Biblical History

[seadove]

Interesting facts.

Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible.

But, do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land of Shinar, and Mesopotamia. The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The name \"Iraq\" means country with deep roots. Indeed, Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

Here\'s why:

Eden was in Iraq -- Genesis 2:10-14

Adam and Eve were created in Iraq -- Genesis 2:7-8

Satan made his first recorded appearance in Iraq -- Genesis 3:1-6

Nimrod established Babylon and the Tower of Babel was built in Iraq -- Genesis 10: 8-9 7 and 11:1-4

The confusion of the languages took place in Iraq -- Genesis 11:5-11

Abraham came from a city in Iraq -- Genesis 11:31 and Acts 7:2-4

Isaac\'s bride came from Iraq -- Genesis 24:3-4 and 10

Jacob Spent 20 years in Iraq -- Genesis 27:42-45 and 31:38

The first world Empire was in Iraq -- Daniel 1:1-2 and 2:36-38

The greatest revival in history was in a city in Iraq -- Jonah 3

The events of the book of Esther took place in Iraq -- Esther

The book of Nahum was a prophecy against a city in Iraq -- Nahum

The book of Revelation has prophecies against Babylon, which was the old name for the nation of Iraq
-- Revelation 17 and 18

[Watcher]

Like any good fairytale the bible has had thousands of years to be manipulated by each generation. Have some changes made, be re-written etc etc. Id take what is said in the bible as it is, a mass control over the masses by organised religion for the purpose of maintaining society morals and cocehsiveness, and within the catholic church to allow peadaphilles to work up until now without any checks into these activties.

[fizzymcgee]

you can\'t blame the bible (or any religion) for the stupidity and/or corruption of its followers. I don\'t take most of the bible literally, but I think every word is true and good in it\'s own way. As far as the history mentioned, I really don\'t see why any of it should not be true. However, having only read bits and pieces (which admittedly makes me FAR from qualified to comment as i am), I might have missed parts that could use such historical reference to create a sense of superiority in a particular race. Such things may have been added over time to abuse the power of the bible for personal gain. However, I have yet to read a passage, or hear one cited, that led me to believe i was being manipulated by the bible\'s message. Of course that isn\'t to say people don\'t USE the power of the bible to manipulate others....again that isn\'t really the fault of the bible.

[Sexyredhead]

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Like any good fairytale the bible has had thousands of years to be manipulated by each generation. Have some changes made, be re-written etc etc. Id take what is said in the bible as it is, a mass control over the masses by organised religion for the purpose of maintaining society morals and cocehsiveness, and within the catholic church to allow peadaphilles to work up until now without any checks into these activties.

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Ya know, all I can say is I\'m sorry you feel that way. I can\'t argue with you because you\'re never going to see my side of the argument.
All I know is there is a God, the one who gave us the Bible through people He chose to write His words. For the most part its finished form has not been changed through the ages, other than translated.

As for the Catholic Church, well, they have troubles, and they\'ve done a lot of bad things that aren\'t excusable. But the Catholic church is not the sole form of Christianity. Many bad people have used it to manipulate others unfortunately.

Can I prove to you that there\'s a God? No. No argument I give will be good enough for someone who doesn\'t want to see. But I know. I can feel it in my gut. I know it in my heart. I can see it in everything. I\'ve never doubted it in my life. You can look down your nose at me, think of me as one of the \"controlled masses\", whatever. It doesn\'t matter to me.

So again, I\'m sorry you feel that way.

[pelotudo]

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Satan made his first recorded appearance in Iraq -- Genesis 3:1-6

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Yup, this is true...cuz he\'s still there.


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This has nothing to do with my political or religious point of view, as I can see a flame war coming from that statement, I was just making a funny supporting our current President Bush and his political views regarding Saddam Hussien (sp?)

-Jon

[tallmacky]

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All I know is there is a God, the one who gave us the Bible through people He chose to write His words. For the most part its finished form has not been changed through the ages, other than translated.


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What if you did not grow up in a religious setting? Would you have that gut feeling that there is a God? What if you grew up in a foreign country or with a different religion is that not God? I am not starting a argument with you because there isn\'t one to fathem, what I am saying is as you have an opinion so do I. To me calling out one religion and saying this and that off it, when it has youth and manipulation in it seems a bit egotistical and self centered (not directed towards you).

[fizzymcgee]

i totally agree with you, tallmacky. actaully i must say i agree with the past few posts.

anyways... i think you could have a feeling that there is something greater to believe in. It\'s important to recognize whether you are believing in something you have discovered on your own, or if you are believing something you were told at some point in your life. Faith in God is often faith in some person who told you about God in the first place. On the other hand, I wouldn\'t say people only believe in God because they are told to. If you lived a secluded enough life i\'m sure it\'s possible you would still believe in SOMETHING... I think the details are unimportant. Then you find some religion and you\'re like \"YEAH!...i totally feel this way.\" It doesn\'t have to mean you are doing or believing what you\'re told.

A lot of this comes down to how picky you want to be. You can tear any belief or idea apart if you really want to. That\'s why I think it\'s a bad idea to stress over it so much. The belief itself really isn\'t so important, but its consequences ceratinly are. This is how I feel anyway. I mean, YOU can feel that YOUR beliefs are important, but it\'s not worth taking down those of others if they really don\'t harm you in any way.

[fizzymcgee]

i\'d just like to add:

thank you seadove, that actually was a very interesting post. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[seadove]

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Tallmacky: To me calling out one religion and saying this and that off it, when it has youth and manipulation in it seems a bit egotistical and self centered (not directed towards you).


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I am assuming here that it is really Jason writing this and nobody else.

There are times when people, believers, semi believers or athiests, doubt the very existance of G-d.In good and healthy periods of their lives they may even ignore Him.

But, just as soon as trouble hit their lives, be it sickness, fighting a possible death or other disasters, they suddenly \"discover\" G-d, and they raise their arms toward Him and request salvation.

So you see? It is really a matter of in what situation you are at the present moment.

I personally am refraining from being so philosophical about Him and fully accept His existance.

[DaVinciKittie]

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But, just as soon as trouble hit their lives, be it sickness, fighting a possible death or other disasters, they suddenly \"discover\" G-d, and they raise their arms toward Him and request salvation.

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No offense intended, Seadove, and I\'m certainly not trying to spark a debate here, but I don\'t completely agree with that statement. All it says to me is that those people have weak convictions and maybe a lack of will or drive. People need to believe that they are part of something bigger than themselves, some grand scheme that takes into account all the negativity in this world and neatly explains it away (just MHO there). So, it seems to me that those people who \"find God\" at the first sign of trouble either 1)never really believed He didn\'t exist in the first place (used atheism as an excuse for disregarding the principles taught by their chosen religion/denomination) or 2)use their circumstances to circumnavigate taking responsibility for the situation in which they find themselves and/or taking action to improve that situation (i.e. well if I must deal with this then it is God\'s will and through no fault of my own and/or now I put my fate in the hands of God so I don\'t have to deal with it myself). I realize I just stomped all over many people\'s beliefs, and I apologize for that. I just felt I needed to respond to your comment. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[franki]

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1)never really believed He didn\'t exist in the first place (used atheism as an excuse for disregarding the principles taught by their chosen religion/denomination) or

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That is right. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (Allthough I have never been taught any principles ....)
Personally I can\'t imagine I will start to believe in God when I am old or sick. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[seadove]

DVK and Franki,

My argument was not trying to convert anyone to believe in G-d or not, and I myself am not so deep in religion,I take from Judaism what is suited for me and as for the difficult tasks in my religion I tend to leave aside. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
But if we are talking about believing in the very existance of G-d? Yes, absolutely!! My argument is IF it was evolution that got us to what we are now I would say that we would have been far, far more ugly that what the human race is today [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img], taking into consideration the so many harsh developments that occured during the million years of that same evolution.

There is no attempt on my side to convert people into believing or even not believing in G-d.The essay that I posted was of a different nature altogether.

And as for the bracketed quote under DVK\'s post,In my life I have seen people \"suddenly\" believing in the existance of G-d when sorrow or trajedy hit them.I see it all the time in my religion.

[koolking1]

Why are people typing G-D instead of God?

[seadove]

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Why are people typing G-D instead of God?



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One of the ten commandments:

\"Thou shall not take (or use) my name in vain.\"

There are many names, the correct one is Y-E-H-U-V-A, in Hebrew, YOD-KAYE-VAV-KAYE.

But he also has names like Shalom, which is one of the most popular.

Religious jews however relate to Him as \"Ha-Shem\", which means \"The name\" so as not to break His law.

By writing the word \"G-d\" is really an American way of abiding to that law, and I see it in other forums as well.

[tallmacky]

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Yes, absolutely!! My argument is IF it was evolution that got us to what we are now I would say that we would have been far, far more ugly that what the human race is today ,

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Now that is some great proof. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] How do you know Humans are not ugly, in what context are you speaking of? I bet some of us would consider a dog or a pig pretty ugly, but to themselves I bet they \"don\'t\" see it and continue to have sex with eachother. Human beings to eachother are not ugly of course, if we were what sense would that make? If God makes such beautiful beings how come some humans in our own state of mind are extremely ugly? I guess that\'s a whole new debate in itself.

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The converters can be explained. If I told you to tell me I am the best you would be like ahhh no I won\'t say that, you let me put a gun to your head and ask again I am sure I will get what I want. Those who are converting may be weaker and now can use a crutch, I have seen it with some of the most religious people around and when their problem is gone for some reason religion slips away too. Isn\'t religion partially a tool?

[seadove]

The answer is here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/tku/tku17.htm

[tallmacky]

Couldn\'t find it Ivan. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[seadove]

Brouze through that site until you get to \"The Zohar\".

But you\'d better fasten your seatbelt!!This is heavy stuff.

I opened out to you the relevant pages about parts of the human being as written in the Zohar which is one small part of Kaballah.

[DaVinciKittie]

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The converters can be explained. If I told you to tell me I am the best you would be like ahhh no I won\'t say that, you let me put a gun to your head and ask again I am sure I will get what I want. Those who are converting may be weaker and now can use a crutch, I have seen it with some of the most religious people around and when their problem is gone for some reason religion slips away too. Isn\'t religion partially a tool?

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Yep.

[Hungry]

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I opened out to you the relevant pages about parts of the human being as written in the Zohar which is one small part of Kaballah.


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Hey seadove, I thought you said you were too afraid to read it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Hungry

[seadove]

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Hungry:Hey seadove, I thought you said you were too afraid to read it!



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I was too tempted. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Great stuff here, but really I am scared. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Sexyredhead]

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The converters can be explained. If I told you to tell me I am the best you would be like ahhh no I won\'t say that, you let me put a gun to your head and ask again I am sure I will get what I want. Those who are converting may be weaker and now can use a crutch, I have seen it with some of the most religious people around and when their problem is gone for some reason religion slips away too. Isn\'t religion partially a tool?

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Yep.

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I agree that sadly, many people only turn to their religion when they\'re in some bind or another. BUT, what about those people that are living in their religion day after day, and seem to be living happy lives? What about those people who are worshipping even if they\'re going through one of the happiest times of their lives? Believe it or not, there are a lot of those people out there.

Ya know, that converter comment reminds me of that girl at Columbine who had a gun to her head and was asked if she believed in God. She knew she would be killed if she did, and yet she still said \'yes\'.

My opinion is that it\'s weak and lazy to only serve your religion when you\'re in a jam. I was taught that God loves those who believe in Him totally, not just when they really need something. Either do it totally, or not at all.

[seadove]

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I was taught that God loves those who believe in Him totally,

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In the Jewish religion this is totally untrue.In the old testiment there is a mention about G-d being a jealous G-d, but don\'t forget that the religious theory relates to the fact that G-d has created EVERYONE which also includes believers and non believers.So how can G-d love only the believers?

Furthermore, most religions talk about the judgement day.Now that is a different story altogether, but the Jewish faith believe in the reincarnation, which is like giving a person a 2nd or even a 3rd chance to repent and correct himself.

[Sexyredhead]

Ok, let me correct that. You\'re right. But there\'s another place in the Bible (new testament, I believe) that says God has no respect for \'part-time\' believers. They make him angrier than those who don\'t believe at all.

That was the point I was trying to make.

[seadove]

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But there\'s another place in the Bible (new testament, I believe)

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I\'m afraid I don\'t know much about the new testiment.I\'m having a hard time to cope up with the old one, with all the other jewish books.

But that is quite hard to believe, because as I know it, Jesus was a jew but his teachings at that time was way too liberal for the Rabbis .So I think that the teachings of Christ was liberal, lenient to the believers and also he gave enough \"space\" for repent and self corrections.

Hope I\'m right.

[Sexyredhead]

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But there\'s another place in the Bible (new testament, I believe)

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I\'m afraid I don\'t know much about the new testiment.I\'m having a hard time to cope up with the old one, with all the other jewish books.

But that is quite hard to believe, because as I know it, Jesus was a jew but his teachings at that time was way too liberal for the Rabbis .So I think that the teachings of Christ was liberal, lenient to the believers and also he gave enough \"space\" for repent and self corrections.

Hope I\'m right.

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Where from my post did you get that God is not lenient? He\'s extremely lenient. That\'s why there\'s all that room for repentence and correction.

But just as you would have no respect for someone who was only nice to you when they needed something or where in a jam, God has no respect, even though He does love all of His creations. And just like lying or any other sin, the way to make up for this is to to do as He asks, repent and worship Him even in good times, and to appreciate the gifts He gives.

[seadove]

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But just as you would have no respect for someone who was only nice to you when they needed something or where in a jam, God has no respect, even though He does love all of His creations. And just like lying or any other sin, the way to make up for this is to to do as He asks, repent and worship Him even in good times, and to appreciate the gifts He gives.


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Phew. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Well we\'re both saying the same thing I guess.

Maybe I\'d better go to the synagogue this saturday to repent for MY sins, just in case I sinned.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DaVinciKittie]

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My opinion is that it\'s weak and lazy to only serve your religion when you\'re in a jam. I was taught that God loves those who believe in Him totally, not just when they really need something. Either do it totally, or not at all.

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Exactly, SRH. That\'s exactly what I mean. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I wasn\'t advocating one religion over another or even questioning the existence of a higher power- I believe what I believe and I don\'t expect everyone to agree with me. I think we\'re on the same level with this [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] My point was, just as you said, if people truly believed their convictions then they wouldn\'t turn their backs on those beliefs at the first sign of trouble.

[Sexyredhead]

I agree with you, I think. I\'m not sure if it\'s whether they totally BELIEVE or whether they\'re more concerned about what the rest of the world thinks and are too weak to stick up for what they believe in.

But think about it. Would you want a friend that ditches you at the first sign that somebody disapproves?

[koolking1]

Seems quite a stretch to me that in talking about God in this context that we (or I) would be \"taking His name in vain\".