Relationships & Dateing.

[Sprocket]

I’ve got a question was just curios is all. For starters I’m a 29-year-old male. I guess it’s more for the ladies here but guys can answer this as well. For the most part I don’t really have trouble-meeting woman, it’s just that mainly when I do I’m placed on a percentage. I’d say out of 100% I’m usually placed on the 80 - 95% of lets just be friends type of relationships and well that’s great and all but I really do need more of a closer relationship with a woman. So I guess what I’m asking is what am I doing wrong or what makes a woman decide on how far of a relationship there willing to go with someone and how can I change this percentage to something more then just having lots of woman friends, not to say theirs anything wrong with this situation but I really do need the closeness, intimacy that others have.

[Elana]

You need to give us more information about yourself. Are you always acting goofy? Are you the one that calls the woman 100% of the time? Do you ever act aloof, or are you always available 24/7 when a woman wants your attention? Give us more details....

[CJ01]

Well, let´s start with a simple Q : Is there a woman you´re particularly interested in already?

[proteus]

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I’ve got a question was just curios is all. For starters I’m a 29-year-old male. I guess it’s more for the ladies here but guys can answer this as well. For the most part I don’t really have trouble-meeting woman, it’s just that mainly when I do I’m placed on a percentage. I’d say out of 100% I’m usually placed on the 80 - 95% of lets just be friends type of relationships and well that’s great and all but I really do need more of a closer relationship with a woman. So I guess what I’m asking is what am I doing wrong or what makes a woman decide on how far of a relationship there willing to go with someone and how can I change this percentage to something more then just having lots of woman friends, not to say theirs anything wrong with this situation but I really do need the closeness, intimacy that others have.

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I was like you for a long time so I can relate. I read a lot of stuff on some of the seduction sites, on this site, and the thing that struck me most was that the guys who have relationships tend to be more willing to approach, aren\'t afraid to let a woman know that they are a sexual being, are willing to try and try again if they fail with one lady. So this is what I mainly worked on and the seduction sites and this site are great for that. And this stuff does work - I\'ve had a couple of flings since then, a gf, and then I recently began dating a great lady(well, I guess you could say she\'s my gf now since we have become intimate), who a couple of years ago I\'d have had no chance of being with simply because all too often I was \"too nice\", too afraid to make the moves I knew I had to make and say the things I needed too. But I also learnt you don\'t need to be an [censored], the proverbial \"jerk\" as this doesn\'t necessarily work either, especially if you want to meet a quality, intelligent woman. Most of the stuff I learnt at the seduction sites, and here, I just read, absorbed everything, found out what worked for me, what didn\'t work, found out what I was comfortable doing and did some of the things that did make me feel uncomfortable, and now I\'m at a point where honestly things just seem to \"click\" and the results speak for themselves. Oh, and of course the pheros help (y\'all should try NPA/w + WAGG - it has been gold for me!!). Anyway, long answer to a simple question but if you take the time it\'s worth it.

[DaVinciKittie]

Good post, Proteus.

A lot of what it comes down to is exactly what he said- you have to be confident and willing to approach. I think it\'s a misconception that the guys who always seem to have relationships (or at the very least, are always picking up different women) don\'t really have to try and don\'t get rejected. Of course they do, and they use those experiences to build upon so that they actually get better at it with every rejection. But you can\'t learn from your mistakes if you don\'t take the risk of making them. A lot of guys I know have problems getting stuck in the \"friend zone\", just like you\'re describing- I know b/c it\'s *me* they\'re firmly parked in the friend zone with. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I\'ll tell you this, though, if there are any that I AM attracted to, and he starts giving me signals (do some research on kino), he\'s not gonna stay in the friend zone for too long. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] There\'s no magic method, and no one can tell you exactly how to go about it- you just have to get out there, and trust your instincts on when to move forward. Now, if you have a specific woman that you\'re after, and want to tell us more about that, we can give you more specific advice... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Holmes]

Excellent thoughts Proteus and DVK.

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A lot of guys I know have problems getting stuck in the \"friend zone\", just like you\'re describing- I know b/c it\'s *me* they\'re firmly parked in the friend zone with. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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DVK, what are some of the reasons for this, as you see it? What is it about these guys that might keep \'em parked in the \"friend zone?\" (I\'m assuming it\'s hardly just a matter of not \"giving signals\"...)


Holmes

[Researcher]

just have the balls to carry yourself in a manner where you are there to f-ck her, not be her f-cken friend. A woman can\'t respect a a guy\'s manhood if they can\'t take her where she wants to go, can\'t take charge or take the lead. I am not saying to jump on top of your female friends all the time, but have the agenda that you are pursuing her sexually, and it will come across. If you don\'t set that tone in the beginning, you\'ll almost always be in that friends category.

Proteus said it is not about being a jerk. He is absolutely right. It is about confidence, particuraly in your \"right to breed with her\". Sometimes being a jerk can be an indication of that, because a man looking downon a woman it implies a man being higher on the social ladder, therefore being a step up for her. However, intelligent women won\'t go for a disrespectful man, just women lacking in confidence and with something to prove to themselves.

[akinu]

All girls will fall over you when you check your personal mail box. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[DaVinciKittie]

In some cases it *is* a matter of not giving signals. I\'m not the type of woman to wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak, so I play things pretty close to the vest. Even if I\'m really interested in a guy, I generally won\'t let him know beyond the typical \"attraction\" signals. If he doesn\'t respond to my initial signals (whether from lack of preceiving them AS signals or from disinterest), I generally make an effort to stop sending signals. It\'s almost as if I can turn off my attraction to him - it\'s a defense mechanism. If a guy isn\'t interested, he isn\'t interested- I\'m not going to push the issue.

Now, the reason I said all that is to give you an idea of how I do things. If I meet a guy and he doesn\'t seem interested in me for anything more intimate than friendship, friendship is what I\'ll give him. If he decides sometime down the road that he wants more, then he\'ll have to make the first move, or at least send me some signals. It\'s a whole lot easier, though, if he just makes it clear from the beginning that he\'s attracted. That way, there\'s no ambiguity about his level of interest and I feel more free to express myself. Plus, it just makes a girl feel good to know a man finds her attractive, even if she\'s not really interested in him. You asked why I think some guys always end up stuck as the friend. IMHO, it\'s b/c they\'re afraid to jeopardize their friendship (and therefore their opportunity to spend time with her) with the woman by showing attraction that she may not return, and the longer they wait, the harder it gets. Most women are able to have close friendships with men who have expressed attraction for them, even when their interest is only returned platonically.

To sum up, I think that guys who always find themselves in the friends zone need to re-examine their approach strategy. Do you compliment the woman when you first meet her (compliments do not have to be verbal- a touch here or there or even your continued interest can be a compliment)? Do you make it obvious (to her) that you\'re interested in her? Assuming she responds positively, do you take the initiative and ask to see her again? If you answered \"no\" or \"I don\'t know\" to any of those questions, then you know what you need to work on. Not all women are as careful as I am, especially given the general boldness represented by the women on this board [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img], but I think that many are, so you should probably take that into consideration next time you think a woman might not be interested in you. Give it a shot- you never know if you don\'t try. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Icarus]

Right on.

Although trying is the first step towards failing.. what\'s the worst that could happen?

Sure you could be plunged out of a burning plane into yet another burning plane (full of jobbing harmonica players with social problems) but that\'s so ridiculous I\'m suprised you even brought it up.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
Steve

[nonscents]

Wow, DVK! That was a great post.

[Holmes]

Yes, indeed. Outstanding, DVK. That\'s what I wanted to know. Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Holmes

[nonscents]

DVK wrote </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Do you compliment the woman when you first meet her (compliments do not have to be verbal- a touch here or there or even your continued interest can be a compliment)?

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What kind of kino do you like (expect) a guy to give you?

[Holmes]

Good question...

Holmes

[CptKipling]

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Right on.

Although trying is the first step towards failing.. what\'s the worst that could happen?

Sure you could be plunged out of a burning plane into yet another burning plane (full of jobbing harmonica players with social problems) but that\'s so ridiculous I\'m suprised you even brought it up.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
Steve

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The heat wave getting to you too huh? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[DaVinciKittie]

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What kind of kino do you like (expect) a guy to give you?

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I think it\'s sexy when a man lightly places his hand on the small of my back as we\'re walking, especially in a crowded area or where we\'re filing through a small space single file. Not so much that he\'s pushing me along, but a gentle reminder that he\'s watching out for me, and a statement to the people around that he\'s with me.

If he\'s heading off to the bar (or where ever- we\'re talking about when you first meet someone, so a bar or club seems appropriate), I like it when he lightly trails his hand/fingers across my upper arm as he passes. Sort of a \"be right back\" gesture, but more personal.

If we\'re dancing, one of the sexiest things a guy can do is to grip my hips (obviously I\'m talking about club dancing here). Not so much that it\'s painful and I don\'t want him to force me to move a certain way, but a nice strong presence that insures we move together. This is a good position to go into a dip (bend forward so that she has to bend backward, stand up straight again, and use your hands to guide her back up slowly from the dip) or to run your hands up and down her sides and around on her back. Nice light touches- not groping, but a definite hint of possession.

Once we\'re past the initial \"showing interest\" stage, I like finger play. You know, we\'re sitting/standing around, maybe taking a break or just talking, and he starts lightly running his fingertips over mine. It\'s almost like holding hands with your fingers intertwined, but your hands don\'t ever stop moving long enough to actually get to that point. *That* is sexy- it seriously turns me on, especially if he keeps the conversation going like there\'s nothing unusual about it. Keeps it casual yet personal, so it\'s not too threatening. If you\'re alone, this is a good opportunity to lead into a hand massage, which can lead to a foot massage, and, well, you can take it from there.

Just for basic \"showing interest\" type kino, though, I\'d say be sure to make contact with her often, but in casual and non-threatening ways. Keep the touch light and fleeting, keep the conversation going (don\'t do it during awkward silences unless you\'re sure she\'s into you and ready to move to the next level, of you could put her off entirely), make frequent eye contact and smile while doing it, find ways to insinuate that you find her attractive without saying it straight out, etc. If she responds well to these things, then keep it up but try to up the level of intimacy... longer and more frequent touches (maybe start to make the touches a little more personal. Don\'t feel her up, but definitely start to push the boundaries you\'ve already set), move further into her personal space (like move your head closer to hers when you\'re talking or dancing). If things are really going well, this is a good time to start working up to asking her out. That way, when the night is over and you\'re going your separate ways, you can more easily and comfortably ask for her number (and for god\'s sake, if you say you\'re going to call her, then CALL her. And do NOT wait a *WEEK*).

Anyway, I hope that\'s somewhat along the lines of what you were looking for. I can clarify if I didn\'t express something well enough. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Icarus]

Great post DVK!

That should help some people avoid the \"I don\'t touch\" syndrome, or its more sleazy alternative \"The Many Wandering Hands of The Desperate Love Machine\" or TMWHOTDLM for... short..

Yeh Kipling, the heatwave was frying my braincage - had to then go meet some people for lunch...

The REAL terror of global warming? - Ugly British people taking thier clothes of and getting all frisky. It\'s like a dwarf with learning difficulties: It\'s not big, and it\'s not clever.

Steve

Please note, that contrary to popular opinion, the British are not actually an ugly race - sure, a lot of them are really pale, and an increasing number are becoming overweight... Can\'t remember where I was going with that, but there\'s tons of really beautiful women over here. (And I suppose the guys are alright too.)

[CJ01]

Right on. I´ve seen a lot of pretty good looking brits oin my life. One small critique would be from my point of view, is that they could make an effort to make a bit more of themselves. They´re such LADS [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. But I like `em [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. They´re good fun.

[CJ01]

Icarus, how are they suppose to get tanned if they don´t take their kit off? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Icarus]

I would recommend some form of brown magic marker.

Anyways.. I\'m half-Scottish, so I get lumped under the banner heading of British - I\'m not slagging anyone off, just making some hilariously unfunny jokes.

The sun is out, so I\'m gonna go sit in the Gardens in the city centre!

Steve

Actually, on a day like today, you can be certain of seeing hundreds of really hot females wandering around Edinburgh in various states of undress. Yay! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Holmes]

Thank you DVK!! Great post--very helpful! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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if you say you\'re going to call her, then CALL her. And do NOT wait a *WEEK*).

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Yeah, I had a hard time buying that \"Doc Love\"-type idea of waiting for 9 days or whatever. Sounded like a load to me...


Holmes

[Holmes]

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\"The Many Wandering Hands of The Desperate Love Machine\" or TMWHOTDLM for... short..

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[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

LOL. Awesome...

Holmes

[Skyy]

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Thank you DVK!! Great post--very helpful! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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if you say you\'re going to call her, then CALL her. And do NOT wait a *WEEK*).

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Yeah, I had a hard time buying that \"Doc Love\"-type idea of waiting for 9 days or whatever. Sounded like a load to me...


Holmes




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Im not to familiar with Doc Love\'s methods, but he suggests you wait 9 days? Can you go into detail why he says this? Does it work? 9 days in quite a while...

[Researcher]

don\'t wait nine days on someone u only have known a couple hours! that time will be a distant memory, do two days.

if the person is ion your social circle and they know they will have to run into you again, 9 days could be good because it seems like your whole week was full and u got other things going on, and the anger of u not cqalling might wear off.......but i think not calling quickly is wrong to do no matter....why put someone in that suspense and that waiting game if you care about their feelngs?

[Icarus]

I\'ve never bought into that Doc Love style guff, but from what I can gather it has something to do with pretending that you are so busy, that this beautiful girl is only *one* more thing on your to do list.

Bad move.

I would probably recommend that you don\'t call straight after you\'ve just arrived back home after getting her number, then leave 100 messages throughout the night asking stuff about her, telling her stuff about yourself; punctuated every so often with some form of animal sounds (like a 30 second message of you gently mooing \"to serenade her\"... but definitly be sure to register your interest... (if you\'re interested in her, there\'s a good chance that many other men that don\'t follow some stupid 9 day rule thing may be interested too)

A rule of thumb to cut through this drivel I keep driveling?

Don\'t be too eager, don\'t be too aloof, just be yourself.

Is this starting to sound like an after-school-special?

(or a \'Wonder Years moment\' - \"Now I didn\'t know if Marie-Ann felt the same way as me, but we had had our fun... And I realised, that a little part of my childhood had died that day\" It seemed like that little git\'s childhood was withering from episode to episode. I wanted to see him as some college burnout in the not too distant future.. Jaded, cynical and dead-eyed; having lived a childhood that contained so many \'moral messages\' every week that he had lost his sense of right and wrong and become horribly disillusioned as to his rightful place in the world. But then, perhaps I\'m the jaded one) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Why doesn\'t Batman dance anymore....?

Steve

[Researcher]

funny stuff and great advice...u should be a writer if you are not

[DaVinciKittie]

Researcher said:
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i think not calling quickly is wrong to do no matter....why put someone in that suspense and that waiting game if you care about their feelngs?

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Exactly. Good man, Researcher. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Icarus said:
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I would probably recommend that you don\'t call straight after you\'ve just arrived back home after getting her number, then leave 100 messages throughout the night

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[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] LOL! Also very true. I think, from what I\'ve read, that the Doc Love advice of waiting such a long period of time, is based on the assumption that the woman will be more attracted to you, will find you more intriguing, and will have less \"control\" (DL is big on \"control\") in the resulting relationship if you don\'t show her obvious or eager interest. I don\'t agree with this. Not only is it rude and disrespectful, it\'s playing games with people\'s feelings, and while there may be a small percentage of women/girls that this might work on (I find it highly likely that these are women with low self-esteem, so this could seriously hurt them if you were to keep up this sort of behavior on a regular basis), I think the majority would lose respect for you and then you\'d have to work even harder. There was a lot of Doc Love support around here a while back (especially concerning the call-back time frame), so I\'m glad to see there are still some of you who kept your heads on straight (no pun intended). [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[DaVinciKittie]

Sprocket, did we answer your question, or do you need further/more specific advice?

[akinu]

Hahaha! I answered his question [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] too late [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I am sure he\'s on his way to his first \"hit\" .

However I cant deny that you have created a great masterpiece here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Holmes]

DVK wrote:

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I think, from what I\'ve read, that the Doc Love advice of waiting such a long period of time, is based on the assumption that the woman will be more attracted to you, will find you more intriguing, and will have less \"control\" (DL is big on \"control\") in the resulting relationship if you don\'t show her obvious or eager interest.

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Correct. That\'s \"Doc\" Love\'s schtick in a nutshell: the longer you wait to call (I think it was maybe 4 days minimum, no?), the bigger an enigma you will become, thereby intensifying the other person\'s curiosity and interest in you. Hmmmm.....again, not too sure I agree with that, either. Seems to me that there\'s some big-time generalizing going on there (i.e. \"ahhh, come on, they\'re all the same...\") [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] I wonder how many people this strategy\'s actually worked for...

Granted, not calling the minute you get home (so to speak) is probably wise, but that \"9-day\" deal just seems like it would leave room for a potentially positive situation to backfire on you.

Holmes