-Rone and It's Hormonal Effects

[Sexyredhead]

XVS, maybe you\'re already producing a fair amount of -rone in your personal signature, so you don\'t need any more? Just a thought. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sexyredhead]

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Sexyredhead, whats up sexy? I notice that the products with none that you didn\'t like were all womens products do you think that might have something to do with why you don\'t like them because theyre meant to target males?

On another note, i have been wearing SOE with a couple of davs on NPA to my classes and i have noticed that the girl i set next to coincidentally a redhead has really been digging me. She laughs at everything i do and talks to me like shes known me forever! She goes out of her way to make conversation with me during class. I set really close to her to make sure she gets a good whiff of the mones. Is there something about Redheads and SOE? I had on alot of the SOE with like 4 dabs of NPA. Its cool because i can tell that all the guys sitting arond look at me like they respect me and envy me because shes a hot redhead. Im so glad to be back in college there so many hot women i feel like a kid in candy land! lol

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Hey, Nate honey. Glad you\'re enjoying school. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I\'ve been \'preciating all the new eye candy myself. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

It\'s possible that I\'m not liking the -none because it\'s in women\'s products. On the other hand, those are the two products I like least of those I have, and they\'re also the only two with -none. Now things may change if you bring a guy around wearing -none, but to date, it just doesn\'t do anything good for me.

Of course she likes you! Redheads have excellent taste--just ask DVK. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I dunno if it\'s a redhead/SOE thing. IIRC, FTR wasn\'t that crazy about it.

[manchorito]

What product has the highest concentration of rone besides the Chemistry sets? I looked at the table and it seems to be the most neglected mone? How is that? There should be a product focused on rone. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Holmes]

AE maybe? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Just a guess...

Holmes

[Mtnjim]

P-10 from Stone??

[oscar]

manchorito,

Aside from the Chem-Set Reagent Grade A-Rone which has 1mg/mL of A-Rone, the products with the most Androsterone (in descending order) are:

AE/w where A-Rone amounts to 33.33% of the total phero content at .15mg/mL

AE/m where A-Rone amounts to 22.22% of the total phero content at .1mg/mL.

SOE where A-Rone amounts to 20% of the total phero content at .1mg/mL.

P10 where A-Rone amounts to 10% of the total phero content at .1mg/mL.

Note that AE/m, SOE, and P10(m&amp;w) all have the same overall A-Rone concentration (.1mg/mL), but are listed in descending order of the RATIO of Androsterone to the other pheros contained in those products.

I\'ve never fully understood the rationale behind the formula of AE/w. It\'s always confounded me why Stone would use so much Androsterone (relative to total phero content) in ANY product, and particularly why they would do so in a product designed for use by women.

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MysteriousMan]

SRH,

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Female perspective here.

I LOVE -rone. SOE gets me hot faster than any of the products I\'ve tried. -None does nothing for me, and -nol just makes me really friendly. SOE, with -nol and -rone, makes me horny AND very friendly.

So I guess you could call that a result using straight -rone. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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How (to be more precise: how long) did you test -none? The none response takes 15 minutes and even the secret ingrediences of TE/NPA are said to take several minutes to take effect.

-rone is linked to the adrenal response which is very fast and explains your experience.

MM

[Sexyredhead]

I\'ve worn it during the day--all day, I\'ve worn it at night for hours at a time. I\'ve had it since January. No matter when I wear it or how much, it does nothing for me. I get responses from guys, but it does nothing sexual for me. Not a thing--except that I may get irritated (no matter what time of the month) and I am uncomfortable because IT STINKS, no matter how small the app and where.

I\'m still waiting to see if any of the women here try the EE and if they can smell the -none. The reactions I get from guys when I wear it would be much easier to respond to if I didn\'t think I STANK every time I got a hit with it.

SOE can keep me happy and horny all day. It\'s different from the -nol reaction I have, because I often wear PIw or lavender SPMO by themselves. So the -rone\'s effect isn\'t just immediate--it\'s long-lasting. That\'s not just an adrenal reaction, or I\'d end up tired and b!tchy after wearing it for a while.

[Holmes]

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That\'s not just an adrenal reaction, or I\'d end up tired and b!tchy after wearing it for a while.


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Yeah, exactly.

Holmes

[MysteriousMan]

SRH,

thanks for the answer.

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I\'ve worn it during the day--all day, I\'ve worn it at night for hours at a time. I\'ve had it since January. No matter when I wear it or how much, it does nothing for me. I get responses from guys, but it does nothing sexual for me. Not a thing--except that I may get irritated (no matter what time of the month) and I am uncomfortable because IT STINKS, no matter how small the app and where.

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This is interesting.
Maybe or not it makes a difference whether you wear it yourself (and know) or if you are a women who smells a man and you don\'t know it.

I remember reading about an experiment where the effect on women differed when the juice has been on a man or on a woman. I\'m sure this experiment wasn\'t with none but maybe we see similar effects.


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SOE can keep me happy and horny all day. It\'s different from the -nol reaction I have, because I often wear PIw or lavender SPMO by themselves. So the -rone\'s effect isn\'t just immediate--it\'s long-lasting. That\'s not just an adrenal reaction, or I\'d end up tired and b!tchy after wearing it for a while.


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Again it makes a difference whether you wear it or smell it on a man. But the insight of a woman who knows what she does is very interesting. -rone is also said to be a territorial marker, which is a thing that lasts longer. Your experience fits to the territorial theory.

MM

[Sexyredhead]

I think partly, we\'re both right. It may be that I\'m not reacting to it myself because I\'m not smelling it on a man. BUT, it may also be that some women just don\'t like it as well. There are women on this board that get turned on wearing TEw or NPAw alone, and there are women who don\'t at all.

As for -rone being a territorial marker, that would make a lot of sense. I really like a man who stakes his territory. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[CptKipling]

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How (to be more precise: how long) did you test -none? The none response takes 15 minutes and even the secret ingrediences of TE/NPA are said to take several minutes to take effect.

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Where did you get this information?

[MysteriousMan]

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As for -rone being a territorial marker, that would make a lot of sense. I really like a man who stakes his territory. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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[political correctness off]
-rone level is high in the pee of alpha men. Now look what dogs do.
[political correctness on]

Does anybody know if there is a relevant degree of -rone on the skin of alpha men by nature? JVK?

MM

[MysteriousMan]

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How (to be more precise: how long) did you test -none? The none response takes 15 minutes and even the secret ingrediences of TE/NPA are said to take several minutes to take effect.

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Where did you get this information?

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- none: see SoE (the book)
- TE: statements from the forum
- NPA: guessing from TE

MM

[CptKipling]

Hmmm...

It\'s just that my thinking is that it\'s a lot faster.

[MysteriousMan]

TE or none?

[CptKipling]

Well both really.

[MysteriousMan]

I can\'t make a conclusion from own experiences. (I do have experiences with responses but i\'m not sure how fast they were).

JVK cites a study that claims that the hormonal response takes 15 minutes. This maybe wrong. And maybe other effects of none (and secret ingediences) are faster than the hormonal response.
And maybe there is some conditioning: She reacts positive on the scent because her body knows there will be a hormonal response in a few minutes. I don\'t know.

But I\'m sure -rone is faster than -none. Just don\'t know how much.

[CptKipling]

Interesting.

I\'ve always expected there was conditioning involved, so maybe your right.

[Sexyredhead]

Well, if it takes 15 minutes, then how would you explain a DIHL from somebody you just walked by?

[MysteriousMan]

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Well, if it takes 15 minutes, then how would you explain a DIHL from somebody you just walked by?

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With none? Are there such testimonals? You said that there are no effects on you at all???

[CptKipling]

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Well, if it takes 15 minutes, then how would you explain a DIHL from somebody you just walked by?

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My thought\'s exactly.

[Sexyredhead]

I haven\'t gotten a DIHL with -none, but there are many testimonials on this forum talking about DIHLs from girls just walking by when they were wearing -none. That doesn\'t constitute a situation where the girls have been in their presence for 15+ minutes.

[Sagacious1420]

In my experiences there seems to be some variability in response time, but I don\'t recall any taking as long as 15 minutes. I usually don\'t use none solo, though. Perhaps since I normally use AE, that the rone is speeding things up...could it be that this is one of the \"boosting\" effects that rone is supposed to have on the other mones.?

Come to think of it, IIRC I got the most \"instant\" DIHLs when using AE alone or w/ SOE (even more rone). Hmmmmmmmm....

[CptKipling]

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I haven\'t gotten a DIHL with -none, but there are many testimonials on this forum talking about DIHLs from girls just walking by when they were wearing -none. That doesn\'t constitute a situation where the girls have been in their presence for 15+ minutes.

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SRH i think the reason that -none doesnt seem to affect you positively is because it is not implicated with the presence of a man. -none is unisex, so -none worn by you may make you stressed because the signals are akin to female competition. -rone however is largely a male pheromone, so the conditioning tells you that you can be comfortable, relaxed etc.

[jvkohl]

Conditioning of the visual response cycle to olfactory input (pheromones) occurs throughout a lifetime: beginning at birth. You _think_ you are attracted by physical appearance because your hormone response to pheromones occurs subconsciously. By the time you hit puberty, your body knows how to react to the scent of the opposite sex, and you have been conditioned to respond to particular pheromonal characteristics--depending on your experience with hair/eye color, skin tone, muscle structure, waist to hip ratio, etc. --all of which are associated with the pheromone signature.
Sexual experience with such characteristics will reinforce the response cycle (positively or negatively). It is NOT, the visual stimili that affect your hormone levels and reinforce your sexual response. It\'s the pheromones! Add some masculine pheromones and you can expect to get increased responsiveness from women. Add feminine pheromones and you can expect to get increased responsiveness from men. The DIHL response can occur immediately because you have hit the person with an increased dose of masculinity/femininity that can cause them to react quickly and strongly (based upon conditioning accross a lifetime of experience). But this type of response would not occur if a person had never imprinted on the pheromones of the opposite sex. It takes 15 minutes to get a change in testosterone levels after exposure to copulins. A behavioral response can occur more quickly, because as soon as the scent signature hits the olfactory system, the conditioned response cycle begins (in milliseconds). With women, the conditioned response as well as olfactory acuity and specificity vary with the menstrual cycle phase. That\'s why you can\'t expect to get the same reaction from every woman, every time. Still, reactions are predictable based upon menstrual cycle phase. I\'ve written extensively about this (and more cohesively than I can write in brief correspondance.) A recently published article may help some people to better understand \"conditioning.\"
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994083
The article shows that our hunger response can be conditioned to visual stimuli (even very unusual visual stimuli). You didn\'t really think that you were responding to the visual representation of food (in an ad, on a menu, whatever), did you? If the food didn\'t smell right, you would not eat it, no matter how \"good\" it looked. The hunger response is hormonal, and is conditioned via association with the chemistry of food. The sexual response is hormonal and conditioned by association with pheromones. Other mammals don\'t go looking for a good looking mate; they find one who smells right. We\'re mammals too! Our ability to think about mate choice, and to make conscious choices may set us apart from other mammals, but such choices still are based upon chemical communication: pheromones.

[manchorito]

Thanks JVK, you\'re right. It all makes sense, just because we have planes and computers, doesn\'t mean we\'re any different. When you get down to it all, we are pretty primative. We spend our lives looking for mates, things like new clothes isn\'t just her thinking its nice looking clothes, it\'s her unknowingly noticing attractive plumage, (sorry feathers is the closest thing I can come up with). All our thoughts are more than mental thoughts, they are sub concious thoughts. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[darkness]

JKohl -- That was one of the most valuable posts (for us) I have seen you write, so thanks.

I have one question, however. Does attraction and mating have to include the hormal responses that pheromones but not visual stimuli cause that you talked about in the \"SCent of Eros Review Thread\" last week?

What makes you say your answer? Don\'t we ever pick partners that may not share similar visual and phermonal stimuli as that of someone in the past who made us feel \"safe\" or \"loved\", etc? Or to remind us of this person(s) of the past, do shared behaviors of a potential mate not come into play, and is it all about simply finding the similar pheromonal signature as that person of the past to conjure romantic feelings?

Perhaps someone laughs, sips their tea, speaks, or uses their hands, etc closely enough to subconsiously draw a parallel to that person of the past, thus bring us feelings of safety or love, only to cause a different sort of attraction that is predicated on basically on those feelings.

Sometimes people aren\'t looking to be \"sexually turned-on\" by a partner, they are simply looking for someone who will evoke certain emotions, depending upon the circumstances of their life.

Perhaps nature is putting more importance on this as humans developed into such complex beings, with so many more deeper needs.

I guess I am asking if we no longer exclusively pick partners based on hormonal responses that pheromones can initiate?

[CptKipling]

Thanks JVK, another piece of the jigsaw puzzel... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jvkohl]

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Does attraction and mating have to include the hormal responses that pheromones but not visual stimuli cause that you talked about in the \"SCent of Eros Review Thread\" last week?

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The hormone response precedes any behavioral response, but conditioning of the visual response to olfactory stimuli allows visual stimuli to elicit a hormone response. That\'s why erotic images are arousing.

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Don\'t we ever pick partners that may not share similar visual and phermonal stimuli as that of someone in the past who made us feel \"safe\" or \"loved\", etc?

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We can pick partners who have just the opposite characteristics--it depends on the conditioned response. Women will choose (high testosterone) abusive men, despite ill treatment by them. Get rid of one macho jerk, and they\'re very apt to find another. It\'s because they are looking for the maximum olfactory stimulus that goes with the high testosterone levels. Sure, some high testosterone men can be nice guys, but did you ever wonder why so many women seem to choose the \"bad boys.\"

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Perhaps someone laughs, sips their tea, speaks, or uses their hands, etc closely enough to subconsiously draw a parallel to that person of the past, thus bring us feelings of safety or love, only to cause a different sort of attraction that is predicated on basically on those feelings.

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Many factors come into play, the pheromone signature remains the most important factor.

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Perhaps nature is putting more importance on this as humans developed into such complex beings, with so many more deeper needs.

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Many sociologists would agree about this change in human nature. Not many, if any, biologists would agree. A mammalian model is rather difficult to rise above, despite increased cognitive ability.

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I guess I am asking if we no longer exclusively pick partners based on hormonal responses that pheromones can initiate?

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Many people misinterpret what I have said, especially regarding what may appear to be exclusivity. Other factors come into play, but only because such factors are conditioned as paired with olfactory input (pheromones). No other sensory stimuli from our social environment has a direct impact on hormones, which are linked to our behavior--especially to sexual behavior. Without the direct link from social environmental sensory input to hormones, there is simply no way that social environmental sensory input can influence our behavior. Again, there is much more that I have written on this in publications that are available on the internet and linked from my website. In a nutshell, it\'s the nature versus nurture debate and its resolve: social environmental sensory input (pheromones): nurture, affect genes (nature) in cells that secrete a hormone that regulates all other hormones linked to reproductive (and other) sexual behavior.

Until some other social environmental sensory input is found to directly alter genes in hormone secreting nerve cells, the most crucial step is missing from the link between nature and nurture. I\'m betting no other such input will be found--if it ever is, it would tend to discount any mammalian model of human behavior. I\'ve been adamant for many years about someone proposing such a link, something that fits the criteria besides olfactory input. Since none of the researchers I know have ever offered such a link, it\'s hard to figure out why some of them still don\'t accept \"Human Pheromones: the link between neuroendocrinology and ethology\" as detailed in my Neuroendocrinology Letters review. But then, some people will always have difficulty grasping the obvious.