Skeptic Update

[kentwo]

Since I always see so many threads about hits. I\'d figure I\'d just post my own letting newbies know that mones does not work, for me at least. I\'m going on my 4th week with 0, yes 0 hits. Nothing even close. For those who want some more info about the situation, I believe one of the earlier threads contain background info about how, where I apply as well as behavior while in use.

This is just for those newbies coming in to take all those positive hit posts with a grain of salt, because it may not work for you.

[Mtnjim]

But then a $100 bill tied to the ding-dong might not work for someone too. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

There will always be exceptions!
Sorry dude.

[CJ01]

Too bad you haven´t had any so called hits. What products are you using, how much, mixes etc? Some info about your person might help us to help you a bit.

Those `hits´ are a funny thing, sometimes they´re so subtle you hardly notice them. This happens to a lot of (new) users actually, so don´t fret, tell us exactly how you´ve approached your phero usage and maybe we can give you some tips.

CJ [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[unDeNiable]

Dude just because your not getting incredible off the wall hits doesnt mean your not getting any hits. Mones arent like a magic spell thats gonna get ladies flocking all around you, they just help you get in the front door. You still have to do alot on your own, like being able to talk to girls, approaching them, etc. Then while in the process of doing this they will smell them on you. Don\'t just expect things to happen and you have to tell us more about your self. I mean if your extremely fat and ugly no matter how many mones your put on even the right mix isnt gonna work wonders on you and get you a knockout girlfriend. You should evaluate yourself and improve other things on you as well. For example overweight - workout, shy - try to be more outgoing, etc. Do these things and i guarantee youll get more hits and try to be more observant girls maybe checking you out and giving you hits and you may not even notice it. Tell us some more info about your self and amount of mones your using so we can give u some pointers.

U_D [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[tallmacky]

I think I am a pretty good looking guy, everything else is filled out and such. I have to say that I wore -mones for around the last 5-6 months in highschool, and everything went wayyyyyy up. Walk by a girl and she whispers \"Wow, that guy is so hot\". That happen like around 3 times that I noticed, everything heighten, I would have girls looking at me the same way some horny 13 year old boy looks at some big boobed senior. Not just a few but a majority of girls were effected. When you first start out you are not on the look for these things and a lot of them go by. You tell yourself oh that\'s normal I am just hot and such.

The highschool setting let me see how pheromone\'s work in a whole and how strongly they work. I remember walking behind one girl about 10 feet and she is walking normally and I then see all the signs of her picking up the scent, she turns around with a curious face looking for for the smell as if she is trying to find a new mate, there was no one directly behind her no noise for her to turn around, you just know when it\'s the -mones, I had a lot of turn arounds from girls and the day dreaming looks. I have some many little things that happen that I could point to...hundreds of them.

I did not seek out any girls, I was a little flirtacious but most of the time I would not try to hit/mack on them, even then though I could see that if I did I would have a 100 percent success rate, I didn\'t have to hit on them to get those huge signs of attraction. Some really interesting things happen from a lot of girls, this stuff was like a miracle for me, though I did not go in for the kill (during school) I got a lot of hits from women, which is far tougher than girls getting hits from guys. I remember once seemingly most of the girls in the hallway looking at me, anyhow at times when I was not bein spoiled by the -mones it seemed they were not working I was like WTF at times. I believe they are always \"working\" but can be forcibly ignored when needed.

As of late I have been off -mones because I had no use for them as I am just being a lazy ass for the summer vacation, I started to think hey -mones don\'t really do much at all, I even started questioning them, until I remembered all that they did and are capable of doing.
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Kentwoo, where do you guy while you wear your -mones? What are you using and how are you using them?

[kentwo]

Thanks for the support. This post was not so much for my sake as it was to let newbies coming to keep an even head and don\'t be fooled by all of the hit posts.

As I said earlier I\'ve had many suggestions already (which I am grateful for) with no hits (I\'ve read many many posts about what constitutes a hit and of course I\'m still dubious on it is the mones or behavior but that\'s another post.) But for those who missed it, I\'ve tried anywhere from 2-8 drops of AE, with or without 1/4-1/2 a gel pack of SOE on my wrists, neck, chests, pits and hands. I\'ve also alternated between using a cover and not using one. Thanks for all the advice, I\'m going to keep trying. At least until my AE is used up.

If you are new to this site, I just want to say, don\'t believe every post. The mones you buy may not work.

[Prometheus]

Hey Kentwo-

I\'ve been using pheromones for about three weeks with no hits. (AE the first week, AE+SOE wk2, AE + SOE + TE wk3) Yeah, I\'ve notice what could be behavioural changes w/my co-workers (for the better- they seem to be more helpful) but unfortunatly no definitive hits from attractive females that were definatly not placebo effect. I was just wondering but I think that in my case a lot of this is my fault- though I use pheromones every day unfortunalty I work w/ all males during the day and go to the gym in the evening (where sweat kill mones)and that\'s pretty much my life right now. I havn\'t been out to clubs, parties or coffee shops where (i suppose anyway) attractive women are. Also I\'m a bit shy. I suppose if your were in the best pheromone combo in the world and there were no women around you wouldn\'t be getting any hits. I\'m not critizizing your post, just trying to characterize your situation. Others might be in the same situation too.

-If pheromones could work for us skeptics, that would truly validate their effectiveness.

[kentwo]

That\'s all true. If it suddenly worked for us we\'d probably the loudest of them all.

But unfortunately, it doesn\'t so far. I\'m not in your situation though, I do work around many different women from different age groups and races. I also go to many clubs, bars and other social night life activities with no results. I\'ve tried most of the tips given so far and have also tried differing the \"outgoingness\" or \"helpfulness\" of my behavior. But maybe its like it said. It just is not working.

[Sinbard]

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If you are new to this site, I just want to say, don\'t believe every post. The mones you buy may not work.


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\"> ...FOR YOU...

[Sinbard]

Please excuse the grammar and general skittishness this post may contain, but I only just woke up after a heavy nights drinking and general debauchery.

I too was a sceptic. In fact, I\'m so cynical and sceptical in general that a few of my ex\'s have dated me just to prove to themselves they can change me, and they failed... miserably [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, where was I... oh yes, scepticism. I\'ve laughed at the notion of pheromones for many years (since I read about them some 6 years ago in the back of an adult magasine) and never really paid them much thought. I\'ve never really had any problems at all with women and possess above average ability in understanding female bodylanguage and cues. This has enabled me (along with above average looks (8+/10)) and a great deal of charm to pull pretty much anyone I\'ve wanted in the past, and I\'ve had some fun rides.

About 3 weeks ago I decided to give pheromones a trial, in a purely scientific and as much as possible, controlled manner. Purchased some AE/m and started playing. I spent the first 8 days or so thinking I\'d been totally hornswaggled, and that some bloke in the sunny US of A had snaffled $60 of my money and was sipping on a beer in a bar somewhere grinning.

However, After that point I started to notice some really strange results. You can use the Search function for more details of the various occurrences, but the main difference is I sat back and wasn\'t pro-active in seeking women. I continued in my usual pursuits of alcohol and narcotic excess in the usual rave, club, and pub settings, without actively \'chasing\' women as I usually do.

And guess what - women would actively seek me out. BUT, they *STILL* wouldn\'t overtly come up to me and demand instant-no-strings-sex. To think that the womens mind works that way displays a lack of knowledge and a great deal of inexperience with the female of the species. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and there are women so skanky that they will just drag you off to some corner of the club and get to work - but those aren\'t the type of women I go for. Also, you need to attend *specific* events and clubs to meet *that* kind of woman. In the UK we call those type of clubs \"meat-markets\" or \"cattle-markets\" - as most of the people there are exclusively there to get laid.

However, I digress. For the first few days of noticable results (and by this I know you\'re thinking \"hits\", and I am, but I\'m talking bodylanguage and behavioural hits - not women instantly seeing me and unzipping my flies ready to spit-polish my member - it doesn\'t work that way) I proverbially stood back and let them do the work, obvioiusly still being friendly and chatty and pleasant. And I didn\'t get laid once. I purposely didn\'t pick up and play on their \'feeder\' lines. I wasn\'t passing the ball back in the proverbial tennis match of flirting. In other words, I acted intentionally with Male-Flirting-Blindness Syndrome, and it failed miserably.

From that point on I changed tactic and reverted back to my usual charming and flirtatious self... and the results were absolutely outstanding. Women were much more comfortable passing me the feeder lines, and were a lot more receptive to my advances.

Wow, I need some coffee and a cigarette... so I\'ll wrap this up, even though I have no idea why I\'m writing any of this. You can\'t look at pheromones to cure all your psychological and emotional shortcomings when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex. It\'s not going to do it for you like that, sorry to let you down. To fix those you\'re going to need councelling or tutoring of some sort. It will however enhance DYNAMICALLY your current \'game\' or \'play\' or whatever euphemism you choose to use.

Imagine it this way, how much easier is it to pull a woman when her friend has whispered in her ear a few times \"hey Julie, Joanne said last night that guy is HOT! He\'s dynamite in bed, a real animal...\" etc. Much easier. I now think of pheromones in that way. It\'s like a thought or idea that runs around the back of their mind that adds a + mark to your current game score.

It\'s like a voice in their head that tells them occasionally during the conversation \"mmmm, something keeps telling me this guy is hot\".

Or something... where\'s my freekin coffee

[CptKipling]

Outstanding post, sceptics take note...

P.S cattle markets... lol they are greatest &lt;slips into reverie&gt;

[Sinbard]

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P.S cattle markets... lol they are greatest &lt;slips into reverie&gt;

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Heh, every once in a while ya have to step back into a cattle market for memories [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Icarus]

Or just a gratuitous show of flesh.

Either way is good.

&lt;joins CptKipling and Sinbard in \'Looking Into Upper Corner of Room\' style reverie&gt;

Steve

[Holmes]

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Anyway, where was I... oh yes, scepticism.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nice post, Sinbard.

Holmes

[LadyWithQuestions]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
P.S cattle markets... lol they are greatest &lt;slips into reverie&gt;

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Heh, every once in a while ya have to step back into a cattle market for memories [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Forgive my intrusion to this obviously \"male discussion,\" but I had to chuckle with the \"Cattle Market\" comments. Coming from my background, I now know WHY people in my communities not only have NO trouble finding a mate, but producing so many children......*GRIN* No, they don\'t \"stink\" all the time, but they work hard, are very vigorous and healthy physically, and do not use all the \"Englisch\" cover-ups such as perfumes and heavily-scented soaps, etc. In fact, the Old Orders actually even MAKE their own soaps. The ladies might put some lavender oils in the soaps for washing their hair, etc. But now that I understand the whole \"Pheremone concept\" a little better, I can see how they were probably DRENCHED in healthy, unaltered doses of them. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] A \"good, healthy sweat\" is considered admirable.......the \"sign of a hard worker (both male AND female).\"

Unfortunately, with living and working in the \"Englisch\" world, I must now comform to THEIR expectations such as frequent bathing (I\'m SHOCKED at how OFTEN Englisch girls wash their hair!! It surely strips it of ALL the natural oils and protectants. Then they have to load on ARTIFICIAL products to do the very same things their NATURAL secretions should be doing. It\'s quite humorous, to say the least. I digress............) Then of course, the Englisch expect people to \"SMELL GOOD\" and most of those \"good smells\" are artificial and synthetic, so I\'ve fallen into the same trap of requirements and expectations (EXCEPT for the frequent \"hair-stripping-routine\" and bodily shaving.....thanks to opaque stockings and long sleeves.......LOL), and can now SEE and UNDERSTAND the need for everyone to wear \"artifically-produced\" pheremones (myself included, since I can\'t go around every day smelling like I just cleaned the house, washed a thousand pairs of broadfalls, milked a hundred cows, and baked 12 pies and 600 cinnamon rolls~! WOW...what a wonderful memory of smells all rolled into one.) Sighhhhh..........So here I am, as one of you, searching for the \"PERFECT, artificial, ODOR-FREE, Pheremone.\" LOL

I just had to have a good laugh with the skeptics as WELL as for us \"believers\" as well. Hope you don\'t mind. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

LWQ

[CptKipling]

Ladies are always welcome!

But beware, we do tend to bite... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[dondk]

I am going to chime in on this discussion...

I have been trying this for about 3 weeks with no \"appreciable\" results. Does that mean I had no results? no, but the jury is still out on what I did get.

My background is scientific based, which includes laboratory study. So I was trying to take this from a purely scientific standpoint, my first mistake.

Look at the names of the pheromone products, WAGG (what a great guy), Alter Ego, The edge and so on.. That is 1/2 the process to making this all work. They are not a \"cure all\" but a stepping stone if used properly.

Personally I have not had problems with women in the past, but I have been told on many occasions that I tend to be unapproachable (body language?). I am also in a profession (my new one) that I thought was difficult to be approached.
Which I thought was true until I was walking through the terminal with my Captain who is the same age, same looks as I but he was being approached by flight attendants, and having gate agents page him by name to flirt with him. This attention alone increased his \"visibility\" to all the females. The thing I noticed most, was the women were all great women, any one of them I would have like to get to know more. So that discounted the fact of not being approachable by profession so it must be me.

Shortly thereafter I tried the Pheromones to \"enhance\" my visibility. Well, they do not work alone... As I said earlier they are the stepping stone, the rest is how you perceive yourself and how you want to be perceived. I have found that changing my body language has made it easier for me. Now add the Pheromones and I am seeing some changes, albeit subtle.

Now I have changed the process of use, application and more importantly the objective to see it they actually work. Have I received DIHL\'s? I \"think\" so, have I had some women be more \"chatty\" or more comfortable with me? At times yes and at time no noticable change.

Is there a \"mix\" that answers all, I personally think not.
Everyone\'s body chemistry is different, as well a soaps, shampoo\'s, colonge\'s and any other \"additives\" they use in the process of grooming themselves. Not to mention natural pheromone\'s, charm, attractiveness, style, and the list can go on and on if you see where I am going with this.

I will add that some of the \"hit\" reports I have seen posted here are highly questionable. Some seem way too good to be true and even some sound like they are right out a script, but then again this can be perception. I also try to factor in the age of the person and how they are reporting their hits. Now I am 38, and I have a 15 yr old son. Not to be disrespectful to the younger crowd, but I have seen my son in action, and how he perceives things is not exactly how I would perceive the same thing. So are our younger crowd maybe embellishing a bit, who knows, but it is THEIR perception of the event not exactly yours or mine.

The only other comment I will add is how some people on this board immediatley state that IF your fat, ugly, or some other negative attribute that you are wasting your time. Again, perception is 1/2 the battle, I have seen plenty of drop dead gorgeous men AND women with what \"I think\" are unattacive mates but they are. I seriously doubt Phero\'s are a reason they are together, or what they have in their wallets OR between their legs....

[LadyWithQuestions]

dondk....very well-said and very well-put.
Thank you.

[tounge]

Good post dondk. Now would you mind, when you have time,to expound upon the changes you made in your body language? In my opinion this would be of more help to the young folk and others having attraction problems,than anything else. I constantly preach this to my friends and it is difficult to get them to change a losing game.

[tallmacky]

Had a summer school class today, put on 3 drops of AE/M on my clothes and about 6 all over my face, neck, arms. Along with this I used 2 sprays of TE/W on my chest. Didn\'t have much tims so I just covered it with BOD.

I had sweat a lot, it was very hot/walking and such I really think I sweat off a lot of the -mones, but that is why I wore so much. Didn\'t have time to really exchange anything with the females and such and there weren\'t groups of girls around instead maybe 2 or 3 at the most in groups. Didn\'t notice that much attention, not like what I had in the actual school year. Though I didn\'t try to make my prescense known. Maybe a few possible weird looks but that is about it I believe.

P.S.

See this is what\'s tough, trying to figure out whether or not they had an effect. I also forgot after I got there I put some SOE in my hair, which was alreay wet with sweat, some conversations seemd a bit longer. Not only that but some reactions I could say pheros had a part but it\'s tough.

[DrSmellThis]

Perhaps you could pull together the history, situations, applications, responses, personal style, height/age/weight/build, exercise, life circumstances, general health, supplement use; bathing habits; history with women.

With this releveant information those with the most experience might be able to problem-solve.

[Holmes]

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Not to be disrespectful to the younger crowd, but I have seen my son in action, and how he perceives things is not exactly how I would perceive the same thing. So are our younger crowd maybe embellishing a bit, who knows, but it is THEIR perception of the event not exactly yours or mine.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Specifics, please?
.
Holmes

[Holmes]

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Again, perception is 1/2 the battle,

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Amen!

Holmes

[dondk]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Good post dondk. Now would you mind, when you have time,to expound upon the changes you made in your body language?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

When standing around the natural tendency to cross your arms, this is can be taken as confrontational by some. Also the stance is important, standing like your at attention comes across as confrontational.
Sitting down at a table with your arms around a drink or food can be viewed as guarding or guarded.
Walking with confidence, head up not down (avoidance), eye to eye contact is VERY important, it also shows confidence. Your body language has to be one with confidence and control. When you speak, watch your hand motions, some people tend to speak heavily with their hands and that can be taken as unsure.

What I have changed specifically is less motion with my hands during conversation, much more eye contact, keeping my body language in a \"inviting\" way.

Changing body language is a tough thing to do, many of us have been doing certain motions for years and habits are hard to break. I have to remind myself consciously that I am crossing my arms.


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</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Not to be disrespectful to the younger crowd, but I have seen my son in action, and how he perceives things is not exactly how I would perceive the same thing. So are our younger crowd maybe embellishing a bit, who knows, but it is THEIR perception of the event not exactly yours or mine.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Specifics, please?
.
Holmes

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I have watched my son with girls his age and how they respond to him. A little flirt, giggle or even a touch he perceives as a \"score\". I see it as a beginning to explore and not a \"score\". Younger women have tendencies of being more aloof or a \"tease\". Older women already know what they want, and what they do not want, also the \"tease factor\" is a lot less.

So.. when I read about some of the hit\'s reported by our under 20 crowd the first thing that I ask myself is was it an actual \"hit\" or part of the game?

When I read the hits by people in an office environment or work environment I take them much more seriously and look for those combinations and what they saw.

It all comes down to perception and I for one am trying to change how I want to be perceived. Phero\'s is just the start and one of many stepping stones.

[Holmes]

Great points, Dondk. Thanks. Body language can indeed be a tough thing to change. There are a number of good books on the subject (some mentioned in the past by the folks here, if I remember correctly). You might want to check that avenue out, though it sounds like you\'re well on your way making adjustments.

I\'ve been involved in acting classes for a little while now. It\'s amazing what they make you aware of, in terms of your own body language habits and, subsequently, how to change \'em to create the outward effect you\'re after...

Holmes

[kentwo]

Dondk,
I\'m just curious you said that you took a scientific approach to it, what was scientific about it? I\'ve been trying to have some \"experienced\" people do a double blind test to see if it really is the mones. Like you said it wasn\'t until you changed your behavior that you saw results. I\'m just curious to see if you behaved the way you do when you are wearing mones if it would make a difference. The only way I can see to test that would be to mix 2 batches (one clean and one spiked) then use them for a couple weeks each, recording your results. Then unveil the two and see which one had the best results. I\'ve seen a lot of people stressing the fact that you have to act different for it to work, and I think that\'s what makes me the most skeptical. I think that anything would work if you made yourself more approachable to people, had higher self esteem or just thought it was working. Perhaps some people see hits that are not really there. I don\'t want to insult anyone, but the whole need to believe for it to work reminds me of those religious faith healers who cure everything with a slap on the head. People who see them swear it works if you believe, while people standing on the outside of the circle are a little more dubious. With mones, do you need to be in the circle to see results? I figure based on the scientific facts provided by other members, that everyone should be able to see results. I\'m not saying that acting like an ass will get you hits, but I feel that you should see some reactions no matter how you act, because the mones should reach other people before you even open your mouth to say anything. Right? So if you walk into a room, before you even show any sign of how you behave, I feel that you should see some type of reaction. Be it DIHL or some thing else.

I\'ve enjoyed reading about the issue, thanks DrSmell, but a few articles in the link that I got from people excluded some key information. Several of the articles did not explain how they quantified their data or reached their conclusions while others which said mones don\'t work didn\'t have working links themselves. I personally think that mones do work. I wouldn\'t be here if I didn\'t. I agree with the experiments supporting the affect mones has on menstral cycles etc... But I\'m trying to see if certain products work.

Like I said the experiment for me goes on. And despite what you may think, I am hopeful to see some results and I am keeping an open mind. I\'m just trying to find more scientific results that can be attained by everyone regardless of behavior.

[dondk]

Kentwo...

Great position to take I agree with some of your points... I do believe this CANNOT be done scientifically, and I did say taking a scientific approach was my first mistake

You need a constant or a controlled environment. For me I live and work in a dynamic environment, I rarely if ever see the same people day in and day out at the same times.
To be more specific, yes a double blind study would work in an environment that was basically sterile with no appreciable distractions and the same set of people. As some \'mones have been reported to yield negative results during a womans menstrual cycle you would need to have the larger portion of the group to have the same or similar cycles to ensure the group was not influenced. Herein lies the problem with making this \"too scientific\".

In my environment, I have a group of gate agents, most work similar schedules for the month ( I do not), the flight attendants also work a varied schedule so I cannot \"test\" on the same one regularly. Passenegers, well.. I do not need to say more about them. I have a dynamic, ever-changing environmet that I cannot do a precise test on. The same would be for those in nightclubs, or other venues where the populations or control group constantly changes.

Can we still do a study? yes, but you need to loosen the requirements that may give you subjective results. That is why we see so many different results that make us skeptical. Using two different batches may work but if you do not have a contstant control group it will not yield constant results.

I do agree with your process of walking into a room and seeing if you have any results. This would be the clearest indication of a \"hit\". Although I would argue you would need to use the same room with different concentrations to see which yielded a constant \"hit\"

Can I be cured of skepticism with mones? probably not until I see a constant reaction on a semi-regular to regular basis. Is that feasable? I have no clue, but I am going to wear the mones in my dynamic environment and see if I get some results (DIHLS or some other signal). If I should start to see results then to \"increase\" the results I should change my body language or approacability to see if the hit\'s increase. That for me would be the clearest way to distinguish a true hit versus a change I made to myself whether it be style, body language of some other physical change.

Another argument would be if one would have a \"target\" person or group and use varying concentrations without ANY other physical or physcological changes and see if and when you were able to yeild a postive response to mones alone. I am considering that to be my next test. Using a specific store clerk or some co-worker and using varing amounts without any other changes to yourself may be one way to yeild an objective result.

I do agree with you that I at times wonder if this is \"snake oil\" and it is more my perception and subliminal process that needs to be changed over an application of some oil or alcohol based fragrance.

On a final note, just to really add confusion to the mix.. I was raised in NY, a tough area in dating. I found that many women had preconceptions of who or more preciesly what they were looking for or wanted. In my profession, since I have the ability to travel at will throughout the country I can qualify that statement that some women have preconceptions of who or what they want. So.. how will mones affect their preconceptions? Specifically in ny (long island) the women want basically three things... A person with a steady job (professional preferably), good living arrangements and a good ride. So, if I pulled up to the club in my BMW, got out is an attire that looks like it came out of GQ, I was 1/2 way \"in\". While is the mid west, the women wanted more \"rugged\" men, you show up in your NASCAR jacket with cowboy boots on you won 1/2 the battle (perception, I think I have touched on this before). Not knowing the preconceptions of your target women can also make the study harder OR can qualify it.

I have been wanting to expand my products to see if a specific product or \"mix\" is better than another. Although with all of these variables I can see this becoming a very expensive pseudo-scientific experiment that (my skeptic side now) may never yeild enough results to win me over.

I would like to hear from others what they think and how they have addressed some of the issue\'s Kentwo and others have presented. Are we missing something that others are seeing?

[Holmes]

Dondk, when you say you were \"raised in NY,\" do you mean the City, or Long Island, in fact?

Also, just curious: where in your travels have you found people to be most \"open\"--i.e. with fewer preconceptions as to what they\'re looking for? (L.I. scene sounds horrendous...) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Thanks.

Holmes