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  1. #1
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    Default Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

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    I caught this off my football message board, thought ppl here might find it interesting...

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />

    Here\'s a few reasons why I think women in the workplace has helped to destroy our country...

    Finances
    The reason it\'s so hard to make it on your own is because of women in the workplace. Think about that very first onslaught of women coming into the workplace…the companies had to “make room” for them in their payrolls…but weren’t producing more goods…that’s dependant on supply/demand. So…in order to fit them into the workplace…some men were let go…laid off…not hired…and raises were not as prevalent. Then…women demanded equal pay…even more cuts were necessary. It used to be that a man could get a job and it would pay enough to take care of the bills…or close to it…now, it’s hard for even two people to make enough money to pay the bills. And because there are fewer jobs for the men…you end up with households not making enough to get by…

    Nuturing
    Women aren\'t at home fulltime anymore. Kids aren\'t getting the nuturing they need at the very early stages of development and we\'re ending up with desensitized kids who have very little regard for human life, much less common decency. The wife is now working fulltime while the children are spending most of their day at daycare/babysitting. The children aren’t learning and reinforcing the family values or morals that would normally happen because they spend so much time away from the family...in essence, our kids are being formed by daycare and schools...and I touch on schools later in this post.

    Nutrition and Health
    When the wife finally does come home...it\'s around the same time as the husband. Both are tired from a long day at work...and now have to share the duties around the house. There\'s no hot meal on the table when the husband gets home...so what ends up happening? Usually either parent throws together a quick meal that really doesn\'t cover the essential food groups needed for development. So...mornings...everyone is rushed to get going...no real breakfast is happening...lunch is served to the kids by daycare/babysitter (usually not all that healthy or balanced) and dinner is thrown together or worse yet...fast food. And do the parents have time or energy to go outside and be with the kids? What example is being set for the kids...you end up with lazy, lumps that stay indoors all day watching TV because their parents never seem motivated to take them outside anymore.

    Gender Roles
    Because both parents are working...both end up having to share the load of responsibilities at home. This actually helps continue this ridiculous cycle our nation is now in...the kids don\'t learn what their gender roles are anymore. We end up with boys acting like girls and girls acting like boys and a terrible mix inbetween.

    Household Duties
    Don\'t underestimate household duties. It takes work to keep a house going properly...once it\'s up and running...it\'s just maintenance and whatnot...but it\'s still work. Cooking alone can take up a good chunk of the day...add in laundry and cleaning...and your day is almost spent. Add in time spent with the kids...teaching, nurturing, etc...and that\'s a full time job. However, in today\'s society, both parents are trying to fit in the time to do the laundry and other duties when they get home after work...so...we end up with usually a half-azzed job. The floors aren\'t getting mopped, the holes aren\'t being patched and hems aren\'t getting sewn...regular dusting now occurs during spring cleaning only...dishes are piling up for days. Cleanliness is falling by the wayside...no wonder kids get the sniffles a lot nowadays.

    Time and Energy
    Both parents are tired from the workday and end up spending their time trying to \"catchup\" on all the chores and whatnot. So...they come home...and start working some more...then...hopefully find time for family meal...between chores and the meal...it\'s almost time for the kids to go to bed. The parents don\'t feel as motivated to help the children with their homework as is necessary and have truly not spent any quality time with each other as a family...it\'s just been all work. Weekends are spent catching up on whatever didn\'t get done during the week...usually entire days on the weekend is for laundry and folding. Forget ironing...does anyone know how to iron anymore? Add in any extra activities that the kids are involved in with school/sports and no ones had any time to take a breath.

    Gender Roles - Part 2
    So...because most things have to be accelerated or half-azzed in order to finish in any reasonable amount of time...the girls in the family never learn those wifely duties. The boys certainly aren\'t going to sit down to learn how to knit, sew, cook, shop, clean, etc...and who would teach them? The father has no clue really and the mother doesn\'t have time or didn\'t learn from her mother because she didn\'t have time to do it right either. So...it continues to cycle. Then...the girl grows up...gets married to a man who has no clue what he\'s in store for...a dirty house, no food and wrinkly clothes. He ends up taking on duties in order to get them done...figuring it out as he goes...the marriage is strained because both are always tired and there\'s no time to be romantic.

    Divorce
    Goes without saying...however, as I said before...since both partners are now working harder...it puts unnecessary strain on the relationship.

    Work Production
    I’ve found a great many women are wonderful workers. Give them tasks and they’ll perform…however, as soon as they move up in management…there becomes a problem. They now have to delegate, manage and work with other managers…what usually ends up happening is almost reminiscent of high school. A bunch of little clicks that don’t like each other and are pissed because someone didn’t say “HI” the right way. Grudges are held and secrets/rumors start to fly. Whereas, if a man has a problem…it’s usually expressed right then and there…a fellow co-worker pisses you off…you say, “Hey man…do that again and I’ll bust you in the lip” or whatever method it takes for you to express that you’ve been wronged…women on the other hand, hold it in…more like let it fester until some rivalry begin. What about pregnancy? Women get pregnant…you end up with months of slowed production and months of them being completely gone from the workplace. Can’t be good for production. What about men and women working together? Like it or not, but men are distracted by women. It’s not their fault…I’m just saying it’s a reality. You get a nice looking woman on your floor and men will become distracted…never mind the guys who end up falling for a woman in the workplace…he won’t be able to think straight no matter what happens.

    Schooling
    When women were only allowed something like three jobs…one being schoolteacher…it afforded our children the ability to be taught by the best teachers. However, you open up the job market to women and who wants to be teachers? They become anything but teachers, in fact. It used to be that in order to be a teacher, you had to be one of the best at it…because there was such a wealth of teachers to choose from…but now, the teaching profession has almost turned into a safety net. Meaning…if I can’t make it as a computer technician, lawyer, etc…I can always become a teacher. So…our kids end up being taught by whomever the schools can coax into halls.

    So…in the end…what do we end up with? Kids who know learn very little, are not nurtured enough, have very little family values, which don’t eat well being taught by people who should be janitors…who grow up and marry someone just as dysfunctional and ill-equipped as they are…and endless cycle.

    Now…before anyone and everyone gets all upset with me…I’m talking in grand generalizations here. If you’re a teacher…I’m not saying you’re an awful teacher…you might be one of the few that is great at his/her job…I’m just saying on the whole…the product has gone downhill. And women…before you get mad…think about it…especially if you’ve got kids…how many times have you wished you didn’t have to work…so you could stay home with the kids. Bet you wished your grandmothers didn’t burn their bras and march so vehemently for jobs. For those few women who are finding a way to make it all work…bravo! More power to you…this is not a post about you…it’s again, about our nation on a whole. Don’t quickly label me a sexist pig and dismiss what I’m saying…take a moment and see how women in the workplace has, in fact, affected our country negatively. Sure, there are wonderful positives…women can now become anything they want to be…individually…however, on the whole…the American household is falling apart because of it.

    Now…go ahead and blast away…debate at will…

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    I\'ll post an interesting reply in a moment...

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    I didn\'t look at any non-economic posts in the thread, but here\'s my economic theory of women in the workplace:

    Whether you are a Capitalist or a Marxist you will agree that the capitalist will pay labor exactly the amount it takes to get labor to show up and do the job. This labor cost will be effected by supply and demand principles, as well as by the minimum wage requirements, ie, what needs must be paid for to make it worth a worker\'s while (housing, food, clothing, health).

    The employer will pay the rate that the minimum requirements and labor market dictate. The employer will pay no more than these things dictate. Instead, the employer will pocket any extra money as profit.

    As individual worker productivity rises (due to better training, division of labor, machines, computers) the employer still pays that minimum rate for labor, and thereby is increasing his profit - The added value the laborer adds to the product does not go to the laborer, but instead trickles up to the employer. As time goes on and technology develops, more and more added value trickles up to the employer.

    Through the 1960s it was the social norm for only the man to work. For that reason, the employer, in order to get the male worker to continue showing up, the employer had to pay enough for the worker to be able to afford all the things that were the social norm. Thus, a single worker was paid enough afford a wife and 2-3 kids, a family car, a house in the suburbs, etc.

    Once the women\'s lib movement started and consequent flood of women into the workplace had two very bad consequences for labor. First (for the Capitalists), the supply of labor shot up, with no increase in demand, leading to lower relative prices. Second (for the Marxists), the minimum payment for workers was cut in half, because rather than having to support an entire family in one worker\'s wages, the employers now only had to support 1/2 of the family\'s costs for each laborer (because both the mother and the father were working).

    Once it was firmly established that women were in the workplace, it became very difficult if not impossible for a single middle class person to support an entire family on his salary, because the market calls for that salary to support only 1/2 of a family.

    So I think that for the laboring class as a whole it was a terrible mistake for women to enter the workplace. Now that it\'s happened, the only solution is a worker\'s revolt. It need not be violent, but it does need to be unified, with worker\'s universally only sending one adult per family to the workplace, or each adult in a couple only working half time. That\'s the only way to take back some of that excess value from the employers.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    That\'s a good post bivonic, most people have a hard time understanding things a bit, evolution has evolved the man to be the one who goes out and seeks works and earns what he needs to feed and protect his family, thus men have evolved phsyical traits along with mental traits that already give them an edge on actual \"work aka job\". This is no b/s hatred or hype just the facts. Women were crafted to be more domestic, take more wanting in raising children, maintaining the order of the \"house\" making sure everything is ok, being vigiliant and the backbone and mainlink of a family.

    This is how we were developed, of course we are not and should not be tithered and categorized as only being able to do this and that, in this day of age how we are living a women can handle mental based job as a lawyer very well, I am not sure how they rank with men but it seems to be irrelevent, women are not disabled from doing things outside their \"realm\" at all instead it may just feel a bit unnatural or be a bit tuffer. Men imagine going shopping every day and loving to be around kids, or perhapes a man who wants to be a figure skater, and most men who enter life style or jobs which are considered for women happen to usually be guess what gay? Nothing wrong with that the point is in theory their brains are hardwired like a womens would be, maybe a women in a mans body to a certain extent.

    So we are designed for these roles whether we like it or not too bad I guess right? Now can a women compete men within a sport like basketball, soccer and so on? Hell no sorry bit its quite simply not even likely, its actually far from impossible and then they wonder why no one wants to watch the WNBA hahah. No one cares even women don\'t really care. In another job field besides atheletics, firefighting and so on I think women can do fine and bring new ways of thinking and ideas to the table, as good as men? I don\'t know maybe I doubt it sometimes or not at others.

    I believe it is a certain type of women who wants to be a very hard worker such as a high paying corporate exec. and so on. Some say that homosexuality among women in these type of once thought of \"man\" jobs has risen I say its just more of a homosexual female\'s type of behavior to want to \"hunt\" after a job like this. Some women these days want to try to have it all and its complete bullsh$t. I have heard of some women in a rush who go to sperm banks to have children and treat them as accessories.

    In my opinion we are all in essence without society fully evil. Children when they are born and are young are very evil, greed, inflicting pain on others, intolerance, name calling, they act very badly if not disciplined if a kid comes home ever day to \"fun world\" with no parents or anything they are then expected to raise themselves, and how do you think they will do on that? Unlike racism, religiousism (does that exist) or other prejudices, your sex actually has meanings and reasons behind it. I think the mold needs to be broken, if I was a women and wanted to work I certainly wouldn\'t want to deal with crap, and would expect to be allowed to be a lawyer and so on.

    We cannot say we aren\'t equal or are but we are different

    Now that\'s my 2 pesos and thanks, Bivonic got me thinking.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    this is very odd because earlier today I read an article in newsweek that had me pissed off like crazy and it realtes with this post very well.

    the article was about the upsurge in \"stay-at-home-dads\" (or as I call them extreme beta males) and once I tell you some of the stuff in the article you will agree with me. Some guys were forced into because our country (the \"good-ole\" USA) is being downsized, outsorcedm and sold to the lowest bidders, and these guys don\'t like it. I mean these guys were kinda forced into this postion because they were laid off and haven\'t been able to find work. I feel for them and hope they can very soon resume their roles as provideres. Then there are the guys who voluntarily stay home and wash the dishes, cook the meals, vacuum, etc. I mean these guys basically traded in their balls and di-k for a frakin apron. AND THE WIVES WORK FULL TIME AND BRING HOME THE PAYCHECK. I mean how beta can you get. I won\'t even call that beta I will call it what it is : voluntary sissy-ification. I mean one guy from the article is the leader of a fu-king browie group for god sakes. One woman hopes her husband never returns to work.

    Think this doesn\'t affect men? throughtout history we were the beard winners, now we are forced to bake it. switch up gender roles that took god knows how long to form and look what happens. the world is a fcked up place, and the US is no exception.

    I have heard serveral theories for this. Personally I think it is femisism, which is why I can\'t stand it. Never in all of histroy until now (the last 40 years or so) have women tried to control men (and make so much progress). One of my favorite people from online (gunwitch -- from ASF an extremely hardcore person) explained it so succiently. He thinks that in the 60\'s during the vietnam war, all the aggresive males went to fight while all the betas stayed here and let the sh-t storm brew. i think he was right.

    Now flame me, call me an arsehole, an ape, a chavuanist (sp?), whatever. say I will never get married (and have it last) and if trading in my balls for an apron is what it takes to make a marriage work then I won\'t be able to make a marrige work.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    nice druid you are acting like a tallmacky hahah.

    I agree these guys are very very very beta, they have very light voices and remind me very much of a guy who is very close to being gay(not saying there is something wrong with that). I think women naturally may enjoy power(for other reasons) more then men. Women love it during the attraction game and must really love it in the real world. I think it has also to do with the unfair way women are treated in our society as well. I think women are treated on day to day basis far better then men its pretty sick. I remember one of my teachers yelling at an unrully little bitch in class and the next day he bought her a cupcake and said he was sorry, must girls get away with doing and saying almost anything that they want, this along with the allowing for women to have power is another main cause in my opinion. Women have climbed this latter so fast that I never ever hear anyone mention during a job interview or anything that hey thats a women at all but all you have to do is put racims or religiousism in the mix and that is still a issue (though smaller). Women may have been limited with getting a job etc.. but they always got the royal treatment, especially the hot ones heheh. Guys who are the betas and raise the kids I am sure the women have no sexual attraction to at all! I bet they are at work screwing some hot guy or a girl(I could be off on that)? Then again men are said to have done this (I wouldn\'t) but men must have always been sexually attracted to their wife. At this point we are wired in our roles as man and woman I think alot of the taboos and of the traditions (middle-eastern not showing female face) are just fuc#ing stupid. I am a thinking liberal, that means I don\'t just shout out things cause I want to look righteous at all. I don\'t believe in old tradition, I mean I can understand the hating of someone else based on minor differences, but male and female roles are not minor differences.

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    Default USA?

    Bivonic,

    Prepare your a$$ for a thorough flogging from our female comrades. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    However, inspite of the fact that I don\'t agree with these thesises, why does the title refer to women of USA alone?Are you insinuating that to other countries they do no harm?


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    Default Re: USA?

    Personally I like women in the workplace. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think it is nice to have a mix of women and men.

    I grew up with an at-home dad and a working mom. It worked out fine, although it is not ideal.

    Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Personally I like women in the workplace. I think it is nice to have a mix of women and men.


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Bivonic\'s essay does not have a personal preferance of likes and dislikes.I\'m pretty sure that Bivonic also prefers mixes of men and women as co-workers, further than the fact that he prefers women in his office, sort of a hunting ground for him. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    His argument, as an issue, was if working women were good for the USA or bad.

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    Default Re: USA?

    Well, that why I wrote the second paragraph of my post. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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    Default Re: USA?

    All i want to say on this is that I think there should be a parent (or grandparents or someone else) who spends enough time with children. And I don\'t mean a Kindergarten etc. but a person that is REALLY there for them.

    Whether that is a man or a woman is relatively unimportant. Allthough like in my situation it is said that it is bad when there isn\'t a man working, because there is not a good role-model for the male child ....

    Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Personally I like women in the workplace. I think it is nice to have a mix of women and men.


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Bivonic\'s essay does not have a personal preferance of likes and dislikes.I\'m pretty sure that Bivonic also prefers mixes of men and women as co-workers, further than the fact that he prefers women in his office, sort of a hunting ground for him. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    His argument, as an issue, was if working women were good for the USA or bad.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    To be honest, I find this discussion rather boring, I would rather talk about the Middle-East. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] j/k

    Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Franki:To be honest, I find this discussion rather boring, I would rather talk about the Middle-East. j/k


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    In Israel, my friend, the women are the ones who have the real balls, if you know what I mean. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Israel is the only country in the Mid East who corporates women workers regardless of the type of work.Just the other day I had a puncture in the right rear tyre of my car, and who do you think fixed it?

    That\'s right, a man [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Got you , didn\'t I?

    Seriously speaking, women workers are just as capable as men, and maybe sometimes even more than men, to do an honest job.

    Are you bored? Then why are you yawning?

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    \"In Israel, my friend, the women are the ones who have the real balls, if you know what I mean. \"

    Didn\'t know there were that many trannies in Israel. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] j/k

    Now that I think of it, wasn\'t the winner of the Eurovision Songfestival/contest a few years ago an israelian woman who had been a man before ?

    Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Now that I think of it, wasn\'t the winner of the Eurovision Songfestival/contest a few years ago an israelian woman who had been a man before ?


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Sssssssh, not so loud! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    Every country has it\'s own handycap. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    BTW, he, she or it, is otherwise known as Dana International. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    Hey Seadove, we both deserve this week\'s Bin Laden trophy for hijacking a thread. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Now Elana has to tell her story about the IDF and men and women showering together ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Now Elana has to tell her story about the IDF and men and women showering together ...


    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    This item has been brought up in the forum more than once.

    I can assure you, guaranteed and endorsed, and also from first hand knowledge since I have family of both sexes serving in the army,that such an incident DOES NOT HAPPEN in the Israeli army, and if it does it is considered as a fellany resulting to imprisonment for both the sexes.

    So whoever posted that fact, IMHO, posted it out of horniness and wishful thinking.

    I\'m sure that Elana knows all these facts too.

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    Default History vs. Reailty

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Bivonic,

    Prepare your a$$ for a thorough flogging from our female comrades. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    However, inspite of the fact that I don\'t agree with these thesises, why does the title refer to women of USA alone?Are you insinuating that to other countries they do no harm?



    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    People can make all of the generalizations or jump to any conclusions that they would like, but I find it pretty hard to refute these statements:

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    Through the 1960s it was the social norm for only the man to work. For that reason, the employer, in order to get the male worker to continue showing up, the employer had to pay enough for the worker to be able to afford all the things that were the social norm. Thus, a single worker was paid enough afford a wife and 2-3 kids, a family car, a house in the suburbs, etc.

    Once the women\'s lib movement started and consequent flood of women into the workplace had two very bad consequences for labor. First (for the Capitalists), the supply of labor shot up, with no increase in demand, leading to lower relative prices. Second (for the Marxists), the minimum payment for workers was cut in half, because rather than having to support an entire family in one worker\'s wages, the employers now only had to support 1/2 of the family\'s costs for each laborer (because both the mother and the father were working).

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    Think of this more of a history lesson then a \"bivonic thinks women shouldn\'t/can\'t work in the office place alongside men\" I know women are absultely capable of performing at high levels. Although I will say there are a few things that are going against them. When women reach a high level (management / executive) their social behaviors are different then men (generally speaking) and when someone does something that a woman might take offense to (professionally) she is more likely to hold a grudge, let it build up inside &amp; to deal with this person indirectly. Conversely if you put a man into the same position he is more likely to be direct &amp; make sure the person at fault is well aware that he/she was in the wrong &amp; the matter can be addressed, forgotten &amp; everyone can move on with being productive. Lastly not to sound sexist but maternity leave cannot be that productive in an organization, especially small businesses I don\'t know how they cope. I used to own my own consulting company &amp; I can say from experience if I had someone take 3-4 months leave for child bearing it would put a serious drain on my company\'s cashflow.

    I think the point the original author of this thread was trying to make is not that women do not deserve to work alongside men at certain levels nor that women are not capable enough. I think the point he was trying to make is how the influx of women into the workplace greatly diminished the demand of labor &amp; consequently shifted the economics thus requiring dual income families since a single middle income husband would find it very difficult to raise a family.

    I\'d also like to add that the introduction of cheap foreign labor (H1 &amp; H1B visas) into our country performing technical professions at costs much less then what skilled labor in America was getting paid (they are happy making $10-15 an hour compared to the $40-55 an hour the same position previously paid) seriously hampered our technical professionals earning ability.

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    Default Re: USA?

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    If you are walking on thin ice, you might as well dance\"

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

    You are walking on this ice, bivonic, so start dancing.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: USA?

    I\'m not blaming our current economy on the foreign labor market but I saw first hand how my consulting company of 8-10 workers on a project were replaced by a workforce of 25-30 indians that our client literally imported, got H1 visas for, found &amp; paid for housing in Westchester, paid them a ridiculously low salary &amp; worked them like they operated a sweatshop. Not to mention they outsourced the QA of the project to other indians overseas at similar salaries if not lower salaries (to entice them to come to America). Then they had the audacity to ask our help in managing their teams of programmers, which we reluctantly did, only to be confronted with the way they do things in India in an arrogant tone &amp; a bunch of conversation amongst themselves in a language I did not understand while we are trying to troubleshoot problems they introduced in the software my company originally wrote. They were impossible to manage, when we had to ask the client to intervene it did no good - they wouldn\'t listen. We had to abandon the project since the client could not see the value we added or at least was able to justify our rates to have a smooth running operation (with open communication lines).

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Re: History vs. Reailty

    Bivonic:

    Read your history, women have been a large factor in the workplace since world war I &amp; II. They were part of the workforce during some of the greatest economic booms and downturns.

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    Default Some Notes

    Feminism started out as some French Communist (Simeone Bevoire?) fantasy but caught on with a few US writers in the early 60\'s. It got some support from the doped-up, \"Radical Chic\" generation during the 60\'s when women found a form of violent protest they could call their own.

    It stalled there until a few of the radical women grew up a bit and realized that they had something to sell to the power structure. Gloria Steinem and crew started making the rounds at the Ford Foundation and their irk who realized the economic benefits to Corporate America that a flood of female job aspirants would mean. Soon (early 70\'s) the Eastern Liberal Power Structure was pushing feminism big-time. They almost got the Equal Rights Amendment passed but cooler heads prevailed.

    The economic theory presented in the top post is attributed to Karl Marx and is called the excess value theory of labor. I\'m a through believer in capitalism but realize that Marx was oftimes extremely insightful in his critique of capitalism although his prescriptions were idiotic.

    Now too many women of my generation have this meme planted in their heads that caring for their children, their home, and their husband is demeaning and a wasted life. I know, I made the mistake of marrying a couple. Now, I\'m hostage to the current one\'s treatment of my children.

    The big losers have been the children. In a normal family, one mother (and maybe additional grandmothers and aunts) take care of a single brood. Once you put the mom into the workforce, the kids go into daycare. Where before it might have been one adult to two small children, in the concentration camps (sorry - day care center!) it can be one minimum wage adult caring for 10 or more kids who aren\'t hers. No way the quality of rearing improves in such a situation unless the mom is loony.

    I\'ve also been a single father. I know from personal experience that mothers are wired to be mothers and a male can\'t really replace that. Corporations and leftist intellectuals just say that\'s not their problem.

    The real issue is that the elites in America over the last 30 years have failed the American people in so many ways. They\'ve tried to destroy our sense of cultural bonding by pushing \"multiculturalism\", they busted up our family life through feminism, and diluted the economic value of our labor. People are finally realizing this and hence the turn toward neo-conservatism.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    BTW, thanks for finding and posting this!

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    Bivonic,
    I agree with your post to a degree.

    It\'s not pc to think like this and I know I am old fashioned, but I\'ve been there and done that - so, I\'ve experienced what I\'m talking about.

    Here\'s where you\'re right:
    -the kids
    -the lowering of salaries
    -the stress
    -the beta male being a turn off

    Here\'s the misconception:
    -men can do a better job

    Women can and do work circles around men (remember that I\'m not a gender freak). You want something done correctly, promptly, and efficiently? Get a woman. I don\'t know about women vs men in abstract processes or physical labor. Men might rule there.

    Also, I don\'t think this is exclusive to the USA.

    My opinion only.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    biovionic is 100% percent right about what is going on in tech. h1-b visas are ruining our tech sector. With the next several years pakistan and india (most likely china will have a piece too) will be the new silicon valley. And guess what else-- all the stuff stored in large DB\'s (your online purchases, driving records, student records, bank records, and things of that sort) are gonna be in the heartland of jihad. And the american tech worker will be holding a sign \"Will debug for food\". Because lemme tell I have programmed with some pakistanis and indiains and bivoic is right -- they won\'t admit to not beaing able to do something. Your divding up the project and say \"can you make a script to do this?\" and they say yeah, then egg you on when you need the script then at the last minute you find out they ain\'t done sh-t and well you stay up all night....

    I have a degree in computer science. I KNOW unix, java, c/c++ and a few scripting lanuages and I can\'t even get a fu-king interview.

    ---

    I agree with lucky I think women are just as capable as men (i wouldn\'t say they are more capable -- I have know too many women to say that) except maybe physical labor like digging ditches, but the argument is that the working woman have ruined our family structure and therefore our country (or more generally western civilation). I men women can work OR women can nuture children/home but not do both. This have it all mentality is complete BS. Men can\'t nuture, so if men AND women are working who is doin the nuturing? Answer: No one. Look at the news and see what happens as a result. Kids killing kids. Kids having kids. Kids doing drugs. The list goes on and on......

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    There are tolls that have to be taken, women should be allowed to work, at first stuff will just be out of order and not what is considered \"desirable\" but we are all working and living here for ourselves but also for the greater good of the world, discrimination goes back a long way and the steps those in the past took have eased and helped life today much more.

    I never thought a women could not do a job as good or better then a man when it comes to mental related, when it comes to phsysical like Firefighting of course I question that.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy USA

    Everybody has their skills and strengths. Women are better at some things than men and the reverse is true as well.

    Men can nurter and a good father does. Why do you think you have daddy\'s girls and mommy\'s boys. They need that love and acceptance from the opposite sex, it\'s part of what helps them develop into a whole person.

    During the earliest years, a child needs a lot of attention but by time they are three or four, they need to start being socialized by being around their peers. That\'s how they learn to get along with each other. Generally a child who has been in daycare does far better in school, both socially and acedemically than one who has not. But once they are home, all children need the influence of both parents.

    IMO there are a lot of mistakes made in child rearing. The biggest being the lack of consequenses. Ever see a parent that simply yells and never punishes? How does the child behave? How about the parent that tries to reason with a two year old? Have you ever noticed how often the children seem to be in charge of the household? The reality is that when these little kids grow up and get out into the real world, they have no clue that they can and will be punished for their actions.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy

    Only thing with women in the workplace, its easier to find a storeroom and if you are horny, find a horny woman, pull her into the quitespace, pump her full get youre rocks off and the hassle of seduction is gone. Easier for men all round i say.

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    Default Re: Why women in the workplace has helped destroy

    Sounds vaguely like changing the oil in your outfit. But without the passion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Some Notes

    </font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
    The real issue is that the elites in America over the last 30 years have failed the American people in so many ways. They\'ve tried to destroy our sense of cultural bonding by pushing \"multiculturalism\", they busted up our family life through feminism, and diluted the economic value of our labor. People are finally realizing this and hence the turn toward neo-conservatism.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">


    Absolutely right!!!...By the way, neo-conservative is an elitist term. Fashioned to remind people of neo-nazis.
    So drop the neo!


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