will ask politely. Plus, it keeps you out of

trouble. Imagine you just start running your fingers through her hair... after she spent 3 hours getting it

perfect... he he.. should have asked. Now that we\'ve been together for this long... a simple \"may I...\" is

all it takes.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You\'ve got to be kidding, right? If I had to

wait for a positive response from a \"May I...\" I\'d have been bettor off taking that $7500 I pissed away on

that dumb ring and bought a lifetime subscription to Penthouse and a gallon jug of Astroglide. I most certainly

would have never had anal sex in my life if I had asked \"may I?\".

Anyway, to address the intended

question:

WonderingThoughts writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
But when

it comes to a long term relationship (the kind that will result in possible marriage) do you prefer the woman to

make the first move or do you like to make the first move?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That

all depends on who can hold out the longest. If you\'re in the mood to grab that package, just grab the package.

I\'m sure he won\'t complain. I know I wouldn\'t. Most guys wouldn\'t. We\'re more shy than woman give

us credit for, and if a guy is trying to be a gentleman, he may not make that move for fear of offending or worse.

(It took me 6 months into the relationship with my first serious girlfriend back in my junior year of high school to

get up the balls to go for second base. Afterwards, she asked why did it take so long for me to make my move.

Crap, I was just trying to be a \"nice\" guy, and here I find out that she\'s been wanting me to jump her bones

the whole time.)

The meek might inherit the earth, but they won\'t get laid in the process.

Now listening

to: Jane\'s Addiction\'s \"Jane\'s Addiction - XXX\"

[Bernard]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
That all depends on who can hold out the longest.

If you\'re in the mood to grab that package, just grab the package. I\'m sure he won\'t complain. I know I

wouldn\'t. Most guys wouldn\'t. We\'re more shy than woman give us credit for, and if a guy is trying to be a

gentleman, he may not make that move for fear of offending or worse. (It took me 6 months into the relationship with

my first serious girlfriend back in my junior year of high school to get up the balls to go for second base.

Afterwards, she asked why did it take so long for me to make my move. Crap, I was just trying to be a \"nice\"

guy, and here I find out that she\'s been wanting me to jump her bones the whole time.)

The meek might inherit

the earth, but they won\'t get laid in the process.



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

i have

same sentiment with sacoogo on this part [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Jones]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Men, I know for a short term relationship (the kind

where you only want sex) it probably don\'t matter whether the woman or you make the first move. But when it

comes to a long term relationship (the kind that will result in possible marriage) do you prefer the woman to make

the first move or do you like to make the first move? If you like to get some kind of sign from the woman that she

is interested before you make your first move what would be that sign?


<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

The man should still make the first move. The more you touch the guy, the higher the

likelyhood that hes gonna kiss you.

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
You\'ve got to be kidding, right? If I had to

wait for a positive response from a \"May I...\" I\'d have been bettor off taking that $7500 I pissed away on

that dumb ring and bought a lifetime subscription to Penthouse and a gallon jug of Astroglide. I most certainly

would have never had anal sex in my life if I had asked \"may I?\".

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[EXIT63]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Men, I know for a short term relationship (the kind

where you only want sex) it probably don\'t matter whether the woman or you make the first move. But when it

comes to a long term relationship (the kind that will result in possible marriage) do you prefer the woman to make

the first move or do you like to make the first move? If you like to get some kind of sign from the woman that she

is interested before you make your first move what would be that sign?

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

Just because you like to ask the same question 10 different ways doesn\'t mean the answer is

going to be any different. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just because you like to ask the same question 10

different ways doesn\'t mean the answer is going to be any different.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\"> Damn! Thanks Exit63. I am glad someone said it. She is going to keep asking until she hears what

she thinks she wants to hear. She really needs to find a Christian forum so everyone can agree with how men love

shy, innocent girls. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Sexyredhead]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
She really needs to find a Christian forum so

everyone can agree with how men love shy, innocent girls.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">



Ouch! Don\'t go bashing the Christians, Elana. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I really

don\'t know that many shy, retiring Christian girls, so don\'t go putting this on us!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Look, WT, here\'s my two cents on this guy you\'ve

been interested in. I think he\'s enjoying the attention he gets from you. He also doesn\'t like it when other

guys flirt with you because it takes away from \'his\' attention. I do not think he\'s interested enough to

ask you out. And why should he? He knows he\'s got you anytime he wants right now.
Get this book:


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0962067164/qid=1067344713/sr=1-1/ref=sr_

1_1/002-3040659-9221611?v=glance&amp;s=books

It will help you if you\'re not good at picking up body

language cues. Otherwise, live your life like you would if he wasn\'t there. Flirt with him and everybody else. Go

out, have fun, quit wondering. Do you really want to end up with a guy who never has the balls to make a decision,

or one who never gets around to doing things? Or maybe one who possibly enjoys playing mindgames with people? If

he\'s interested, he\'ll ask you out. If not, then you may finally hear from whichever guy\'s been waiting for

you to get over this crush you\'ve got so HE can ask you out.

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Ouch! Don\'t go bashing the Christians, Elana.

I really don\'t know that many shy, retiring Christian girls, so don\'t go putting this on us!

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You are absolutely correct. Let me change that to born again Christians.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Elana]

OK...I am

changing this one last time at the risk of offending anyone.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

She should find herself a shy girls that like shy guys, and the

guys that never ask them out, forum

[Elana]

or there is

always shy, passive-aggressive prudes from KY. I hear that\'s a fun group

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Sexyredhead]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ThE_DeAd_KoBy]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
The Dead Koby writes:
You\'ve got to be

kidding, right? If I had to wait for a positive response from a \"May I...\" I\'d have been bettor off taking

that $7500 I pissed away on that dumb ring and bought a lifetime subscription to Penthouse and a gallon jug of

Astroglide. I most certainly would have never had anal sex in my life if I had asked \"may I?\".


<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That is such a nice thought.......grr. Take my commentary our of context

and really mess it up..... gee thanks. Allow me to state that I will be marrying one of the most wonderful

girls..... Indeed the kind of girl that makes a wife. Makes me happy for sure. Just because we have different

values doesn\'t make me wrong. To each his own I guess.

[Holmes]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just because you like to ask the same question 10

different ways doesn\'t mean the answer is going to be any different.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


Holmes

[Brian]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Look, WT, here\'s my two cents on this guy

you\'ve been interested in. I think he\'s enjoying the attention he gets from you. He also doesn\'t like it

when other guys flirt with you because it takes away from \'his\' attention. I do not think he\'s interested

enough to ask you out. And why should he? He knows he\'s got you anytime he wants right now.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I think he\'s a joke. Dump the jerk, and get on with your life for

christ sake. How long are you going to keep this crap up with him? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Come up with a new question, this ones getting old!

Brian

[Kari]

Agree.

Playful-to-less-playful touches will get him to make the first move. Or, let him THINK he\'s making the first

move.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Just because you like to ask the same question 10 different ways doesn\'t

mean the answer is going to be any different.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> Damn! Thanks Exit63. I

am glad someone said it. She is going to keep asking until she hears what she thinks she wants to hear. She really

needs to find a Christian forum so everyone can agree with how men love shy, innocent girls.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Well, at least two of my friends married gals who stayed over, on the

first date, and then never went home.

I don\'t think the good girl/bad girl rule works anymore.

I think

the line of delineation is not to let him take you for granted, not [censored] or not [censored].

Remember, good

girls go to heaven. Bad girls go EVERYWHERE. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Pancho1188]

I still say

that you should ask him out or move on.

As they say:
\"He who hesitates, masturbates.\"
\"If you have a

dream, wake up and live it!\"
\"What\'s all this lying around [censored]?!?!?!\" - Animal House
\"You\'ll

never get anywhere by sitting around waiting for something to happen.\"
\"Life moves pretty fast. If you

don\'t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.\" - Ferris Bueller\'s Day Off

If that\'s

not enough inspiration for you to do something, then you\'ll just be lost in Wondering Thoughts...

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Pancho

[Sacogoo]

The Dead Koby

writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Take my commentary our of context and

really mess it up..... gee thanks.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I wasn\'t taking it out of

context. I was expressing amazement that you actually ask your girlfriend if it\'s okay with her to advance to

certain body areas while you make out. That you respect her body and virtue is excellent, but just asking to

\"procede\" seemed, um, different. However, if it works for you, I think that rocks. I was in a relationship

similar to this with girl who wanted to save her \"virtue\" for marriage. And I respected that, so we did

everything possibly imaginable to pleasure ourselves with each other with the exception of vaginal intercourse.

Personally, I feel that it really helped make me a better lover for the long term as I was able to explore the

female body in totallity (almost) instead of just diving in, humping like a wild animal and then calling it a night.

However, just as an FYI, after we broke up, she got married, and called me crying the day she got back from her

honeymoon and expressed that she wished we had actually made love every day we were together.



</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Allow me to state that I will be marrying one of

the most wonderful girls.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I\'m sure she is, and I think that it

wonderful that you\'ve found someone who you have compatibility with and love.

</font><blockquote><font

class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Indeed the kind of girl that makes a wife.

<hr /></blockquote><font

class=\"post\">

What does that mean? Wouldn\'t just about any kind of girl make a wife? Are you suggesting

that good Christian girls are the only girls that are appropriate marriage material? Just curious.



</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Makes me happy for sure.

<hr

/></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

That\'s the most important thing. Actually, the most important thing

is that you are both happy. Just don\'t end up being a doormat in the process (unless you want to be).

Now

listening to: KMFDM\'s \"Retro\"
\"Cut these eyes and I will see. Kiss these lying lips for me. Stroke this

skin, I will kneel. Brutalize me - I will heal.\"

[ThE_DeAd_KoBy]

In the

earliest stages of the relationship I did ask politely... If you\'ve known a girl for all of... 4 hours, she may

not take nicely to advances..... that\'s what I meant. We established the \"code of conduct\" as it were for

our physical contact... so we agree to stay within that boundary.

Interestingly enough, it does give me lots of

time to master the other art forms... I am becoming a mighty good kisser because of it...... he he

[tallmacky]

A MUST read for anyone who is talking about marriage, being classy, and stuff.

------------------------------------------
Excerpt: 20.3

Author: John William Drakken

Date: June 1886

Title: \"Erecting the nunnery\"

Simply a flash. A shockingly erotic flash of such amazement and promptness, that it did not take even one stroke of my fervent rebellious penis to come into full bloom. I cannot say my dear friends, that this image was going to be acted out as my usual sexual perversities adventures have been via past tense. Why lively as I most certainly can be, this I believed initially may cross the boundaries of even my very own ability to offend the tastes and morals of our precious time, and to become the sexual entity of the man beast which burns with great furor. At this time I am pressured to believe you are burning with the question \"What great Drakken do you plan?\". Well. I have made my plans to take a dashing trip to Edinburgh in order to release the sexual beast within a small clan of highly devoted Nuns. They would come to love the taste of Drakken.

To Scotland I decided, and more exacting to Edinburgh. A man of dignity and nobility as myself will have to take a step down for the betterment of human existence it\'s very self. I would need the aid of more than my own mind powers of ravishing sexual seduction. I planned to meet up with an old chum of mine. Peter McDougland. Our bound was very close as he aided me in my first relationship of dastardly sodomy, don\'t worry friends. I have not once bitten a pillow it was his dear wife who let me explore her droppings hole, and the taste will forever be cherished. I needed to see Mr. McDougland\'s live stock; they carried the very product I would need for my seizure of the nun\'s love tunnel. It was the love juices of these Cows, and pigs that I would need. As McDougland departed. I approached a very large and may I say sexy male pig. I viewed that this was a marvelous find, his deep sulken pink penis hung like a year old sausage crafted by the best Italian chef hands known to man. I must seize this young porkers juices. I crept down and placed my knees upon the filth, I then pulled the pigs backside fat apart and proceeded to delve my ring finger deep within it\'s anal cavity, it was my duty. The pig\'s oinks of pleasure feel upon deaf ears, as I was here as a whore, with no passion or grace. As the pig?s erection rose I had to embrace the powerful shaft and let it be known that I needed those beautiful creamy juices for my plot of the nuns. With every squeeze the pig growled, as I could see this pig was indeed a \"minute man\". Soon his juices spattered about as I grabbed my vile luckily the needed amount made its way in. As for the rest...well an evening brunch was in due need?

Shall I be ashamed? Maybe, but indeed I am a bit crazy. Along with the love juice I had acquired sweet pig sweat, urine, and a few bottom hairs which dangled feces. A few pimmies and my friends I was off. Nothing, nothing but the prize was \'a gleaming in my eyes. I approached the towering door and with a few knocks and a few moments. I was approached by a very fair nun who\'s age and prude ness gave me a glimpse into her dormant vagina which the only insertion was indeed only a excretion of past menstrual cycles, which poured like rotten tomato soup. How Divine. With a majestic roar I screamed. \"This is what you shall become\" With a torrid splash my liquid creation had made it\'s way deep within this nun\'s mouth and around her face, similar in respect to a shot of semen upon one\'s face. I witnessed the great metamorphosis. Her breasts had ballooned, her eyes the sheer desire, the desire to flickken du hasten. She was a wild beast at this very moment. She grabbed upon my burgeoning ramrod, and with saliva drooling began to give me sweet fellatio, on the very doorsteps. What a crafty bastard I was. The other congregated women watched, watched without hate, but with lust and love. I shouted like a demanding young prince, \"dear women come and enjoy all that is Drakken\". What ensued? An orgy of the old with wrinkles and aged canals that were once lighten again with the magic of lust. These women had become the legendary whores of Babylon. Admittedly so, this was a taste of heaven, but not so quick. I had invited some of my friends. Those farm animals I had met on the farm of Mr. McDougland. Are we not all creatures of God? Should we also extend our love to all? It was, an orgy of acceptance and love. Everyone would receive proper enjoyment. The roars, oinks, and moos, and human ecstasy was a fusion to the most blissful degree.

I bid a due farewell my dear friends, do not dream of another beautiful day, expect it.

- Drakken

[Sacogoo]

The Dead Koby writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
In the earliest stages of the relationship I did ask politely... If you\'ve known a girl for all of... 4 hours, she may not take nicely to advances..... that\'s what I meant.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

You should have said that. I was picturing you, with a forlorn but amorous look in your eyes after spending 15-20 minutes detangling your hands from your loves hairdo, softly bringing you mouth to her ear, the smell of mousse and hair spray filling your nostrils, and whispering \"Honey, remember two weeks ago when you let me use my tongue for a couple of seconds as we kissed? Well, it got me pretty randy. I was thinking that we should push the envelope a bit. In the hope that we were to perform some light petting, MAY I touch your breast - over the bra of course my love.\"

You had me worried there for a minute.

Now listening to: Dwight Yoakam\'s \"This Time\", but, as it comes to a close, wondering if I should throw in The Doors\' \"The Doors\" or Sarah McLachlan\'s \"Fumbling Towards Ecstasy\"

[Sacogoo]

tallmacky writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I bid a due farewell my dear friends, do not dream of another beautiful day, expect it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Nice synopsis by Drakken on his visit to the stables and the nunnery.

That\'s seriously messed up. Seriously. That makes Elana\'s fat chicks look downright savory by comparison.

I think we need to get you into a nice little book club like Ripa Reads or something. Just go ahead and burn your Drakken anthology.

[Kari]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
tallmacky writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I bid a due farewell my dear friends, do not dream of another beautiful day, expect it.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Nice synopsis by Drakken on his visit to the stables and the nunnery.

That\'s seriously messed up. Seriously. That makes Elana\'s fat chicks look downright savory by comparison.

I think we need to get you into a nice little book club like Ripa Reads or something. Just go ahead and burn your Drakken anthology.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

How about some nice, healthy Victorian porn, like \"The Pearl?\"

[tallmacky]

Sacogoo sad eh? Some people are ahead of their time. This is not a rarity. A lot Drakken\'s work is studied in colleges and can be found online.

Maybe he was a little \"out of it\" but how many times are geniuses known up front at the beginning

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Brian]

tallmacky,

That is one nasty story! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I loved it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I don\'t know what the nice girls will think about it though. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

What do you think of Drakken\'s story, lovely ladies of the forum? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I\'d be really interested in what the thread starter, of this thread, thinks about Drakken. How about it WT? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Brian

[Sacogoo]

tallmacky writes:
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Sacogoo sad eh? Some people are ahead of their time.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yeah, I\'m sure that the academy of science has been real appreciative of his descriptive efforts to advance the field of animal husbandry.

(Actually, I\'ve found your Drakken excerpts rather amusing. I just think he went a tad bit overboard with this one.)

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
A lot Drakken\'s work is studied in colleges...

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Didn\'t I remember hearing about a college that offered a course in examining the collected works of Keneau Reaves? (And this was before the Matrix.)

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
and can be found online.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Oh, yeah, there\'s a real claim of legitimacy for his talents.

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Maybe he was a little \"out of it\" but how many times are geniuses known up front at the beginning

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

My favorite is Herman Melville. Died completely broke and destitute, and what has become widely recognized as the greatest American novel ever, Moby Dick, didn\'t begin to sell until 40 to 50 years after his death. Poe? Died in a gutter. Hawthorne? Flat busted when he kicked the bucket. Emily Dickenson? Threw herself in a river before anybody even knew she wrote poetry. John Kennedy Toole? Posthumonously awarded the Pulitzer Prize after he ventilated himself.

[Elana]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
What do you think of Drakken\'s story, lovely ladies of the forum? I\'d be really interested in what the thread starter, of this thread, thinks about Drakken. How about it WT?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Drakken...what a man.
One thing I never really understood about Drakken was, did he prefer to be with a shy, nice girl or a trashy girl?
I don\'t think this question has ever been asked on this forum. We should ponder it. Do men prefer shy girls, or trashy girls?