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  1. #1
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    Default detailed newbie question

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    Okay, here\'s the deal. I realize this is Yet Another Newbie Question, so I\'ll try to pack in as much information as possible to make it easy on the experts.

    I\'m a 24 year old male and just started attending a major university. I was out of school for a while working in the private sector, but decided to go back when the economy got bad. I\'m about 5\'8”, so not tall by any means, but not really short either. I\'m slender, not musclar, not cut or toned either since I haven\'t been exercising, but I\'m not super-skinny any more, having gained weight over the past year (a good portion of it making a little tummy, to my dismayed amusement, heh). Lookswise, I\'d say I\'m about average, though I\'ve been told I have captivating eyes. Some women are attracted to me, so I don\'t believe I\'m ugly or anything like that. I\'m suspicious that my testosterone might be on the low end of normal since I\'m not very hairy, not aggressive, don\'t have a pronounced jaw, seem to have a lower sex drive than a number of my male friends (sorry, no self-gratification six times a day..).

    Behaviorally, I\'m not in the slightest bit alpha, I\'m conflict-avoidant, don\'t like competition, and most alphas really annoy me, though there is a small subset which I can bond with - two of my best friends are definite alphas. In general, I don\'t like men and prefer the company of women, part of this is probably because I\'m straight and they interest me more, part of it is because I find that how most men are socialized in American society is distasteful. I have anxiety and mood stability issues which are currently fair to well controlled with medication. Some of my anxiety centers around women; basically, for me, it\'s getting over the initial hump that\'s the hardest. Try as I might, I\'m not really a risk taker, and although I\'ve gotten much better at it, I still see putting myself on the line to be a risk, mainly because I\'m not good with rejection or blowing off when I make an ass of myself as everyone does now and then. Once I achieve a comfort level around them, I\'m fine, unless I really really really like them in which case I get the common “IQ points bleeding out ears” thing going on.

    I also am not big on approach behavior in general, but I\'ve been practicing starting conversations, talking to random people, and trying things out socially with women that I\'m not terribly interested in since they\'re “safe” to make mistakes with. That may sound bad, but hey, you gotta start somewhere. Also, I come up with alternate ways to break the ice, by creating online communities for my classes and so on. Various personality tests put me close to the middle in terms of introversion vs. extroversion. I have distinct characteristics of both, but have moved a bit towards the introverted side since my teens, which is fine with me.. I\'m not looking to become an extrovert.

    I haven\'t had too much experience with women, mainly due to fear of rejection, getting into the “friend zone”, failing to initiate, failing to portray myself as a sexual being (I\'ve been described in the past as “androgynous” .. um, no), and so forth. I feel that it\'s a combination of bad luck, poor socialization, and being somewhat subpar physically - average to decent looks but slim build, something not that many women appreciate - that\'s caused me problems. The luck and the looks to some extent I must accept. The socialization I\'ve been working on, feeling like I\'m getting better and better in a number of ways, and now I\'ve gone from small town living and not leaving the beaten path between home and work to being in the midst of a student body of around 25,000. So, it feels like with the right chain of events, I could be on the edge of a vast improvement in my social and intimate lives.

    My goals are to meet lots of people and make friends and acquaintances, building a solid social network that I can rely on. Due to my personality type, I\'ll only ever have a few very close friends at a time, and that\'s fine with me, but I need to establish a network here. My other major goal is to find a woman. Surprised? Anyway, while I wouldn\'t turn up my nose at one night stands, I found out in a recent relationship that having sex with people I don\'t know all that well sometimes doesn\'t work too well for me. Besides, like I said if I got a “hit” I\'d most likely pursue it even if it was clear from the start it wasn\'t serious, but what I\'m really looking for is a committed relationship with somebody who likes me for who I am, who\'s attractive and reasonably compatible in terms of intelligence, personality, and sexuality. So, friends first (hopefully with some sexual tension! heh), then lovers, etc.

    My “target” population is educated, intelligent women from around 20-28. Again, I\'d get involved with an 18 year old if she were great, but historically they\'ve tended to be trouble. :-P

    So, leaving my skepticism aside for a moment (I\'ll get to it later), basically what I\'m looking for is something that can nudge interactions towards openness, warmth, friendliness, comfort, for those I\'m interacting with and also maybe me, though I have meds for that. :-P Also, a subtle push towards attraction would be great, to a point, but I couldn\'t live up to alpha male expectations nor would I want to - yes, I realize that\'s not exactly how pheromones are supposed to work, e.g. even if I soak myself in -none I\'m probably not going to be seen as an alpha, but you get the idea. So I\'d like a nudge towards easily breaking the ice, and for everyone (including me) to feel relaxed, and a significant but not overbearing nudge towards potential attraction in women. I like to talk and listen, so things that promote conversation would work nicely for me (and increase the possible influence of pheromones since I tend to get into long conversations). Clubs and bars generally aren\'t my scene, and I\'m usually my best when interacting in small groups or one on one.

    I am quite skeptical about pheromones, just like any other similar thing you see sold on the net and in the back of magazines, and I think there\'s a lot of irresponsible marketing and snake oil sales going on. There\'s also a lack of research, unless there\'s a lot that I\'m somehow missing. The Cutler studies* are certainly interesting, but they haven\'t been repeated and the sample size is uncomfortably small. The subjective nature of “results”, the lack of rigorous testing, the difficulty of verifying whether the product one is getting is real, the “too good to be true” claims, the obviously bogus testimonial from non-existant people on some sites which sell the same products I hear mentioned here, and the - for lack of a better word - semi-religious tone I see in posts and the tendency to ascribe all maner of abilities to microgram quantities of odorless inhaled substances - this is the same kind of dedication I see in people who are All About Herbs or Totally Into Homeopathic Medicine or Really Believe In Astrology, and makes me highly suspicious.

    On the other hand, just because there\'s currently a lack of strong evidence to support claims made about pheromones doesn\'t mean that all of the claims are false. While the amount of research which needs to be done is vast, there are small, tantalizing bits which show promise. There are anecdotes, which shouldn\'t be given much weight, but I\'ve read about the guy with the wacky hormone levels that had pigs following him around.

    Pheromones have been proven to exist in the mammal kingdom and in humans, and exert some subtle influences. From the standpoint of evolutionary psychology, pheromones also make sense, though just because something makes sense doesn\'t mean it will evolve. But, for example if we go with the overly simplistic model of healthy, succesful male = more testosterone = more secreted steroids vs. stressed or unhealthy male = lower testosterone, more cortisol = less or different secreted steroids, and the female being able to detect this, that would be advantageous for the female\'s genes.

    Do I believe all the hype? No, certainly not. Do I think it at least plausible that certain airbone chemicals secreted by humans can subtly affect the mood of other humans? Yes. Do I consider it likely? Possibly. Proven? Not to my satisfaction.

    However, if you recall the “nudges” I was talking about before, well, not being a particularly outstanding guy, I sort of view social success as a series of nudges. Small things add up. Too many nudges in the wrong direction, and things don\'t work. A few nudges in the right direction can vastly increase success. When you\'re not outstanding, it\'s the small things that count.

    My opinion after digging around on the net is that IF these products do anything at all, it\'s probably in the form of nudges, not ridiculous “chick magnet” type crap. Despite my skepticism and natural inclination towards disbelief, I figure I might give them a try, given the available evidence. This is sort of a weird position to be in for somebody who prides themself on keeping a critical mind, and not buying into marketing hype, but I guess my reasoning is that at this point in my life, if the pheromones DO work, the payoff could be immense. If not, I\'ve lost a few bucks and get to feel like a dumbass for a while, which is a minor loss compared to the potential gain.

    Anyway, I\'m extremely busy and without further evidence, I\'m not interested in spending a ton of money buying 10 different products, nor am I interested in creating a pheromone chemistry set and spending a lot of time creating various potions, despite the fact that I derived a sick pleasure from organic chemistry in high school. Given the large amount of information I\'ve provided, I\'d greatly appreciate it if you, the experts, could recommend what will work best for me, preferably no more than two products (ideally one) which won\'t break the bank. If I notice tangible results, I\'ll be far more interested in continuing my experimentation.

    I don\'t wear cologne often, so a product I could apply without it would also be great. When I do wear it, it\'s Tuscany.

    The last thing I should mention is that one of the women I\'m currently most interested in is somebody I see first thing in the morning on the days that I see her, usually about an hour after getting out of the shower.. I\'ve seen some threads on here about lead time and whatnot, so that\'s also a factor.

    From my basic research I was looking at AE. That\'s about it.

    I\'ll make a little addition that I would be interested in something to subtly kick up sexual attraction or tension a notch in situations where it already exists. If this product is the same as the primary one I\'m looking for (the ideal product that I just gave you all the data to recommend to me), so much the better.

    Thanks in advance for reading my mini-novel and any advice you may have.

    * re: Cutler and the Athena Institute: I\'d be interested in hearing opinions on the Athena products. When I e-mailed some questions, they were quite helpful right up until the point where I asked about patents, at which point the reply got downright prickly and I was referred to their lawyer! My reason of course for searching for patents on the Athena products was to see if they contain androstenone et al, which can be more cheaply obtained elsewhere.

  2. #2
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Skeptic,

    Outstanding post. The various points in your \"Nudge Theory\" are very well-taken and appreciated. I\'m glad to see someone else express it all that way.

    AE/m might be a cost-effective solution if it works for you (hasn\'t done much for me--yet.) PI/m and SOE (gel) worked very well for me when I used that combo. Another good combo (as many others have mentioned) is NPA/m and WAGG (with or without NPA/w.) Just some thoughts...

    Having said all this, hopefully one of the experts will chime in any minute now...[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])


    Holmes

  3. #3
    Phero Enthusiast Sacogoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    skeptic writes:
    <<Okay, here\'s the deal. I realize this is Yet Another Newbie Question, so I\'ll try to pack in as much information...>>

    Sweet baby Jesus! We\'re going to have to help you tone down that analytical side before you\'re unleashed on the coeds at your school dripping in mones.

    As far as the pheromones go, it\'s a complete crap shoot. You are just going to have to work through the process by trial and error, and find what works for you. (Much to your chargrin and Bruce\'s delight as this stuff ain\'t cheap.) Everybody\'s personal chemistry is different, and the different \'mone products are going to work differently on every single person. As an example, here are the \'mones that I\'m currently using and the effect that they have had on my wife:

    SOE Gel Pack – conservatively applied (one pack lasts approximately six days): physically affectionate/sexually stimulated

    NPA – Mixed with various colognes (Allure, Platinum Egoiste, Aqua di Gio) in ratios of 3:1, 4:1, 5:1, 6:1, 7:1: distant, aggressive, \"nasty\" behavior

    PPA – three drops (two to neck, one to chest): touching, caressing

    Andro 4.2 – straight spray: don’t touch me or I will start cutting off body parts; mixed with cologne at 6:1 ratio: mentally attentive, but not physically

    AE – three drops (two to neck, one to chest): no noticeable effects, either positive or negative

    These reactions are, in certain cases, completely opposite of what other individuals have experienced.

    Looking at your situation, I would recommend the following products:

    1. The Beginners Special
    - Gets you The Edge spray, which is easier to apply and appropriately cover than it\'s cousin, NPA, as well as an atomizer, some Primal Oil and a Scent of Eros gel pack for sampling.

    2. Alter Ego
    - A good smelling and potent blend of the three main \'mones. While it has had no effect for me, there have been too many positive reactions posted by others not to give it a try.

    3. PPA
    - Like AE, it\'s a premixed topical solution that is potent and smells good.

    While you\'re looking at around a hundred bones for the three, it\'s giving you a great mix of three completely different products that gives you a very good chance to find the one that works for you in the appropriate ratios.

    However, just as an information point, while I could also be categorized as a shy person, I picked up a lot (and I mean A LOT) of girls/women over the years simply by getting drunk and getting over my initial inhibitions. (Suprisingly, the closing line of \"I would really like to take you back to my place and f#$%.\" worked extremely well more often than not. Sure, I ended up wearing a few drinks, but the possibility of sex with the winner of that nights\' bikini contest was worth the risk. :-) (I\'m only using pheromones to calm a pissed off spouse, not to pick up other women.)

    Positive attitude, slightly aggressive sexual energy, loosening of the inhibitions, nice clothes and mones, and you\'ve got yourself a winner.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />


    As far as the pheromones go, it\'s a complete crap shoot. You are just going to have to work through the process by trial and error, and find what works for you. (Much to your chargrin and Bruce\'s delight as this stuff ain\'t cheap.) Everybody\'s personal chemistry is different, and the different \'mone products are going to work differently on every single person. As an example, here are the \'mones that I\'m currently using and the effect that they have had on my wife:



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Most of us think experimenting is half the fun. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    skeptic,

    Finding patents is fairly easy.
    Finding the right pheromone can be hard.

    All available U.S. patents can be found here:

    http://www.uspto.gov/

    Here\'s one I\'ve bookmarked:

    Patent Link

    And to find others that might have something to do with the Athena products you can do a search by \"inventor name\" for Cutler, Winnifred B.
    ___________________________

    For an \"unscented\" additive to use with Tuscany I would recommend either NPA or AFA.
    For a stand-alone, I\'d say AE.
    Most economical? Buy NPA and spike your cologne. Four or five parts cologne to one part NPA.

    Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


  6. #6
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Wow, someone wrote more than me! Amazing! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I\'m testing out TE right now that came with my Newbie pack. I have the same stats as you (not very hairy or big, nice guy who likes talking to girls, etc.), so let me know if you get something that works. My experience last night had people a little friendlier to me than usual when using a few drops of TE. Still working on finding something to get the DIHL from women. I hope someone else can help you more.

    PS:

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    \"I would really like to take you back to my place and f#$%.\"

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    This is quite possibly the ballsiest thing I\'ve ever heard.

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Thanks all for the replies and the PMs. Keep them coming. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I\'ll probably post a more detailed response later in the weekend.

    Quick question for now though.. when I\'m first experimenting, might it be wise to test effects where the stakes are a bit lower, in other words around women I\'m not so interested in or random women? Not that I think it\'s likely, but I wouldn\'t want to trigger everlasting hatred in the ones that I definitely AM interested in. heh

    And yes, I have been known to overanalyze things down to their component atoms.

  8. #8
    Phero Guru Sagacious1420's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    when I\'m first experimenting, might it be wise to test effects where the stakes are a bit lower, in other words around women I\'m not so interested in or random women?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Yes! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Hi skeptic,

    I\'ll have to say, yours is the most detailed profile that I\'ve read on this site. Very clearly written and easy to understand.

    Unfortunately, there are no clear answers to your questions.
    Since we are all different, what works on one, may not on another. When you do find a mone that works for you, you will find the same thing with your targets, a mone that works on one target, may not work on another.

    Because there are so many factors to consider, I will refrain from giving advice on any particular product. I can only tell you, that you will probably have to do some experimenting to determine which is right for you. There is no magic pill here, you will have to try different things to see what works well, and what doesn\'t. Few people have instant success. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Good Luck!

    Brian [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    ae/m doesn\'t do much for me when its by itself. I\'ve had better success with just a few drops of AFA and coolwater. I\'ve also had good luck with 2 drops of PI into my hair gel and then putting 1 drop mixed in with some lotion to get it spread out. The girls in art class kept looking my way and half kept playing with thier hair. In chemistry one girl that sat across the table was getting red and then started complaining to the teacher about being \"really hot\". I also noticed the hispanic women gave me long looks at lunch when i walked by them. PI seems to work very good for me and it as for most people. The biggest problem is the smell but i cover that with some fragrance oil like cool water or ck one. Good thing is if you don\'t think AE works for you, you could trade it in for something else

  11. #11
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Nice post skeptic, it was an interesting read.

    I liked what you said about nudges, quite an accurate description of how it works. There is no miracle, you still have to do some work yourself. The biggest nudge is on first impressions, but I\'m sure you will see others aswell.

    As for product, AE is good, as is TE.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    skeptic,
    I have a feeling Rogue Male could work for you.

    First of all it’s very basic: just one powerful pheromone with a strong sexual signal. No complicated formulas to wrack your skeptical brains over.
    If nothing else, it should get you noticed. (As a fellow 5’8” I can tell you that women’s radar tends to be set at 6’, and nothing overcomes this as well as Androstenone.)
    I also think it could add a sort of “bad boy” edge to your androgyny. (It probably wouldn’t hurt to grow some facial hair and cultivate a somewhat ruffled/just-crawled-out-of-some-girl’s bed look.)
    Another plus is that your anxiety might help you determine the proper dosage — which is the biggest challenge when working with Androstenone. The thing I’ve noticed is that something like 95% of the people I run into cary some form of anxiety in their bodies. (Given the state of the world, you’ve got to be crazy NOT to get a bit anxious from time to time.) It’s just that introverts tend to be more attuned to it, and less likely to vent it off on other people.
    Given this “attunement”, a perfect dosage should make you feel a bit stimulated and possibly more confident. An OD will probably make you feel a bit anxious or tense.

    If this doesn’t sound up your alley. SOE seems to be the most powerful product for loosening women up and stimulating conversation. In my experience it also makes women very trusting and compliant. Best of all it seems to erase their personal space, and kino works wonders when you wear the stuff. I’ve also given it my vote as best smelling love-scent product.
    The only reason it’s not my first choice for you, is that you have to be somewhat extroverted to get the best results.

    Good luck!

  13. #13
    Phero Pharaoh a.k.a.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    PS For maximum results, get rid of that tummy — or at least wear baggy shirts. Older women might think it’s cute, but girls your age tend to get turned off.

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Thanks for the continuing posts and suggestions. It does seem that everyone is suggesting different things, heh. So I have some questions.

    First, regarding overdosing. Is something like SOE fairly overdose-proof? I guess what I\'m asking is which products are the LEAST likely to cause a negative reaction, even if they don\'t cause a positive reaction? For example, if that\'s the case with SOE, I could start with that and then start applying small amounts of an androstenone product as needed.

    Second, is AE scented and is there an unscented version? What is the ratio of the different pheromones in AE? I greatly prefer unscented products whereever possible, which I should have made more clear in my first post. I use unscented deodorant and so on. I prefer my cologne (when I wear it) to the \'cheap smells\' of various products and I\'m picky about how I smell, so... yeah. Unscented when possible, even if I have to use my cologne as cover due to its natural smell.

    A couple clarifications, too. While I do have anxiety issues and described myself as a bit towards the introverted side... the anxiety can be almost totally eliminated with judicious use of meds, so it\'s not a major issue unless I\'m trying to limit my use of them and don\'t take enough and get into a situation, but that\'s pretty rare. For you folks that were talking in another thread about kava kava and valerian and whatnot.. eh, they sort of took the edge off for me, but nothing and I mean NOTHING works like valium, xanax and their assorted chemical siblings. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Just use responsibly.

    As for the introversion, I really am close to the middle and display characteristics of both.. if the mood and situation is right, I can talk and talk and stay out all night (though I don\'t like clubs for other reasons). If the atmosphere is less relaxed and it seems like I\'d be on the spot, then I don\'t approach as much. And regardless, I need downtime after interacting a lot like introverts do. So I\'m a hybrid.

    I have a bit of facial hair, heh. At least where it will grow (another reason why I\'m suspicious of my testosterone, but due to other reasons I am going to be requesting a full endocrine workup as soon as my health insurance kicks in, so I will have an answer on that). Oh, and mutton chops too, which aren\'t trendy any more but I think they look good on me, and some girls do as well. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I\'ve been messing around with my hair to go for a more messy but good look with moderate success.. I had long hair for years and years so finding the right length to do what I want with it is difficult.

    As for my buddha belly.. well, it\'s not as big as it was, heh. That\'s related to medication. I need to start regular exercise for a whole variety of reasons including women, but it\'s really really hard for me to keep on a program for more than a few weeks without outside motivation, so I need to find myself a partner.

    Finally, I wasn\'t completely forthcoming with my original post.. I definitely have my eye on one particular woman, and though it seems far away, the end of the semester isn\'t THAT far away, and who knows where she\'ll be after that. So I\'m looking to start fairly quickly here, probably with a \"low-risk\" product such as what I understand SOE might be.

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    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Yes SOE is mostly over-dose proof, you have to be more converned with scent OD than the mones. If you are getting SOE, I would recommend TE (unscented) as a product that compliments it nicely.

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    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    You probably don\'t want to spend this much, but there\'s also P10. Very concentrated (esp. in -none)...with careful use, should transform you into a walking ball-clanker.

    Don\'t know if anyone\'s used SOE gel with P10...that might be interesting.

    There are two versions of AE. The \"old\" version is a lot milder and the fragrance dies out fairly quickly. Far easier to cover up.

    Holmes

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    skeptic writes:
    &lt;&lt;I definitely have my eye on one particular woman, and though it seems far away, the end of the semester isn\'t THAT far away, and who knows where she\'ll be after that. So I\'m looking to start fairly quickly here, probably with a \"low-risk\" product such as what I understand SOE might be.&gt;&gt;

    I know that this might sound somewhat novel and possibly facetious, but have you thought about just asking her out right now LBP? (Life Before Pheromones.)

    What\'s the worst that could happen? If she says no, then your in the same boat that you are paddling in right now, right? Be a little persistent, and maybe, just maybe, once you get the pheromones slathered on, she won\'t be able to resist you any more. (And you might find out that if you actually ask her out, and she actually says yes, and subsequently finds you charming in a quirky, neurotic kind of way, and falls in love with you, and ends up performing things to your body that only have happened in Thai massage/opium palors, and eventually bears you 13 children.)

    The thing is, it ain\'t going to happen if you don\'t try. (And even with the pheromones, it\'s not likely that she\'s going to drop to her knees and beg you for your undying love in the middle of your Western Civilization class. (Although, it may actually happen like that. I remember my sophomore year when this girl in my sociology class (who I didn\'t even know was in the class) came up to me one day after class and asked me out. Ended up one of the coolest and wildest women I have ever known. Boderline S&amp;M fetish that had a rich dad who bought her a 911 for her college car. However, I ended up screwing that one up when she found a couple of wine glasses in the back of my car, and one had lipstick on it (she didn\'t wear makeup).)

    Anyway, you\'re going to have to break the ice at sometime, and sooner is better than later. Just go ask her out for a cocktail or coffee and see where it goes. (Not to mince words, but stop being a wussy and get in the freaking game!)

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I know that this might sound somewhat novel and possibly facetious, but have you thought about just asking her out right now LBP? (Life Before Pheromones.)


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Trust me, I\'ve thought about it, but there are very valid reasons that it will have to wait a while, which aren\'t changing.

    As for my quirks, I guess I haven\'t given the impression too well since I\'m being honest about myself here, but I\'m actually pretty good at appearing normal until people get to know me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    Sadhu
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Boderline S&amp;M fetish that had a rich dad who bought her a 911 for her college car.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
    May I ask, what´s a 911 car? You don´t mean that she drove around in an ambulance or police car NO? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  20. #20
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    a Porsche 911 I guess

    http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/911/default.htm

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  21. #21
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    No, a 911 car would be an ambulance.


    Holmes

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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes SOE is mostly over-dose proof, you have to be more converned with scent OD than the mones. If you are getting SOE, I would recommend TE (unscented) as a product that compliments it nicely.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Okay, I think I\'m beginning to formulate a plan. Let me know if I\'ve got this right, and then I have a few questions.

    SOE is a ratio of 4:1 androstenol to androsterone, correct? And -nol and -rone are much less likely to cause negative reactions than -none?

    If that\'s the case I may like to start with something like SOE and then \"spike\" it as needed with modest amounts of androstenone. So, questions.

    What does SOE smell like? Is there an SOE \"clone\" that\'s unscented? If not, does the SOE fragrance fade or blend well with cologne?

    What\'s the best unscented -none, NOT super ultra concentrated, in a form that\'s easy to apply? I am sort of wary of TE because the formula is secret or whatever. I definitely don\'t want to load myself up with -none. I think being able to control the amount would be best.

    Oh, and finally, what\'s the content and ratio of the pheromones in WAGG?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    What\'s the best unscented -none, NOT super ultra concentrated, in a form that\'s easy to apply? I am sort of wary of TE because the formula is secret or whatever. I definitely don\'t want to load myself up with -none. I think being able to control the amount would be best.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    AFA, would be your best bet for an unscented none product. As far as the wagg goes, it is unknown what the contents of it is. If you want to know the contents of the products on this site click the \"Pheromone Reference Material\" link on the top of virtually every page on this forum. You need to do some research of your own. The info is here, if you take the time to look for it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Brian

  24. #24
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Yeah, I\'ve looked at the table multiple times comparing products. WAGG isn\'t listed.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Spooky, ain\'t it?

    S\'like it dun\'t exist!

    Steve

  26. #26
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Yes SOE is mostly over-dose proof, you have to be more converned with scent OD than the mones. If you are getting SOE, I would recommend TE (unscented) as a product that compliments it nicely.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Okay, I think I\'m beginning to formulate a plan. Let me know if I\'ve got this right, and then I have a few questions.

    SOE is a ratio of 4:1 androstenol to androsterone, correct? And -nol and -rone are much less likely to cause negative reactions than -none?

    If that\'s the case I may like to start with something like SOE and then \"spike\" it as needed with modest amounts of androstenone. So, questions.

    What does SOE smell like? Is there an SOE \"clone\" that\'s unscented? If not, does the SOE fragrance fade or blend well with cologne?

    What\'s the best unscented -none, NOT super ultra concentrated, in a form that\'s easy to apply? I am sort of wary of TE because the formula is secret or whatever. I definitely don\'t want to load myself up with -none. I think being able to control the amount would be best.

    Oh, and finally, what\'s the content and ratio of the pheromones in WAGG?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I basically gave you a combo that works and aswers your \"plan\" (SOE and TE), if you dont trust it I dont know what to say. If you read around TE is one the most popular products, why are you wary? It\'s the most usable -none product besides PPA (which isnt as good IMO because it doesnt have the secrets), and it\'s cheap!

    And dont be so worried about negative reactions, I can count the number of bad reactions on one hand from over a year of use.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    skeptic writes:
    &lt;&lt;What\'s the best unscented -none, NOT super ultra concentrated, in a form that\'s easy to apply?&gt;&gt;

    Andro 4.2. Spray bottle applicator that has a lot of \'none in the container (4.2 mg), but is diluted with 30 ml of alcohol. Easy to apply, and easy to control the application. Spreads the \'mone out over a larger area, making spot OD\'ing less likely. It also takes a cover scent well (easily masked).

    BTW - I just got my latest shipment and just put on my WAGG-N. Smells potent, but it seems to be covered well with a small application of Chanel\'s Allure Homme. (I know that you are hesitant to purchase anything that does not list specific \"ingredients\", but this might be the \'mone you are looking for. The beneficial \"buddy\" qualities of WAGG, with a little shot of the \"sex me up hard and fast\" \'none. I know that as I sit typing this, I\'m starting to get a real rush from the WAGG-N. Just got a \"chill\" that went from head to toe, goosebumps, and all I\'m thinking about right now is laying some serious pipe. (Holy [censored] Bruce! What the hell did you put in this stuff?! I was thinking about going out this afternoon, but I don\'t think I can trust myself. My wife better get her ass back here ASAP or I might not be able to hold out much longer! Yikes! I am freaking RANDY! Did you puree Austin Powers and pour him in this bottle or something?!)

  28. #28
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    Okay, I think I\'m going to try SOE gel + TE as my first purchase. Thanks everybody for all your suggestions and answers. I might end up diluting the TE so I can achieve finer dosage control of the -none, we\'ll see.

    I think at first, assuming that the calculator is on point, I\'ll probably start with 1/3 packet of SOE + 1 spray of TE.

    By the way, there are 30mL in a fluid oz, right?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    By the way, there are 30mL in a fluid oz, right?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    That is correct. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Brian

  30. #30
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: detailed newbie question

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Okay, I think I\'m going to try SOE gel + TE as my first purchase. Thanks everybody for all your suggestions and answers. I might end up diluting the TE so I can achieve finer dosage control of the -none, we\'ll see.

    I think at first, assuming that the calculator is on point, I\'ll probably start with 1/3 packet of SOE + 1 spray of TE.

    By the way, there are 30mL in a fluid oz, right?

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    You are right to want to dilute TE, I would be interested on what you find to be the optimal dilution/dosage for you.

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