Preconscious Influence (very long)

[nonscents]

Bivonic has started multiple threads about various seduction techniques. Responses tend to be polarized along the lines of: “yeah this is an addition to my armamentarium,” or “just be your geniune authentic self and express your love and you will attract the prince(ss) of your dreams.”

As I’ve said elsewhere, I have not used any of these techniques. But I feel I have a duty to myself to educate myself as to the nature of these techniques if only to protect myself against those who might wish to manipulate me with them.

My concern in this thread is the use of sub- or preconscious techniques to manipulate others. Things like embedded commands “FEEL THE hapPENIS INSIDE”, the use of anchors, the self-pointing, trance induction, etc. I would like, in this thread, to abstract from the moral considerations. I think the moral considerations are very important. We once had what I thought was a fascinating thread on the moral implications of phermone use. It was a discussion that needs to be reviewed more often. But with these preconscious techniques I would first like to hear the “hit reports” so that we can gather data to find if they have any efficacy.

I am surprised that so many are so quick to write these techniques off. They seem to have much in common with phermones. Most of us who use pheromones use them stealthily. We feel that they have the effect of attracting people to us, without the targets knowing why they are attracted to us. We use them precisely because the pheromones have a preconscious effect.

If I use every opportunity to take my shirt off outside so that women can see my ripped abs, and I notice that this gets me a lot of attention from attractive women, I assume that women consciously chose to express their attraction to me because they were self-aware enough to recognize that I had ripped abs and they knew of themselves that they like ripped abs. Their thought process is: \"1. ns is a man with ripped abs, 2. I like men with ripped abs, therefore 3. I like ns.\" If you asked a woman I attracted what she sees in me, she would answer, “Ripped abs!!!”

With mones it is typically not the case that targets say I am attracted to ns because he smells good. The reports I read suggest that targets feel there is an I-don’t-know-what about the mone user that attracts them. So it is preconscious.

By the very nature of this venue, forum participants are comfortable influencing others preconsciously. Shouldn’t we all engage in a little systematic inquiry to understand other methods of preconscious influence? If they are all a bunch of hooey, good for us for finding out. And if they can be used effectively, good for us for finding out.

I remember reading once about a class that was told to smile and nod every time the instructor moved to the left, and stare sternly when she moved to the right. By the end of the class the instructor was teaching from far in the left corner. Behaviorism doesn’t tell us everything that is important about human behavior, but it has its moments. You can say it’s just common sense and that people have been rewarding and punishing others as long as there have been people. But it took Watson and Skinner and others to develop the theory. I am glad I know when others are trying to manipulate me with behaviorist methods.

Do preconscious methods work? Inquiring minds want to know. Has anyone used these methods? If not, let’s start trying them out in trivial ways. Don’t use them to get laid at first, but maybe we could start by doing things analagous to the students who got the instructor stuck in the corner. Can we consciously set a goal of, for example, getting someone to touch their ear? I don’t know. But if mirroring works can we pace and then lead someone to touch their ear? Obviously we’d also have to track how many people touch their ear when they are not led to do so. But if we put our minds to it we could come up with a protocol. We all try it for a week. Then come back an report our results.

Clearly ear touching is a trivial behavior. But so is hair flipping. Let\'s establish whether this stuff works or not. If we can establish that it works, we can then determine our moral beliefs with regard to its use and the other ends to which it could be used.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Im wondering if this could be NLP nonscents is using in his post. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Having been on the receiving end of many of these techniques ... I\'ll say again - they might work on young, inexperienced women. They don\'t work on women who\'ve been around the block even once. We can see this stuff coming a mile away. If a woman wants to have sex with you, she will, unless you say or do something to make her change her mind. If she doesn\'t, she won\'t. And if she\'s on the fence, standing around ape-ing her every gesture and prattling about hapPENIS is just gonna make her think you\'re weird. I\'m saying this from experience on the receiving end with the NLP guys with the trance-inducing voices. <rolling eyes>

[Watcher]

Those under 28 would be affected and seduced but those over forget it, good for us 22 - 23 year olds that get laid with this dumb chicks and also with pheromones its perfect.

[Icemone]

Hi Fulltilt, all,

LOL I\'ve actually chatted with many other Hypnotists/NLPers, some of whom
are attractive women and MOST of this does
work WITH Women ( not \"on them\" because they have to participate and have a life/libido ) and
ONLY WHEN done with great skill and NOT in an exaggerated way ( or in the ever-dreaded \"trance\" voice :O that
we are still training out of some )

Also, those heavy handed examples ( HaPENIS )are BeLOW ME! and are the \"free\" and over the top \"small chunk\" teasers to get Men to learn more and are not what
real seduction is about. Something so much bigger and better.

Since you are so Adventurous and helpful,
I\'m curious, how fun it would be
for all of us, if you and other Women here, were to
post a small list of :

1. What would help a woman to want to sleep with a man...

2. What would make a woman NOT want to sleep with him, or would change her mind?

And we can do the same for you ( most Men\'s lists are simpler----if she has a pulse, if she is there, LOL
Some of us want and expect more )

[CptKipling]

Thats a really bad way to put it.

Age has little to do with whether they will be susceptable or not. Yes maybe less intelligent girls, but any girl who has any common sense will see whats going on very quickly, even if she has only seen it once.

Think about it (general coment), do you think you are gifted in some way because you could pick out the NLP parts in some of these posts? Well you\'d be wrong.

[Lutz]

So NLP doesn\'t work? (i.e. is it a hoax?)

[CptKipling]

No its not a hoax

But you have to have a very good understanding of it and be very good at it to get the results you see on ASF etc.

Its only every good for girls only suited in the first place to one night stands, slutty ones to begin with.

I think you would get results if you just approached these girls and talked to them with confidence. NLP is just something to hide behind, something to allow you the confidence to approach and talk.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Icemone, my answers to your questions wouldn\'t mean much because they would be so subjective. And, begging your pardon, I would prefer not to read a Men\'s list, but thank you for offering to reciprocate. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

If you have any interest, do a google search, Top Six Soul Mate Clues, which is an article about astrology of relationships.


Inevitably, when I feel an immediate and compelling attraction to someone such that I\'m ready to have sex with them that very minute, it is borne out when I look at our astrological charts. In the case of SDR, for example - we were having sex within 15 minutes of meeting each other, the only previous contact having been two brief telephone conversations. We\'re coming up on 3 years now together. We have a Sun/Moon conjunction, a Moon/Venus conjunction, a Moon/Neptune conjunction, my Lilith and his Eros, I mean, it just goes on and on. Any one of those aspects and you could predict an attraction with good confidence -- but so many of them together, and it\'s pretty much inevitable. You just need to get the two people in proximity and it will happen.


I think this degree of astrological compatibility is something you can feel from across a room and that you recognize immediately in your body - you sense a mate. Maybe because their particular pheromone signature pings in your system.


Because we\'re each unique, it\'s virtually impossible to say what one person will find compelling and what another will not.


Which is why I continue to come back to - get in touch with who you are as best you can, and enhance your individual qualities, whatever they are, because those are the very things that will trigger response in whoever your potential mate is, e.g., don\'t try to be cocky/funny if your personality is serious and intense. There\'s a woman out there who\'s looking for serious/intense. If you\'re busy acting cocky/funny, she won\'t be able to see you. Use pheromones to amplify, not disguise or radically change, how you come across. Presenting a false front, while it may help you in the short term, can only work against you in the long run. I worry that if you get in the habit of presenting a false front, you become dependent on it. I feel you practice a degradation on yourself with the idea that you have to present a false front in order to be desirable. It would seem to me that that kind of thinking would do you more harm than good in terms of your development of self-esteem and confidence in ability to interact well with other people.


Right. That\'ll teach you to ask me a question. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Icemone]

Hi Fulltilt,

Nice post and I was joking about the Men\'s list because it would be very obvious [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I also don\'t advise anyone to hide behind a false front and Hypnosis and NLP actually help you to know yourself
better and take more control of your life.

P.s. Your Astrology/Compatibility aspect is fascinating and I\'d like to learn more.

The last woman that I REALLY cared about
and still want to have something more serious with
is an
Aries April 18 She will be 27
and I was born Dec. 8, 1968 at 12 noon.
Any chance this could work out? Or what signs are most compatible with Sags
( I think I read Pisces, yet I seem to
always attract Capricorns, Scorpios, Gemini\'s and the one recent woman was a Cancer sign and it was NOT a good date )

Thanks,

[Elana]

FTR read part of my chart. It was totally mind blowing. Not just a little on....dead on. This was stuff that would NOT have \"worked\" for anyone that read it. It was custom for me.

[Lucky]

Listen to FTR, she really knows this stuff.