DHEA for young guys

[druid]

I am thinking of taking DHEA (for the fat buring effects). I know a lot of brands recommend 90 mg every day. I think that is too much for as I am only 23 y/o. I already take ZMA (also what is the best formulation of ZMA??). I am thinking of a small dose, like 5mg every other day. What do you guys thinnk? What are the possible negative side effects of DHEA use in younger guys? Also anyone know where I can get DHEA with a 5mg dose, seems hard to find. thanks.

[Whitehall]

You\'re close to your peak lifetime production at your age - I do NOT see any reason to supplement DHEA. Never heard about \"fat burning\" and suspect it is a bogus, or at least unsubstantiated, claim.

You might try pregnolone, precursor to DHEA, instead. It has some legitimacy to claims about enhancing memory. Even that is weak.

[CptKipling]

It is actually supposed to increase metabolism, which would explain that claim.

This is just a WAG that I\'m throwing in here, but if you suppliment over the maximum that your body has ever been subjected to (which is actually as a baby), you will be ok as long as you are living healthily and getting a lot of exercise.

[MAL224610]

I had an intresting thought, What I know about prohormone usage. If you use an oral pill of 4-AD with another item like a 1-test/4-ad \"skin cream\" then the oral 4-ad would be more likely to bind with SHBG allowing for more free test, wonder if the same would hold true for DHEA, But then again if test is not needed DHEA is more likely to break down into estrone..

I will reiterate what the others said at 23, DHEA is most likely not needed

[DrSmellThis]

spend money on other fat burners, not DHEA. save it for when you age. I think supplementing long term now would be possibly bad for your adrenals/testicles due to possible feedback effects.

[Wolfe]

90??..good lord dude, i\'m 54 and taking 10mg a day is plenty even for me. i was using 25 and cut them in 1/2 to get the 10/12 r so i get now. and i\'m still seeing the results happen.

[druid]

I saw on a website they were sellin 90 mg capsules and they said 1 capsule daily. I guess they were talking about old timers.

Don\'t want any of the fat burners, I tried hydroxycut but it didn\'t work. Guess I will go with the way I KNOW works. Atkins induction and more cardio.

[Wolfe]

i\'d be very afraid of takin a 90 unless i was 70+ and by then who needs it [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[PHP 87]

Does DHEA convert to DHT?

I\'ve heard that it does and that DHT is what causes hair loss.

[Mtnjim]

\"i\'d be very afraid of takin a 90 unless i was 70+ and by then who needs it\'

So true, I had a friend who lost his wife at 94, he never took DHEA, and said he \"got it\" regurlarly up until the end.
Unfortunately, he died in November, just a couple of months short of 100.
Even just before he died, he didn\'t want a girlfriend over 40.

[marv14yag]

Zinc Magnesium Asparate.

And, I don\'t think DHEA is going to burn much fat...Unless you are on a stack don\'t expect fat burning to happen stack of (steroids).

I take 25 mg of dhea a day, and I can tell there is a testosterone increase, and I do recover MUCH MUCH QUICKER!

Bart

[DrSmellThis]

I reiterate -- health side effect start at 15mg and up from studies I\'ve read (prostate trouble at 15mg).

What I haven\'t seen is a chart matching average doses necessary to have optimal DHEA levels for different ages.

[proteus]

7-Keto DHEA is a good alternative to DHEA. Supposedly same effects as DHEA without the side effects that come from DHEA use. I practice martial arts fairly religiously as well as do weights every so often so I find it helps with recovery and definitely helps with building lean body mass.

[Phantom]

7-Keto DHEA is much more expensive though [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Cloud9]

I wouldn\'t recommend DHEA until your 30+ I\'ve herd a lot on that comment.

[Watcher]

If concerned try a ZMA supplement instead (zinc and magnesium) the precursors to DHEA and the other androgens that become pheormones upon sweat onto the skin.

[CptKipling]

For those interested, here is a graph i posted a few months ago.

www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif

Take note that the largest quantity of DHEA in the blood is just after birth.

I am going to start using low doses of DHEA shortly, combined with ZMA

[Phantom]

Report the results!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[druid]

ZMA is good stuff

[Tantalus747]

I\'ve never seen any research to support DHEA for weight loss at low doses. As far as I know, results have only been seen at very high doses, and those studies were done on highly obese individuals. Not the type of person just trying to slim down for summer.

On the other hand, I know of at least one study that showed promising results for 7-keto DHEA at a 200mg dose. I\'m not going to take the time to look it up, but I\'m sure you can find it online if you look.

[Tantalus747]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
This is just a WAG that I\'m throwing in here, but if you suppliment over the maximum that your body has ever been subjected to (which is actually as a baby), you will be ok as long as you are living healthily and getting a lot of exercise.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Sounds like you\'re saying there\'s no such things as too much DHEA. Would this apply to other hormones? I hate to think of people taking unlimited amounts of testosterone or estrogen in the belief they\'ll be fine if they exercise and \"live healthily.\" (Hard to imagine taking large amounts of extra hormones when you\'re not deficient as living healthily.)

Just because something is OTC doesn\'t mean you should take it lightly.

[Tantalus747]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
For those interested, here is a graph i posted a few months ago.

www.naples.net/~nfn03605/evolut1.gif

Take note that the largest quantity of DHEA in the blood is just after birth.

I am going to start using low doses of DHEA shortly, combined with ZMA

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

For what purpose? According to the graph (if it\'s correct, I read some other things on that site &amp; the author makes some pretty wild jumps in logic based on data that sometimes is questionable in the 1st place), you\'ve not even reached the 2nd peak. (If your profile\'s age is accurate.)

[CptKipling]

I\'m not in it for the fat burning, I don\'t need to be, but thats not the point.

RE your 1st quote:
I wasnt saying i was going to try it, or even that others should. I was tossing ideas around, which is why I said it was a WAG (wild ass guess).

RE your second quote:
for what purpose? I want to see if my phero output is increased. I also want to see if it allows me gain muscle mass more easily. A third reason is that I\'m thinking about giving my grandad a natural boost, but im currently leaning towards just ZMA (or just separate Zinc and Magnesium sups., as finding a cheap supplier to the UK is proving tricky).

[druid]

captain make sure if you get sep zinc pills that they don\'t have some calcium in there. but I buy twinlab ZMA for about 17 bucks a bottle, which IMHO is a great price for a supplement THAT actaully works. I mean I spent about 40 bucks on some creatine, and look how much other people spend on creatine. And creatine is complete garabge IMHO. I mean you piss out like 70% of the stuff. And if it does work all it makes you do is retain water in the muscle cell. How does that foster new muscle growth and/or strenth gains?

[druid]

oh yeah. there is no way I would take 200 mg of DHEA a day, no matter what the fat buring effects are. just go with the way I know works. low carb and some more cardio.

[Tantalus747]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
And creatine is complete garabge IMHO. I mean you piss out like 70% of the stuff. And if it does work all it makes you do is retain water in the muscle cell. How does that foster new muscle growth and/or strenth gains?

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Short Answer:

1. Creatine regenerates adenosine triphosphate (ATP). This is the primary benefit to creatine. For this reason, creatine increases energy, power output, and enchances muscle size and strength.

These other benefits are secondary.

2. Creatine increases the amount of water in muscle cells. By doing this, the amount of nutrients shuttled into the cells is increased, aiding growth and recovery.

3. By increasing the size of muscles (through increased water content), biomechanical leverage is improved, causing an increase in strength.

If creatine hasn\'t worked for you, try taking it 20 mins before a glass of fruit juice to spike your insulin levels.

Oh, and if you\'re pissing out 70% you\'re just taking way too much.

Btw, $40 should have bought about 2 kilograms of creatine -that\'s about a year\'s worth even at a high dose - if you don\'t know the right places to buy online, you\'re paying too much.

[druid]

i have tried the stuff but it didn\'t do much for me. I will give it another go.

[CptKipling]

Actually I found some 15mg tabs in the house. It has some vit C, but I guess thats ok.

[Tantalus747]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
i have tried the stuff but it didn\'t do much for me. I will give it another go.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

Oh, I should have mentioned if you\'re vitamin E deficient creatine may not work as well. But if you\'re taking a multi, that should be enough to keep you from a defiency... but vitamin E is good enough that it\'s worth taking it\'s own pill.

I also read at least one person who said creatine wasn\'t effective for them on an extremely low fat diet, but started working when they added flax oil. As far as I know, creatine and essential fatty acids arn\'t linked in anyway though, so that\'s questionable IMO.

Lastly, there is supposed to be a group of creatine \"non-resonders. Just a small percentage of the population who creatine does nothing for.

However, if you\'ve not tried taking your creatine 20 mins prior to fruit juice, it\'s certainly worth trying. (This is more effective than taking creatine &amp; juice at the same time.)

[druid]

well i don\'t have to worry about the fat thing. I think the whole idea of a low fat diet is complete BS. I am pretty much low carb, but i do generally take in some high gi carbs after workout.