Penis Improvement, sort of...

[monesrule]

no loop huh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] well at least there is for our penises

[Andy]

How would a systematic reduction inhibitor like Finasteride or Dutasteride influence this effect ?

[monesrule]

i just order the stuff btw. i will report any gains

[Whitehall]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
How would a systematic reduction inhibitor like Finasteride or Dutasteride influence this effect ?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Great question! I wish I knew but it would be hard to tell from just one person trying it. It does make some sense.

[Andy]

Hey Mones ... take some Fin with the 4-ADerm, we need to get some info ... It\'s better to try it with Fin(Proscar) first anyway, because it will protect your Prostate from unnatural growing during the process.

[monesrule]

can you explain to me what fin is and how to get it? And won\'t saw palmetto do the same thing?

I don\'t want to do anything dangerous

[Elana]

Aren\'t Fin and Dut prostate drugs? I thought that they came with a lot of unwanted side effects.

[Andy]

Saw palmetto is a weak aromatase inhibitor afaik. Finasteride (Proscar) is a medication used to treat non cancerous prostate growth. There are many places on the web where you can order it. You might be able to get some from a website dedicated to hair loss treatment, because Finasteride is used there as well, but in a lower concentration (Propecia=1mg Proscar=5mg). People with hairloss often buy Proscar and split the tabs.

There is a chance that you won\'t gain anything with Fin, but it\'s safer to test it with Fin first, because DHT levels in your prostate will be sky high with 4-ADerm. Just think about it.

[monesrule]

wht about wht elana was syaing about side effects of them

[Elana]

You can find out lots of info on Fin and Dut on this forum

http://www.hairsite4.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&amp;forum=DCForumID5&amp;conf= DCConfID3

[Andy]

Don\'t use Duta ... it will might kill your libido with a delaying effect and has some other nasty side effects. Finasteride might! reduce your libido a little (double blind studies have shown that that\'s a psychological issue in most cases), but the effect wears of a few days after discontinued use, in case you are experiencing such.

I think using 4-AD on your dick is much more of an intrusion to your system.

[monesrule]

so Finasteride is a pill people take for hair loss? Why would it possibly make the stuff i am putting on my dick not work?

[Andy]

Finasteride was a medication to fight prostate growth in the first place. Patients that had hairloss issues along their prostate problems reported positive effects on their hair structure and even some growth gain. Finasteride inhibits the reduction of Testosterone to DHT by blocking the 5-alpha enzyme. In case it\'s really the DHT that causes the gain (I am still in doubt about that, because bald men would have to wrap their dicks around the waist in this case), there will be less to no gain with Fin. It\'s not eliminating the DHT (\"The\" is wrong anyway, because there are different types of DHT and only one is blocked by Fin) completely but reducing the amount in the system.

[monesrule]

andy -- so you think there is something else about 4-androstenediol hat causes the gain, other then DHT?

second opinion on this whitehall et all?

[TBiRD]

lol monesrule , don\'t be so f+++king desperate bout some gains dude [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Want an intelligent way of finding out whether this stuff works or not ?

Post everything Whitehall said in this thread @ PE Forums + @ THundersplace...there are hundreds of hardgainers/no gainers who will flock to this stuff like flys to [bad word] !!!
YOu will know in 2-3 weeks if it worked because hundrets will report back !!!! In the meantime you could start an easy stretching/squeezing routine , so in the end NO MATTER if the other stuff works or not you\'d have gained in size and girth , absolutely safe and 100% . Incase the topical stuff is good and has no effects on their/your prostate(s) You can STILL smear some on after 3 weeks , and DOUBLE gain ! Double win !

Enjoy!

[Andy]

It might be the 4-androstenediol itself because it\'s an androgen that\'s usually found in the system in really small amounts. It will be broken down like almost nothing else when ingested orally, because it will be turned to testosterone and other forms almost completely before it passes the liver. That\'s why it was hyped a long time among precursor supp fans. It might be a different break down product as well, but DHT is so common in the system that it\'s hard to believe that it will give you any gains, at least not on his own.

[monesrule]

i have\'t been to a penis forum, so i never would have thought of doing that.

it is not a bad idea, but i don\'t doubt whitehall that it works, so it wouldn\'t be of much benefit to me. I\'m just trying to find out what the stuff i am taking (including fin) does to my body internally. that\'s not being desperate about some gains, that is being smart.

I was thinking of doing the exercises you have been posting about along with the spray, so i can get off this stuff as quick as possible

[Whitehall]

It is certainly possible that other steroids than DHT cause penis growth. I can only state that standard medical opinion is that it is DHT that does the job and DHT has been prescribed to do the job because it works.

I suspect that DHT-preventers like proscar probably will block some or all of the local growth effect of topical 4-AD. I could be wrong but that\'s my guess. Saw palmetto seems more prostate-specific and seems to have other mechanism(s) of action compared to proscar - that\'s why I recommended it.

Male pattern baldness is the product of scalp DHT levels times follicule DHT receptor sensitivity. Some men can have high DHT levels and their scalp doesn\'t react so there are two independent variables.

Encouraging a mass trial is a little cagey - I\'m willing to share my experience with forum members who are in general knowledgable - giving it out to the world is something I don\'t want to take responsibility for.

[Andy]

Sure WH,

You have to have sensitive hair follicles to experience hair loss from the DHT, but in the end you know that bald people have high DHT levels [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. The DHT level is lowered throughout the whole system with Finasteride. But I just read that it works only a short period of time after ingestion. That means, it will lower the DHT level, for example, during the first two hours after ingestion and they raise up afterwards again. You have to take it always at the same time during the day (preferably in the morning) to lower the overall level. This should render the effect workless when correctly timed.

[Cloud9]

would a natural estrogen blocker like 6-Oxo by Ergopharm help while taking 4-ADerm?

[Andy]

It would inhibit the aromatising of Testo to Estrogen. I am not sure if it plays an essential role because effects like bitch tits and such shouldn\'t be a big issue while using such small amounts of a topical solution.

[Whitehall]

What I know for certain:

1) a topical 4-AD solution applied to my slong for 3 weeks, twice a day caused a noticeable growth in length and girth

2) neither my head hair nor my pubic hair fell out

3) my prostate didn\'t show any immediate problems.

4) if you try this and something untoward happens, its not my responsibility

Your results may differ.


What I THINK is:

1) the 4-AD converted to testosterone which converted to DHT locally

2) DHT is responsible for the tissue growth

3) the penetration enhancers in the commercial 4-AD preparation aided in the transdermal absorption

4) ZMA might help in the conversion in 1) above

5) saw palmetto might give an added degree of protection to one\'s prostate during 4-AD treatment

6) proscar and the like might prevent local conversion to DHT

[Cloud9]

I thought Testosterone also causes cell repair/growth?

[Whitehall]

There are tissues and there are tissues. Different stuff causes different tissues to grow.

Testosterone and other anabolic steroids cause MUSCLE to grow. Human growth hormone can cause your hands to grow. DHT causes your dick to grow. Jello makes my finger nails and toe nails grow. Masturbation causes the hair on the palm of my hands to grow. Beer makes my belly grow (phytoestrogens in the hops.)

[monesrule]

I emailed who i bought it from (you can find that info by clicking whitehall\'s link on page 2 of the thread recommending the best topical stuff).

Here was the response:

Do you recommend taking anything for the prostate with this 4-androstenediol ? I expect to take it in a small area for 3 to 6 weeks.

Answer:
4AD isn\'t going to be hard on your prostate unless done for long periods and high doses (over 12 weeks)

[Cloud9]

beware frequent masturbators...you might grow bodily hair like robin Williams if you don\'t cut back!

[Sagacious1420]

Hey Whitehall,
I checked that link you provided for the 4-ADerm. I noticed that the directions call for 5-10 squirts, twice daily. However, no mention of how much area this dosage is intened to cover. Can you or anyone who has used this product provide some clarification for me on this matter. Also, it said to used 2 weeks and take 4 weeks off.
WH- you say you used it for 3 weeks w/out any probs, right.
MONES- you mentioned that up to 12 weeks should be fine w/out any probs. Was this from the manufacturer or the website selling the stuff.?
Thanx all

[monesrule]

one of the guys from the site emailed me that my order was sent out. very god customer service, i never even contacted them. i replied and asked that question. I think because pople use it for their muscles, the area must be huge, like chest, arms, legs, etc. Now granted I a huge down there -- that\'s why i am getting this stuff -- it is still can\'t compare to the surface area of someone using it for muscles.

[Cloud9]

Saga..., Prohormones like 4-aderm should be taken in generally 4 weeks cycles max so that your own body\'s production of Testosterone doesn\'t become weakened permanently or shutdown because you are getting it from an external source than your body\'s.. generally 4 weeks on 2 weeks off is a first cycle.

[Cloud9]

did some researching...check this out www.actionlove.com/cases/case9800.htm