Article claiming pheros don't work in humans

[xvs]

The odd thing about this is that we know for sure from previous research that they do work... this reminds me of the \"proof\" that bumblebees can\'t fly.

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Source: University Of Michigan
Date: 2003-06-17

Birds Do It. Bugs Do It. But Why Don\'t We?
ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Many creatures including our fellow primates the New World Monkeys rely on highly specific scent molecules called pheromones to find a suitable mate. Even our humble mammal cousin, the mouse, was found to have 140 genes just for pheromone receptors when its genome was completely sequenced earlier this year.

But humans are clueless when it comes to pheromone signals, according to University of Michigan evolutionary biologist Jianzhi \"George\" Zhang. He believes color vision put our pheromones out of business.

Our closest relatives on the primate family tree rely on \"sexual swelling\" and gaudy, colorful patches of skin to signal their reproductive fitness and fertility, Zhang said. In fact, though humans and these apes still carry genes that should create pheromone receptors in our noses, these genes have mutated to the point that they are merely pseudogenes---they don\'t function any more.

Zhang has used the genes of people and primates to get at the answer to this intriguing puzzle. Zhang (pronounced Zong), is an assistant professor in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology in the College of Literature, Science and Arts. Zhang\'s paper on the topic appears this week in the online Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Zhang believes that a significant gene duplication made the difference and that it happened sometime between 23 million years ago and the split of the New World and Old World primates about 35 million years ago.

An ancestor of the Old World primates (humans, chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons, baboons and guerezas) developed a second copy of the red/green color-vision gene, which resides on the X chromosome. Female New World monkeys have full color vision because females have two X chromosomes that harbor both red and green color vision genes. But males only have one X chromosome, so New World males have only one copy of either the red or green gene, and that leaves them color-blind. After the red/green gene duplication in the Old World family however, even the males got color vision too.

\"Color vision made pheromones unnecessary,\" Zhang said. As a channel for sexual signaling, color vision works better at a distance than pheromones, Zhang believes. A pheromone attaches to a water molecule, drifts about in the air currents and finally lands on the proper receptor in someone else\'s nose. The receiver can\'t immediately be sure who sent it, where it came from or when. But with sexual swelling, everyone in the troop can see precisely when and where the signal is, even at a significant distance.

Sexual swelling occurs in about 10 percent of all primate species, but only in the Old World species of Africa and Asia, which is where humans probably originated, as well.

To test their idea, Zhang\'s team zeroed in on a human gene called TRP2, which makes an ion channel that is unique to the pheromone signaling pathway. They found that in humans and Old World primates, this gene suffered a mutation just over 23 million years ago that rendered it dysfunctional. But because we could use color vision for mating, it didn\'t hurt us. In turn, the pheromone receptor genes that rely on this ion channel fell into disuse, and in a random fashion, mutated to a dysfunctional state because they haven\'t experienced any pressure from natural selection. Zhang calls this process \"evolutionary deterioration.\"

Zhang\'s paper, \"Evolutionary deterioration of the vomeronasal pheromone transduction pathway in catarrrhine primates\" appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences online http://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1331721100

[bundyburger]

DAMN!! ... now I\'ll have to send all my pheros back for a refund. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[TBiRD]

Somebody splash some TE on Zhang\'s head and let him hit some women-crowded places !


Then make him write 500 times \" I will not say pheromones don\'t work \" simpsons (bart) style ...


And only then he will be given a chance to rewrite this stupid worthles piece of shiznit article. Muahahah ! A night out with TE convinces everybody [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[koolking1]

no wonder all the females I\'ve been attracting look like dogs, real old dogs too!!! Oh Well, I once had a college history professor tell me in no uncertain terms that Luang Prabang is in Vietnam.

[Genome335]

lol why not pour a bottle of TE/m over his head and watch him get clobbered by every guy in sight [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
lol why not pour a bottle of TE/m over his head and watch him get clobbered by every guy in sight [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Good one! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I say we dowse him w/ a bottle of PI/m and send him to a biker rally. Sounds like a field test to me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

If a university professor says that bumblebees can\'t fly, then they can\'t fly or that pheros don\'t work in humans, then they don\'t work. It must be true,, I mean he has a whole research paper full of statistics and charts and graphs...\"and 8x10 color glossy photos w/ circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one\".... Now, if I see Dan Rather or Ted Koppel tell me so on TV, then I will have to believe him...it must be true. I mean it\'s on TV and it\'s Dan Rather, etc. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
We should thank Mr. Zshlong and the NAS for this one, we don\'t need everybody running around stinkin\' all the time, right. So I say he\'s right and I\'ll be placing another order soon. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[tallmacky]

I really wish they would settle this issue, it seems pretty easy to settle, instead of beating around the bush as bored scientist and enthusiasts seem to do.

BTW, I hope they don\'t work then that means I am a sexy bitch. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img](jokey wokey mobley style)

[Watcher]

Someone with some money and this guys address, please send him some perfect 10 and tell him to test for 1 month and then come to this forum and tell us they didnt do anything whatsoever for him or has been suggested dump some TE on him and then according to him nothing should happen right !!!, if something happens then we will send him all our stories and see how he handles it. He probably is a virgin and has never even done it.

[elvido]

I think it\'s great news. Gotta keep the secret amongst us.

[abductor]

Try talk with him,

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Jianzhi George Zhang, Ph.D.
Evolutionary Biologist
- Gene duplications
- New genes with novel functions
- Human origins
- Patterns and mechanisms of genome evolution
Titles: Assistant Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology; Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology.

http://www.eeb.lsa.umich.edu/eebfacultydetails.asp?ID=96
Phone: (734) 763-0527
jianzhi@umich.edu


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


may we can send some mone to him.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Charisma]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Try talk with him,

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

Jianzhi George Zhang, Ph.D.
Evolutionary Biologist
- Gene duplications
- New genes with novel functions
- Human origins
- Patterns and mechanisms of genome evolution
Titles: Assistant Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology; Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology.

http://www.eeb.lsa.umich.edu/eebfacultydetails.asp?ID=96
Phone: (734) 763-0527
jianzhi@umich.edu


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


may we can send some mone to him.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">
Somehow I got this weird flashback from The Muppets. Do you still remember Dr. Bunson Honeydew with his assistant Beaker (Meep! Meep! Meep!)

[abductor]

LoL [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[bivonic]

I\'ll talk with him, but somehow I don\'t think I\'m the best person to send, while reading Kohl\'s book I\'d be interested on his views of the following:
[*]why do women in sororities end up developing the same menstrual cycle?[*] What is it about close dancing that makes it an important element in the courtship rituals of many cycles?[*] Why do so many women find the sweaty sports hero or sun-tanned \"macho\" man so irrestibly sexy?[*] Why are some men attracted to women with large breasts? Could this be related to the scent producing glands in the breasts?[*] Why does sex drive decline in older men &amp; women, anything related to the decline in their sense of smell?[*] Why is a reduced sex drive, delayed puberty, and infertility in women often associated with a reduced sense of smell?[*] Why does \"Joanne\" end up sleeping on her husband\'s side of the bed, or wear his shirts or robe while he\'s away?[*] Why do many children object vehemently when their mothers try to put their security blanket or teddy bear in the wash?
{taken from Scent of Eros by Kohl &amp; Francoeur}

[akinu]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
lol why not pour a bottle of TE/m over his head and watch him get clobbered by every guy in sight [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

God! I got the TE (spray bottle) and sprayed from 1 to 5 sprays, but nothing happened. I know \"nothing happens\" is becoming like a motto to me, but everyone is so sure about TE. What can be wrong with my TE?

[Watcher]

Bivonic, just send this clown a copy of the scent of eros and let him read it cover to cover and then set what happens (has he reserached in a thourugh manner into pheromones or just stuck to his own theory in an attempt to knock it down without proper investigation) we the 2000 odd members of the forum cannot be ignored ? And yes there are active genes didicated to pheromones in humans.

[bivonic]

I\'d like to see his explanation for a DIHL.

[amorolor]

I don\'t know how many of you saw it but there was A study released A few months back which claims celery eaten by men effects women in the same way these products claim to. The substence in celery that causes this, from what I\'ve read, is good ole\' Androsterone. Perhaps the gentleman who did THIS study should duke it out with the guy who did THAT one. Might I suggest A steel cage match?

[Andy]

Never trust a study or statistic that you haven\'t faked on your own [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[Watcher]

Celery helps with ANone production - but the amounts in these products are up to 500 times more concentrated than any human can produce, so if you want a better natural sig then possibly eat more celery, but consuming raw Arone in DHEA form well that is a better option. We have been over this many many times.

[CptKipling]

His primary argument is that our vision allows us to identify mates, but where do we sexually swell? Well apart from the obvious [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[abductor]

I would very appreciate to hear some words about subject from JVK or DocSmell... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[jvkohl]

I\'m not sure whether I\'ll bother to read the journal article. In any case, the media interpretation is skewed according to a discussion on one of the scientific forums. Human pheromones alter hormone levels; hormones alter behavior, thus human pheromones alter human behavior.

Since visual interpretation of color is likely to be the same for males and females, what causes the color association to take on sexual significance for the male? Not only must there be a sex difference in the signal being sent, but also a difference in the way it is processed. There are sex differences in the sense of smell; none that I know of in the visual pathways. This makes it obvious to me that pheromones and olfaction condition the visual response cycle that the article indicates is due to color vision.

[DrSmellThis]

A short summary of this thread:

Academics like to find something and say they\'ve found the only thing. It looks good within their specialty and department to say they\'ve found IT. Generally, scientists aren\'t paid to look at big pictures, and so they tell themselves they can\'t.

A shorter summary:

MONKEYS!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]