Hi all. I\'m new here, and I\'ve been following Wilde Oscar\'s data gathering with interest because I\'ve been doing something similar to him, but instead of focusing on the cost per ml I\'ve been looking over all the past history and determining what a \"successful\" dose is for each product and the product\'s pheromone concentration. I\'m doing this in hopes of getting the dosage right to start out with (I just got my first set of toys this past week, three days after the order. Great service!)

The results are pretty interesting, and I think provide a guide for product usage. I\'ll spoil the surprise and say that it appears the \"ideal\" dose is about 0.020 to 0.030 mg of pheromones. It\'d be great to get data on androtenone and androstenol separately, but this is all I had to work with.

Anyway, let me know what y\'all think of this.

First of all, let\'s define the units for applying the pheromones.

We have dabs, drops, and sprays. Note that the viscosity of the solution and the type of applicator can change the size of these units (a drop from a fine syringe needle and a drop from my fingertip are very different in size). I\'m using my finger as a \"standard\" here \'cause that\'s what we all use in real life. To measure the units, I used a calibrated 1 milliliter syringe to measure what got dispensed onto my finger or cap.

Dab. This is where one wets the fingertip by holding it over the bottle mouth and tipping the bottle. This was hardest to measure, it comes down to being about 0.01 ml, and no more than 0.02 ml. Measured with a bottle of AE.

Drop. A full-size, free-falling drop from the fingertip measures 0.05 ml. Note that this leaves a partial dab on the fingertip after the drop falls. Measured with a bottle of APC.

Spray. OK, I\'m sure this varies widely, but I measured the spray from my bottle of The Edge into the plastic cap. It\'s 0.13 ml.

---

At this point, I looked over all the past messages looking for dose and \"hit\" reports (and overdose reports, too.) I also calculated (like Wilde Oscar) the pheromone content per ml.

Here\'s the \"consensus\" dosing I uncovered for several products:

The Edge (TE): 0.12mg/ml. one or two sprays.
Alter-Ego (AE): 0.45mg/ml. two to four dabs.
Primal Instinct (PI): 0.5mg/ml. 4 dabs, 1 drop, 2 drops.
Andro 4.2: .14mg/ml. two sprays.

Using the unit measurements from above, and doing the math:

TE: One spray = 0.13ml * 0.12mg/ml = 0.016mg/dose
TE: Two sprays = 0.26ml * 0.12mg/ml = 0.031mg/dose

AE: Two dabs = 0.02ml * 0.45mg/ml = 0.009mg/dose
AE: Four dabs = 0.04ml * 0.45mg/ml = 0.018mg/dose

PI: Four Dabs = 0.04ml * 0.5mg/ml = 0.02mg/dose
PI: 1 drop = 0.05ml * 0.5mg/ml = 0.025mg/dose
PI: 2 drops = 0.1ml * 0.5mg/ml = 0.05mg/dose

Andro: Two sprays = 0.26ml * 0.14mg/ml = 0.036mg/dose.

---

What\'s this all mean? Notice that we\'ve got a range from 0.009mg to 0.05mg, and that it appears the \"preferred\" or recommended dosages are around the 0.02mg range, +/- a few mg, regardless of the products used.

I did more math and message reading, and the overdose range appears to start around 0.04mg/dose. While there\'s some reported major hits at 0.05mg, I think they\'re the exception. There\'s more reported negative hits above 0.04mg than positive 0.05mg hits. Note this is in keeping with the warnings about not using more than one drop of PI.

Note that two sprays of jambat\'s 70/30 APC/NPA mix was reported to be hit-producing, and works out to about .032mg/dose, so this math works well for predicting success with mixes, too. A combinations such as two dabs of AE and a spray of TE puts us at 0.028mg/dose, the high side of the \"hit\" range (but maybe not if we deduct the \'stenol as a different pheromone.)

Interestingly, APC alone, with a supposed content of .05mg/ml (I had a hard time finding data as well Oscar) would require about TEN drops to 0.025mg/dose. That\'s a lot of drops -- but it also consistent with a message reporting hits when there\'s an APC \"overdose.\" On the plus side, it\'s unlikely you\'ll OD using APC. Sounds like with the new APC, you\'ll not OD if you dump the entire bottle on yourself.

In summary, it looks like the target range for delivered dose of pheromones is about 0.02 mg, with a top end around 0.032 mg, and past 0.04mg, you\'re probably OD.

Note that as the stuff wears off, a 0.05mg OD could drop into the high-end hit range.

To help out, whenever you report a hit, please mention what was used and how much (so no one has to ask) and it\'d be nice to know how long it\'d been since you applied the pheromones to let use start to control for that, too.

Scientist

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Scientist ]

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Scientist ]

[ September 05, 2001: Message edited by: Scientist ]

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Scientist ]