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  1. #1
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    Default Androstadienol...

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    I can\'t seem to find

    much about it on the web (other than an article in an another post alleging that androstadienol and A-1 convert to

    -none and -nol). Does anyone know anything about it? What it does? If it\'s available?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...



    Read this or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    MM

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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


    Read this or search for androstadienone instead of androstadienol

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

    MM

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Why

    would you do that if you are looking for info on androstadienol??

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

    p.s. I am not sure if it even exists..

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Androstadienol conversion is not very relevant in this forum since to my knowledge you can\'t buy it, if it

    exists. So I asumed it might be a typo.

    MM

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    There are hundreds of

    androstadienols, please specify.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Firstly, I did in fact

    mean androstadieNOL.

    Secondly, I\'m totally ignorant as to the number and variety of existing androstadienols,

    as I have no background in chemistry. That said, if it weren\'t for the ignorant, this forum would serve little or

    no purpose.

    So below is the abstract in which I encountered the term androstadienol. I realize it\'s not for

    sale anywhere, but surely a little intellectual curiosity is nothing to be ashamed of. So, really, I\'m just

    wondering if anyone knows what it\'s purported to do (assuming it\'s purported to do

    anything).

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?holding=npg&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp

    ;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=8142319&amp;dopt=Abstract

  7. #7
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Naja,

    That abstract

    lists 5,16,Androstadien-3beta-ol as one of the compounds found in sweat. I remember discussing this very article a

    couple of years back. Think I might have it bookmarked even. It even goes into conversion a bit.

    On

    www.steraloids.com it\'s code number is A0660-000 and it looks pretty

    cheap at $12 for 5 mg, $35 for 50mg, and $65 for 100mg. Whether you can actually get them to SHIP you some is

    another story though. And whether it\'s good for anything besides stinking up the place is still another.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    The Steraloids site is a great read though. Check it out. Looks

    like beta-Nol is there too, for what it\'s worth.

    Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    that is beta nol

  9. #9
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Jones,

    Bear with

    me. I don\'t have a degree in chemistry, but I do have a question I feel you can answer. However, I may not be

    able to understand the answer unless you can put it in layman\'s terms, but I\'m going to give it a shot

    anyway.

    If what that abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to

    as beta nol, what then is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in

    much lower quantities in sweat than what they call Androstadienol?

    Oscar

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    \"If what that

    abstract refers to as Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then

    is the 5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities

    in sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"

    Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,



    and


    5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'


    Does that answer your q?

  11. #11
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Androstadienol:-nol::A1:-none

    Theoretically, you would want to combine -dienol and -nol to get a more holistic

    effect, and -dienol would convert to -nol.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Not in this decade

    though

  13. #13
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    \"If what that abstract refers to as

    Androstadienol (5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol) is what WE would refer to as beta nol, what then is the

    5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol (that they call \"3 beta-Androstenol\") that occurs in much lower quantities in

    sweat than what they call Androstadienol? \"

    Yes, that 5,16,-Androstadien-3beta-ol is beta nol,



    and


    5alpha-Androst-16-en-3beta-ol is what we call just \'nol\'


    Does that answer

    your q?


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
    That indeed answers the question, Mr. Jones, but

    unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I

    believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol. What was that unhelpful

    \'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via the normal pathways from

    pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?

    But if you understand it while we do

    not, please trace your understanding of the pathways for us, starting with cholesterol, so we can understand how

    your version of the chemistry differs. That would be helpful to others.

    Here is a relevant study from the

    Journal of Steroid Biochemistry that portrays the conversion pathway to be as I said it

    was:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uid s=11457660

    &amp;dopt=Abstract


    Here is an excerpt:

    </font><blockquote><font

    class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    We wanted to determine the precise biosynthetic pathway of androstenol and

    other closely related steroids. Using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably express 3

    beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have shown that

    these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into androstenol. We thus

    provided evidence that androstenol, the ligand for CAR and PXR, is produced by the biosynthetic pathway of sex

    steroids.


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Here is another relevant Journal of Steroid

    Biochemistry article for good

    measure.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uid s=82409

    78&amp;dopt=Abstract

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    That indeed answers

    the question, Mr. Jones, but unfortunately, incorrectly on both counts. What we here call -nol is in fact: 5

    alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol. I believe Oscar is instead correct, regarding the chemical referred to as beta-nol.

    What was that unhelpful \'decade\' comment about? As far as I know, -dienol is indeed a precursor to -nol, via

    the normal pathways from pregnenolone; just as -dienone is for -none. How is this not correct?


    5

    alpha-Androst-16-en-3-alpha-ol and
    5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3-beta-ol are isomers and are virtually the

    same molecule. That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO activity in the VNO.

    The difference is a

    109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too

    structurally related.

    Check Figure 2 ;

    http://www.naturalattraction.com/NEW/s/6.html
    Its

    black and white

    The dienol is the beta-nol; you can see its structure in the erox paper.


    Regarding

    your statement about conversion, in order for 5-ene to get to the the fully reduced form, you would need appreciable

    amounts of 5-4 isomerase, and 5 alpha reductase.

    You are correct about the synthesis, but most enzymes are

    type specific as to which way the got (ox or redux), and we all know that 54 isomerase and 5AR do not exist in

    appreciable amounts on the skin.


    Of course, dienes are in equilibrium with there unsaturated

    counterparts, but of course its like 1 to a trillion.

    The purpose of statement was simply to inform people

    that worrying about conversion is not needed, and will only complicate an already complicated

    idea.


    5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol = beta nol -- If your unconvinced read the paper that published its

    activity, by erox



    also, \"using transformed human embryonic kidney (HEK-293) cells that stably

    express 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, 5 alpha-reductase and 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, we have

    shown that these enzymes are able to efficiently transform the precursor 5,16-androstadien-3 beta-ol into

    androstenol.\"

    The kidney is not part of the integumentary system, thus we are not concerned about topical

    use of pheromones based on this study.

  15. #15
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Hemmmm! Hawwwww!

    Hemmmmmmmm! Hhaaaaaaaaawwww! Gobbbbelty Goook! Gobbelty gobbelty gobbelty! How\'s that for English? Lets see,

    different is different, you\'re obscuring with technical...some of comments are irrelevant, skin conversions are

    more complex with aerobic bacteria, you contradicted yourself again, we don\'t know how a vs. b activate the VNO,

    -nol conversion starts at 20 min (heavy near apocrine...), the diagram doesn\'t show that, and...Oh, never mind. I

    need some oxycodone, or is it oxycontin? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Humility school is not

    a river in Egypt [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

  16. #16
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...



    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    That said, the latter was shown to have almost NO

    activity in the VNO.

    The difference is a 109 degree roation of that 3 hydroxy group. They would have the same

    value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.

    <hr /></blockquote><font

    class=\"post\">

    Isn\'t that a slight contradiction?

    Jones, I know you a clever, but please dont write

    speculating outside of your field (the VNO) right next to statements about chemistry, it\'s very confusing.

    Doc

    smell is right, conversions in this case are not as simple as your understanding of how they work. On the skin most

    of the conversions are by bacterial flora, which is a whole new mess of squirrels

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    \"They would have

    the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related. \"

    I meant

    \"They \'should\' have

    the same value in the VNO/membrane, they are too structurally related.\"

    I standby that statement. The

    experiment showed too large a difference.

    And who puts pheromones on there skin? Your clothes are right there.

    The bacteria/enzyme conversion issue can easily be bypassed.

  18. #18
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Listen to what I

    meant, not what I say! I know I am what are you? Mommmm! Sissie\'s touching me! Make her

    stop!

    Hahahaaaahahaahaahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Hehehe...

    OK, now that that\'s out of my system, the VNO

    may well have zilch to do with the pheromonal effect of -nol, which is anyway obviously a smokescreen issue. That

    180 rotate will radically change the vibration of the molecule, (as well as changing the key structure), which in

    olfaction appears to be important. Pheromax has a study showing a difference in effect.

    Yeah! Who puts pheromones

    on their skin anyway? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Boobie boobie boobie

    boo boo!

    Even if I am WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAA!

    That is fun to say! Try it folks, come on, real loud,

    \"WWWRRRRROONNNNGGGGGGG! -GAAA!\"

    Heee Hawwww hHeee HawWWW! Arff! Arff! Arf!

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Dr. SmellDiz, you hellafunkin like a telefunken! You be

    throwin\' dooooownnnn, money! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I was pizzed in da picture

    but now I gots ta smile. Props!


    Holmes

  20. #20
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    A little shout

    out to Holmes!

  21. #21
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Androstadienol...

    Yeeea, no doubt,

    Docta. Word \'em up!

    Oh, wait: nanny-nanny boo-boo! (My bickering quota for today.)

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    We out.


    Holmes

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