Penis Improvement, sort of...

[Jones]

but... who \'fcked up\' and abused a penis cream? I dont think its possible.

[Bigbadbison]

Although I think it should be legal, I think they may worry about sex. Sex with pregnant women in particular. An idoit might really cake it on thinking he will speed up gains, but be too lazy with washing it off before sex. What if he had sex every day? I do have concerns but they are minor.

That is probably the small reason. The big reason would be that big pharma\'s not making a proffit. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Bbb

[Jones]

Its possible. There are some interesting stories about the dangers of androgel. This dude would apply it to his neck but his kid would touch all the time by accident. He was 5 with a mustach and 4 inch phallus.

[TBiRD]

Well , this is what I experienced with the 4AD :


I started using it 25.7.2003 and applied it twice daily (morning + evening). I also took Saw Palmetto Soft gels (160mg extract) twice daily (morning + evening) I followed this routine up to this day (22.8.2003).

Good things happened pretty soon as described in my last post :


Things I\'ve noticed after 8 days :

-Even harder erections !!! Feels like its about to burst, absolutely rock hard ! (Interesting , cos I have a worked-out pc muscle and very hard erectons without the 4ad)

-head size has increased ALOT (when erect)

-whole penis feels heavier and thicker (both flaccid and erect)

-can\'t say if something changed about the length. The girth change is for sure , but lengthwise I\'m not too sure , I will not measure untill the end of the 3 week cycle.
-----------------------------------------------------


Now its been almost 30 days since I started using it.



...................AND................


........drums............drums.....drums.....


Bad Luck for me , ABSOLUTELY NO LENGTH GAINS !
Yup , simple as that [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Some good news though :
Head size definetly increased alot and girth increased quite a bit + its heavier - so I\'m not too sad about the result.


My thoughts on why I failed :

I think the main reason for that is : I wasn\'t using enough 4AD. MY application was : Basically making sure the whole unit is covered once with a thin layer of the lotion. I fear however it didn\'t penetrate deep enough , thats why All I noticed were girth + head gains.
- + Maybe the Saw Palmetto also hindered length gains (but thats only speculation , afterall girth increase really occured so the 4AD DID SOMETHING , maybe just not deep enough.


Now that I got my mind made up I decided to change my routine :

I will use the 4AD 3 times daily , making sure to cover the whole unit with 1 layer of lotion , waiting to soak in , then repeating 2 more times.
- I will stop the Saw Palmetto
-I\'ll also apply a tunica specific upward stretching routine
before the evening application.

GOAL = 9 \"


Wish me more luck this time , I\'ll report back in 2-3 weeks.

(Btw . Yes I know I should take few weeks of the cycle , however I will not because my hairline is still unchanged (though I noticed a little more hair falling out while on 4AD) + my prostate isn\'t swollen and the urination flow is as good as always)


Thats it guys , I hope your results are better than mine.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
(Btw . Yes I know I should take few weeks of the cycle , however I will not because my hairline is still unchanged (though I noticed a little more hair falling out while on 4AD) + my prostate isn\'t swollen and the urination flow is as good as always)


<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

What kind of argument is that? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Jones]

Tbird, nice work. Women care more about girth, so id say youve had great sucess.

Upping the dose could give you more gains next cycle.

[Whitehall]

TBird,

You might try ZMA as an adjunct. That will supply the zinc for the conversion enzymes, supposedly.

This spider bite seems to have some long term effects. The side with the bite has a shrunken testicle and my general energy levels are down as is my mood. That side aches a bit too. The 6-OXO didn\'t seem to help much.

I might see the doc again and check for damage. Of course, it could be the long hours and stress at work - both increased recently.

[CptKipling]

Ouch doesnt sound fun WH, hope all is better soon.

To everyone using the current enlargement method:

I would recomend some light PE, some gentile stretches and jelqs, and definately PC workout\'s.

[Bigbadbison]

I gave it a good 3 weeks. ~50mg/application I missed no applications. I came about 2x/week. No other sups. Light pe 2-3x/week.

No growth. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Bbb

[Sagacious1420]

Hey all-

Haven\'t visited this thread in a long time. I ran across some info about 4-AD that may be of interest. IIRC, there was concern about T aromatizing into Est and DHT. Well, according to what I was reading the other day, this should be of no concern. Based on this info, 4-AD will not convert to Est or DHT. Keep in mind that I\'m no expert on the subject, but I thought that we may get some interesting discussion started amongst those of you who are more knowledgable in this area.

Here\'s the link: click me

If this is the case, then I guess an Est blocker like 6OXO would be unnecessary. Perhaps that\'s why some didn\'t see results w/ 4-AD+6OXO? I suppose the prostate would still be a concern though, huh.

Anyway,there you have it.

What are your thoughts ppl?

[tallmacky]

It seems if the PE gel did work everyone would see some sign of it\'s working (people say the same with pheromones [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). I am wondering which is more productive jelqing or the PE gel. The Jelqing is time consuming and seems like it would also stretch my outside penile skin.

[Whitehall]

So I\'ve started another cycle using my own mix.

I measured myself first this time and was very plesantly surprised! Seven and Seven, (nice ring to it, is there not?) using the string method. Measured twice and got same results; upper root to opening along top, circumference at widest point on shaft, about midway.

My mix is:

0.9 gram 4-AD

4 ml IPM

20 ml Everclear - 75% ethanol.

Mixed and let set 24 hours before first application. Applying once a day before bedtime, starting 4 days ago. Shake before use.

So far, there seems to be some \"swelling\" but it could be edema rather than real growth but maybe that is just the first stage.

Using ZMA before bed and lypocene in the morning.

I probably should have used less IPM since is can be irritating to the skin but so far, no issue.

[druid]

Whitehall, ARE U SAYING UR SEVEN INCHES IN GIRTH? That is huge. Most of the guys at thundersplace are going for six inches in girth, and most of the guys there have a warped sense of big tallywacker/little wacker. seven inches in girth? u can kiss BJ\'s and anal goodbye!

[Whitehall]

Druid, what\'s this? You\'re looking for a date?

Actually, that\'s what I measured - 7 inches in circumference - that\'s 2.2 inches in diameter - if it were perfectly circular. Comparing that measurement to a ruler I do admit that my measurement may have been off a bit - but not too much. Note that if I were off all of 0.5 inch in circumference (to 6.5 inch) than the diameter would only decrease to 2.07 inches.

The string method is not very good for absolute, comparative measurements. I did this with the intent of trending only. One does have to understand the definition of circumference and that \"girth\" means the distance AROUND something.

Of course, it could all be true and accurate - that would explain my loyal following.

[druid]

Actually I was asking for elana. It would seem that she is too embarsed to ask u herself, so being the gentelman I am I asked for her. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Elana]

Druid you are the greatest friend a girl can have, but since when have I been embarrassed to ask about dicks? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[tallmacky]

Elana always helps any guy get an extra inch!

[druid]

When we are talking about THE 7\" GIRTH. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jones]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So I\'ve started another cycle using my own mix.

I measured myself first this time and was very plesantly surprised! Seven and Seven, (nice ring to it, is there not?) using the string method. Measured twice and got same results; upper root to opening along top, circumference at widest point on shaft, about midway.

My mix is:

0.9 gram 4-AD

4 ml IPM

20 ml Everclear - 75% ethanol.

Mixed and let set 24 hours before first application. Applying once a day before bedtime, starting 4 days ago. Shake before use.

So far, there seems to be some \"swelling\" but it could be edema rather than real growth but maybe that is just the first stage.

Using ZMA before bed and lypocene in the morning.

I probably should have used less IPM since is can be irritating to the skin but so far, no issue.




<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">





Goodluck bro. I am going on 4AD. Im going to try and duplicate my 1st cycle\'s sucess. Modified things a bit, but the core of my method is just like whitehalls. Ill report in a week, I dont plan on staying on cycle.

[shad0ws]

lypocene &lt;----- what does this improve...

[Whitehall]

I misspelled it - it should be \"lycopene\" - it is an extract of tomatos and supposedly helps with prostate health.

I haven\'t noticed any effects on my prostate from this cycle so at least it isn\'t hurting. I see it as a saw palmetto substitute although that may not be accurate.

So far I haven\'t re-measured but the organ has been noticably warmer and \"happy\" - I think the ZMA is a useful adjunct.

[Jones]

Completed my cycle. I decided to test a hypothesis. I read an article showing that the natural T peak occurs 1 week after sexual activity. Also, most of the people that failed the 4AD method were sexually active or would not abstain from masturbation.

So I did two things. I abstained from anything sexual for 3 days, went on cycle for 7 days and remained abstinent.

2 applications per day, bout 20 mg per appication. very small.

I also discontinued my SSRI, it is well documented that SSRI\'s blunt T, which is the mechanism for sexual sides people get from them.

Results were 1/8 fsl growth. (no manuel pe of course). Have not measured EL, but I assume growth, and will measure one I get some yohimbe-as I use it for a erection blood volume standard.

My conclusions are that either the abstinence or SSRI discontinuation in conjunction with topical 4AD caused growth. I believe that the SSRI probably didnt contribute greatly, however it is worth noting becuase it would in thoery cause a sustained T surge once discontinued.


BTW, my computer crashed, so I wont be on AIM till things are fixed in case anyone was wondering what happened to me.

Also, please do not take this memo as an indorsment for going off your anti-depressants. SSRI discontinuation can cause some nasty side effects.

[Ash]

Jones,

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Also, please do not take this memo as an indorsment for going off your anti-depressants. SSRI discontinuation can cause some nasty side effects.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

The taking of these Psyco drugs causes MAJOR side effects and in some cases, major problems with withdrawal. The stuff is POISON FROM HELL. When your computer gets back up do a Google and read til ya puke!

IMHO anyone taking SSRI\'s, SDRI\'s or ShotgunRI\'s should have their head examined!

They are only able to offer temporary help if they help at all! There are NO studies that show they work beyond placebo!
Below is part of a mail I sent a friend who is allowing her troubled daughter to be poisoned by this crap. God help her!

\"SSRI: Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. What that means is this. They (the Drug co\'s) know that Serotonin is the problem, or lack of it to be specific. Since they can\'t make any money selling Serotonin they came up with this Witches Brew concoction that keeps the very low and limited supply of Serotonin some troubled people have in their systems available to the brain at all times. The SSRI drugs \"inhibit the reuptake\" of Serotonin by other vital body organs that need it just as much as the brain does. The first problem is that it doesn\'t directly address the problem. SSRI\'s do not add any new Serotonin to the system. SSRI\'s reallocate the available S. supply to support the brains functions by robbing the S. supply from other organs. Since no new Serotonin has been added to the system, at some point in time the S. level drops to zero. This is not a good thing!!! Now, not only is the brains need for Serotonin not being met but other vital organs ( heart, kidney, liver and intestines etc.) needs are not being met either. And that is just the tip of the cause and effect and side effect iceberg with SSRI drugs. SDRI\'s? Same scenario with Dopamine as the target. Same thing with the ShotgunRI drugs. But, as you can imagine, it really gets ugly when you block the reuptaking of Serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine all at the same time.\"

Jones, when you get into the chemistry of what these drugs actually do, EVIL is the only word that describes them. Get off the stuff!! PM me and tell why you\'re taking it and I\'ll give you some alternatives that really work and work without side effects.

Ash

[Jones]

Well I have been forced into the library as Isabel has knocked out my power. The rain stings when the wind is that fast, it feels pritty cool.

Ok, lets not turn this into the SSRI page, but I would like to make a few points.

1. SSRI\'s are widely prescribed. They may be overprescribed. And it is reasonable to be suspicous.

2. Now, being careful is one thing, uninformed is another. You stated that there is no evidence that SSRI\'s work? This is completely false. Every prozac type drug has its own double blind study which examines the efficacy. With lexapro, I read the actual study itself before trying it. My results were exactly what many people in the study found. Less stress and anxiety and well-tolerance.

3. It is TRUE that the drug companies are making a killing, and withdrawl can been a bitch, BUT I know some girls who NEED this stuff to survive. My old girfriend would literaly go from coming on to me to crying if she missed a dose. Yes, some of that was from withdrawl, but the fact remains that they do help millions, and there is myriads of research to prove that fact beyond and refutation.

Out of curiousity, what kinds of alternatives would you endorse? I am very curious.

Here is the study I cited about T and SSRI\'s:
http://www.priory.com/psych/sexdys.htm

The lexapro study I mentioned:
http://www.lexapro.com/news/news_detail.asp?d=250

[Ash]

Jones.

Precursor loading is the alternative and the long term side effect free solution but to each his own. Good luck with your treatment!

Sincerely!

Ash

[Andy]

Ash is soooo right, nothing of importance to add. The only effects ADs have proven are their side-effects. There are many brews out there that do more harm than good, it\'s not only limited to the psychological field, but it\'s dominant there.

[Whitehall]

So I\'ve been using my mix for about 10 days and I\'ve just discovered a negative side effect - the bitter taste.

A close lady friend noted while giving me head that my penis has a bitter taste. I had applied the mix many hours before AND had spent some time in the hot tub. However, I had not washed with soap and water.

Just a warning of a potential problem.

[Sagacious1420]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
So I\'ve been using my mix for about 10 days and I\'ve just discovered a negative side effect - the bitter taste.

A close lady friend noted while giving me head that my penis has a bitter taste. I had applied the mix many hours before AND had spent some time in the hot tub. However, I had not washed with soap and water.

Just a warning of a potential problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Duhhh! I posted about that a long time ago...thus my rather sporadic application during my trial.

Don\'t hate me \'cause I have a consistant source of BJs...how is that a bad thing? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Jones]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
Jones.

Precursor loading is the alternative and the long term side effect free solution but to each his own. Good luck with your treatment!

Sincerely!

Ash



<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

I am not trying to insult you, but I could not decipher that sentance. While it is in english, Im afraid it makes no sense to me.

what does \'Precursor loading\' mean?

What is \'long term side effect free solution\' ?

I really dont understand any of that. Could you use normal english and maybe some punctuaction? Again, not trying to sound insulting.


Anyways, back on point. Prohormones do work, I have used them, millions use them, and they are \'proven\' scientifically to work.



Now, about that \'taste\' issue, its a real mystery to me. Maybe the alcohol is messing with the skin\'s chemisty. Maybe the hormones cause some change, who knows. I am sure it is reversible though.

My next experiment will be as follows. One week of abstinence, then 4AD for 4 days. Id also like to add that growth from my first experiment has been confirmed.

As far as side effects are concerned, they are minimal. How have I arived at this conclusion?

1. What we are doing is used a medical treatment for men with a certain enzyme defficiency. That artcle was posted. I have researched the topical therapy, and the combined clinical trials have thousands of members.

2. DHT was succesfully used as a treatment for male menopause is europe. I bring this up b/c Dr. Pezzi and ER physician has stated in his book \'The science of sex\', testosterone applied to the genital area converts to DHT at a high rate.

3. Androgel is prescribed to millions by DOCTORS. Since 4AD only converts to T, it can be thought of basically the same molecule with just a slightly different mg per mg effectiveness.

4. Dozens of people on the internet have tried this methed. No major side effects reported.

No sacrifice, and no solution will be found. Misinformed hippies crying about safetly piss me off-not that there are any of those people on love-scent.

[bjf]

Any updates from the guys who

tried this?

Also, what about constant applications of cops to keep T levels high, to aid growth. Someone said to

obstain from sex because it will hurt the T levels or something.