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  1. #1
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default DHEA-S Need to Knows

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    I\'m too lazy to write an article tonight, so here are some semi-loose thoughts I\'ve been meaning to post for a long time. I apologize in advance for any minor scientific inaccuracies. I\'m too tired or not proud enough to edit it, and it\'s too basic and important to delay posting any longer.

    DHEA, as we know, is the most plentiful steroid hormone in our bodies, and is produced by the adrenals.

    DHEA-S is the most plentiful androgen in human sweat -- not A1, not -none, not -nol.

    most of DHEA is NOT converted to -rone in men. Most stays as DHEA, in the form of DHEA-S

    DHEA-S is where DHEA is stored until it\'s needed. Tissues that need it easily convert it back to DHEA. Much DHEA-S ends up being excreted through ourr pores.

    If it stays as DHEA-S, it won\'t be converted to testosterone or estrogen -- hence, few problems with hair loss or breast development in men.

    Perhaps 90% of DHEA in our bodies is in the form of DHEA-S.

    DHEA in our blood easily converts to DHEA-S in the presence of biologically active sulphur, mostly through the liver.

    MSM is an extremely bioavailable form of sulphur, available in supplement form. Sulphur is extremely plentiful in the human body, but is easily destroyed in food through processing. I believe most of us could benefit from supplementing with it. It is so safe you can take it by the heaping spoonfuls without adverse effects. It is almost food-like. It plays a part in the synthesis of virtually everything in our bodies.

    I believe DHEA-S is definitely a pheromone, whether or not it acts like -nol or -rone, or takes the same path through our systems. I think it is the equivalent of a musk base for humans. It smells very erotic.

    DHEA-S, per se, is only available by prescription. I think it doesn\'t matter.

    I very strongly suspect that we can let our bodies make more DHEA-S by taking MSM with DHEA. I take 3 grams for every 10mg of DHEA. Works for me. I feel better too.

    When I take DHEA and MSM I get more hits, with fewer T or E side effects. I\'m pretty sensitive to this sort of thing.

    I think too few of us take advantage of this opportunity.

    Cutler/Athena was right abot DHEA-S being a pheromone. It is the mother of all -mones.

    The skin easily converts DHEA to -none, -rone, and other pheromones.

    However it is a waste to apply it topically, when it gets to your skin anyway, and when you can eat it at a fraction of the cost, obtain other health benefits, and get a phero effect in about an hour.

    Negative DHEA side effects start showing up at about 15mg (prostate). I keep it to 5-10mg/day.

    Here\'s a good scientific link!

    http://www.naples.net/~nfn03605/?pid=2756&cob=home

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Good Stuff Doc!

    A few Q\'s.

    -------
    When I take DHEA and MSM I get more hits, with fewer T or E side effects. I\'m pretty sensitive to this sort of thing.
    -------

    what are the T or E side effects you mention?

    Do you take pill or sublingual?

    I have some sublingual spray that outputs 12.5 mg\'s I only take it sparingly once every few days, does that make sense? Or would you recommend a 10mg pill daily. I don\'t know too much about MSM but I\'ll check out your link.

    TIA!

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Is this true for women too, or is this advice for the guys only? Here\'s a link I found on MSM: www.dazer.com/msm.jspI\'m going out in a minute and was stopping by the health food store anyway. Think I\'ll pick some up.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    This stresses something I thought to be true, however, I never stressed it....The DHEA being stored somehow.

    Because, when I take it, but don\'t work out, it doesn\'t seem to do ANYTHING (smell OR tesosterone surge) (I even sometimes randomly get adrenaline and tesoterone surges, sersiously, last like up to 5-10 seconds).

    However, whenever I work out, or anything that world require teststerone it\'s MUCH more amount of it, and when I sweat it is VERY potent.

    (Oh, on the side, I\'m taking like 2,000mg of vitamin C to keep from overtraining, vitamin C is used to help to maintain epinephrine and nor-epinephrine...I suppose if you are taking DHEA it will help to support them at the higher levels, probably explaining the teststerone surges).

    But uh, that\'s not bad, I mean, when you think about it...You only use it when needed....If you are trying to get a girl (I don\'t knwo about others, but I get testerone raises) It\'s been shown that looking at porn and things raise a men and women\'s testosterone levels...

    So, whenever you need the testosterone it\'s \"burned up\" as I would say, really I suppose would mean that it is used up before it can mess with anything... And, not only that, but only using testosterone when you need it would help you to focus. It\'s very hard to focus with all the teststerone.

    In fact, from tests I have read on DHEA it seems that black men and women have higher levels of DHEA when at the age of learning, which is about 6 years old, until 6. They are also the ones with less IQ...Which would correlate why tesosterone interferes with learning and why also women are on average smarter than guys (however, guys get more grants, jobs, etc because higher testosterone levels are present (this is from stuff having nothing to do with pheromones, they just correlate it with tesosteorne).

    The same thing the DHEA does is what happens when you work out.

    In fact, they have shown that many bodybuilders (not on steriods) and powerlifts have testosterone levels MUCH MUCH lowever than those of normal people. How is this possible if they are all big and they can lift all the weigh they do. This is because very little is released UNTIl they lift it all, it\'s a natural adaption to save up until you need it...(Which goes into the hippocampus deal, I\'ll get into that in a second).

    Now, it\'s also been found that that a person un-fit (aeroblcally) after a session of running will release LESS endorphins, tesosteorne, other hormones, etc, WHILE running, however, AFTERWARDS there\'s more hormones going on AFTER than there was before. So, in a graph it would APPEAR as though there\'s a short spike during the activity and an even LARGER spike that peaks and comes down about 15 minutes afterwards. Which, endorphins being released more afterwards would appear as though the body is trying to keep from feeling pain from the activity.

    Now, the fit person (aerobically) after running (I believe this was down with like a 20 minute run, etc.) will follow a different pattern, going from instead of releases most of their endorphins in the middle of the physical activty. So it would look more like a perfect triangle.

    Now, as for the hippocampus, which MAY go into the tesosterone theory of less, but more when used is that, when intense exercise is done by individuals, the hippocampus part of the brain, that controls learning and processing of information is DOUBLED! Yes, DOUBLED!, lol, this is completely scientific stuff right here.

    So, to cap it all off, the less testosterone you release WITHOUT phsyical activity the less side effects you have with testosterone to estrogen conversions, and with women it would be the opposite. You would have less testosterone to keep you from learning (which, MAY GO ALONGW WITH WHY THE HIPPOCAMPUS DOUBLES IN SIZE!!!! Which, by the way, is for all age group, this particular study was not done with only older people which, would probably nee dthe physical activity to help sustain themselves, keep them healthy.

    Not only that, but think about it, you are focused, etc, however, whenever you need it (depending on where you live, New York, L.A. etc,) to fight...But, also in stressful situations more hormones released are better, however, if everything is going good, the opposite is true, ie, being able to handle yourself better under pression and control yourself in stable situations.

    In addition, another thing I\'ve always thought but had no scienfic theory to back it up came from plain EXPERIENCE. However, from what I understand, DHEA is not readily released, but rather stored. I beliefve the body can only store so much. I believe that after this limit is reached, you will mearly piss the rest away. However, a lot of the time, your PEAK is never reached, no matter WHAT age, in fact, a fellow in adolescence, I beleive would have an even greater peak to fill with the DHEA, which is why I take it despite my age of 17.

    The obove would GO ALONG with the tests done that show that, even in high doses DHEA is never directly aromatized.

    I think that\'s about it.

    Along with MSM, Glucosamine and Chondroitin are also a part of that for cartilidge and collagen. Glucosamine will do something like creatine to increase cartilidge. Chondroitin will help to protect the existing cartilidge.

    I do not believe MSM directly does anything RATHER it gives you what they body NEEDS. Now, this has never been a problem for me, because I eat a lot of eggs, etc. I believe that foods that are meant for babies have everything you need. An example, is eggs, milk, etc.

    Do you know why they say that eggs are the best thing for a dog\'s coat, shine, skin, etc?

    Eggs contain a lot of MSM, due to not being processed, and as I said before, the stuff in eggs are the nutrients needed to devolop a healthy chick (or, girl eating eggs... nice healthy chics...Damn, I like chics..) Anyway...

    What do you think that stuff is that keep the yoke together? Ah, and, not to metion there MUST be a lot of MSM if it\'s going to keep the egg together in the inside instead of just being a big GLOOP.

    I eat 2 eggs ever morning and I have at least 3 glases of milk a day.

    Point in case, I BELIEVE, that\'s all you really need to know about it.....Oh, and what that means too is taking more DHEA won\'t do a d*mn thing which WOULD go along with my own personal experience of 25 mg doing nothing different than 200 mg and up.

    Other than that, I think the only way you can keep healthy is to get enough calcium (which not only PREVENTS but also REVERSES cancer). There was a study done in 13 different places with people living over 120. The common denominator was that ALL of them where MUCH above sea level, except, for one, the Okinawa Japans...The other common denomiantor was that they all get over 200 times more calcium than the normal person, the Okinawans get it from the Coral Reefs, which is said that that calcium is almost 100% absorbable, compared to other forms (ie, milk is like 6% and Tums is like 2%.) And, the ones in the mountains, etc, woudl get their calcium from the mikly water of the glaciers.

    Also, your DNA cannot work unless smothered in calcium.

    Calcium is used in more functions in the body than ANY other mineral.

    Calcium could also go along with the reason why (aside from the fact that caffeine acts as an enzyme in the PLACE of AMP energy (closely associtated to ATP) caffiene releases calcium from the body to be used. The way that your MUSCLES contract is that they use calcium inbetween the microfibrils of the muscle fibers to contract, the contraction puts leverage on the bone, just like a sea saw. (This is why some people, also can lift more even though they do not have as much muscle, becasue the muscle is placed closer to the joing, being able to be used better for leverage ( A test can be to raise your forearm to 90 degree as flexing the biceps, in the space between the start of the biceps and the inside crease of your arm, if you can fit 3 in there, you don\'t have very much potential for strength as others, 2 is normal, and 3 is VERY VERY good.) ) I myself, can fit 3 fingers inbetween easily, hoever, I ALWAYS make up for anythign genetic with pushing harder, whether it be mentally, phyiscally, etc. (People have said that my eyes look liek they are bleeding, pop out some when I bench, and my whole body turns red, not just the face, the wohle d*mn thing.)

    Now, back to the topic of the caffiene, the point in case is that, the caffiene acting as an enzyme would help delay fatigue which, is proven by other studies, however, also, the release in Calcium can also be used to state why you can lift more and would also help with the ability to keep going even though you don\'t feel tired.

    There are 2 examples for that; the frist one is where, you are not feeling any lactic acid build up whatsoever, however, you are very tired and you do not have the energy to go on (the caffiene acting to fill in as an enzyme would give you this energy (aside from it\'s thermogenic and stumulating drug properties), now, the second example, is where you have a lot of energy, however, it burns really really bad, and is hard to go on. This is where a release of calcium would help, it will still burn, however, you will still be ABLE to keep pushing.

    That all is just proving the effectiveness of callcium right there. And, to prove the second example with the burning but able to keep doing. We do burnouts where you do the bar, just once, put 5# on each side, do it 2 times, another 5 on each side (at that point you take of the 5 on each side and put a 10# weight on each side) and do that 3 times, and so on. I do not train for endurance, it still burns, etc. And, I am not the strongest. However, me being able to realease more hormones, and having a lot of calcium to do, at that PARTICULAR time, I was drinking over 3 glasses of milk a day and also supplementing with a HELLA LOT of calcium supplements also. I did more reps than anyone else, no matter who had the endurance and stregth, Yeah, it hurt, probabliy more than EVERYONE else BECCCCAUSE I didnt\' ahve the endurcance and strenght, but I was able to keep going even though there was the pain, where others could not...

    I think I wrapped it all up right there...D*mn, I want to see how long this looks in the forum, lol...

    Bart

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Yes FulltiltRedhead, MSM is used as the connective material in hair, nails, skin, joints, making you look more healthy, giving you better skin tone, and keeping your much more flexible. MSM is appliable as much for women as that of for men.

    Bart

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Ok, Bart, what about the DHEA, though? I bought both.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

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    Is this advice good for the women, too, DrST?

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    MSM is not necessarily safe. It has been shown (through MRI) to accumulate in the brain.

    DHEA is definitely not safe in large doses. 10-25mg/day really is about the most one should take, except for specific medical conditions. Very aged people could take up to about 50mg.

    BTW, I\'ve experimented with DHEA-S (I was able to get it because I\'m a researcher) and have not noticed any effects.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    You REALLY think you\'re all that don\'t you, like you KNOW abou it huh!

    I didn\'t post all that just so you could REPEAT all that, lol....

    Duh, I already said that anything over 25 mg won\'t do anything more. In fact, the YOUNGEr you are, the MORE you would take if anything...How much you already have is neglible; the potential to store isn\'t...

    You want to know WHY it isn\'t safe dip sh**! Because, it\'s not...Some stupid a** publishes a d*** study to say it\'s not safe because that\'s what people will listne to...It\'s sfe...lol, it\'s not going to aromatize.

    You\'re like one of those d** personal trainers that think you are all that because that\'s your job...You do it to get paid!

    That\'s the SAME reason why the news always shows people getting killed....It\'s what people want to hear (yes, people WANT to hear people getting killed) (Oh, and, if you don\'j bleieve me, just say so, I can argue a WHOLLLEEE debate about that...but, the fact remains.)

    Just in like 1980 or whatever, half of the DRM Calcium was said, and anything after it the FDA or whoever it was said it was \"toxic\"! I\'m SICK of people saying, oh, no this is bad, and this, and so on! lol

    Accumulate in the brain? That doens\'t MATTER! Unless it affects anything. For all we know the accumulation of it in the brain would help it function better. I mean, look at the purpose of it..I\'m suje it\'s used in brain cells.

    That\'s like someone with ostearthritis eating it, and when it accumulates in the joints people say, it\'s accumulated in the joints, it\'s not good for you!

    I\'m SURE they are goign to find taking creatine is stored in the barin, because, yeah, creatine IS in the brain, and the heart! That\'s like the notion that steiords make a bodybuilder\'s heart bigger and give you high blood pressure!

    Duh!!! STeroids make the body produce more red blood cells, and more whatever that thing that picks up oxygen is too! Last time I checked that\'s GOOD!

    Unless you have some kind of heart problem, lol.

    Thats what Vitamin E does too!

    That\'sa what people want to hear, that\'s what sells. That\'s what people believe. People are moved by emotions, guilt, fear, etc. So, when youy are told, such and such is bad for you, lol, you BELIEVE IT!

    You do what you want...I\'ll belive someone with more common sense than to say everything is going to hurt you...

    I respect Dr. whatever his name because he has good stuff to say....You are tought by some d** professor something, or it\'s part of your job description, it was TOLD to you, and you just take it for what you have said...I have no respsect WHATSOEVER toward that...lol

    Next thing they\'ll probably say is that SEX is bad for you! HAH!

    Bart

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    T/E refers to testosterone/estrogen conversion. Side effects are noted above.

    I take pills to maximize the liver\'s role, but I think sublingual at 5mg or less is good for breath and other effects, such as testosterone conversion.


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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I guess the question of whether DHEA is good for women to take to enhance their pheromone output is something I can just research on my own.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I see no reason why not. Women metabolize DHEA differently (producing different proportions of metabolites).

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I have MSM at 500mg each capsule and DHEA at 50 mg per capsule ... how much of each? Take with food or on an empty stomach or does it matter?

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    well, seein as how the brain has tons of collagen, and seein as how MSM helps synthesize collagen, we want MSM to go to the brain. Next to hydrogen, oxygen and maybe carbon, sulphur is the most plentiful element in our bodies, I think. We\'d need to know more about accumulation in the brain, how long it stays, effects if any, and the conditions for it, for starters, before we could draw any meaningful conclusion about any dangers.

    MSM toxicity is ridiculously high, from what I\'ve been taught by my nutritionist -- it\'s measured in % of body weight.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I talked about daily dosages in my first post.

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    I saw. 3 GRAMS of MSM to 5-10 mg of DHEA. Just double checking. I couldn\'t find any capsules at 5 mgs or 10. Is the proportion critical, do you think?

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    http://www.puritan.com/scriptsp/start.exe/puritan/mainnew.html

    -- for 5 and 10mg tabs.

    Just an educated guess...wanted enough MSM to minimize undesirable conversions, to keep a maximum as DHEA-S in my system.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    thanks

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    XVS -- You experimented with topical DHEA-S. Even Cutler states that takes weeks to be effective that way. DHEA, naturally in your body, doing it\'s thing, and being excreted in sweat is probably different. I\'m not saying I know why I think DHEA-S works as a practical pheromone. To be sure, it is being converted to other things that actualize the overall effect.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    bivionic, I didn\' fully answer you...

    I prefer taking 5mg at a time, after the biggest meal and upon arising; and sometimes an hour before a date.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    marv14yag, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, energy, and interest. I value your knowledge, too, and want you to be able to be a member of the forum for a long time.

    But please don\'t verbally abuse others in my thread. It might be helpful for you to realize they are just trying to help out the best they can. It\'s boring when everyone agrees. I appreciate XVS sharing that helpful information.

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    I\'m excited about the MSM for hair, nails, joints. The guy at the health food store enthusiastically recommended it, said he takes it, and even uses a soap with it and sees a difference from it. The soap wasn\'t sold at that store so it wasn\'t like he was endorsing a product for his own gain. This guy was quite a specimin - beautiful skin, hair, clear, bright eyes, pretty teeth. I want to guinea pig this on myself to see if maybe it would help my mom get some energy back and not have so much joint pain.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    The actor James Coburn swore by it for his arthritis.

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    Oh, god, I hope it works. I have a friend at work who\'s using a cane now, her arthritis is so bad, and my mother is plagued, even in her fingers. Thanks for the tip, I\'m definitely pursuing this.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    have her combine large doses of MSM with glucosamine/chondroitin(available cheaply from puritan), (and avoid potatoes if she is type O.). That is a much more synergistic approach. Jello, as it is made of collagen, is good to eat. She should also be getting enough minerals (chelated only), which is tough without heavy supplementation (just look at the RDA\'s). It is also very good to do a cleanse.

    There is a designer collagen supplement called NutraVitta (search is easy) I swear by. I think you\'d like it, in combination with pycnogenol and copper-peptide lotion (skinbiology.com), for enhancing youthfulness. Powerful combo for elimenating wrinkles and sagging skin. (Not that you have either; I just know you\'re \'over 30.\')

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    Thanks for that, I\'ll be sure to tell my friend. Her hip joints are so bad she can\'t get her legs open far enough to have sex! I\'d slit my throat. It\'s been like that for months now and only seems to get worse, even with physical therapy. But her doctor hasn\'t suggested anything else for her to do, so she\'s resigned herself to it.


    I just got my CP serum and emu oil today from skin bio. Will certainly try the NutraVitta. Thanks.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    And pycnogenol! Very important!
    do a search on Masquelier\'s GrapeGold -- best and most economical.
    Vit-C Ester would be icing.

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    Will do, thanks again, you\'re very kind.

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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Acute dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) effects on sexual arousal in postmenopausal women.

    Hackbert L, Heiman JR.

    Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, USA.
    BACKGROUND: The age-related decline of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) has prompted research on its experimental replacement in women. Although no relationship to sexual functioning in healthy women has been shown to date, DHEA replacement has potential for affecting sexual response. METHODS: To investigate DHEA effects, 16 sexually functional postmenopausal women participated in a randomized, double-blind, crossover protocol in which oral administration of DHEA (300 mg) or placebo occurred 60 minutes before the presentation of an erotic video segment. Blood DHEA sulfate (DHEAS) changes, subjective and physiological sexual responses, as well as affective responses were measured in response to videotaped neutral and erotic video segments. RESULTS: The concentration of DHEAS increased 2-5-fold following DHEA administration in all 16 women. Subjective ratings across DHEA and placebo conditions showed significantly greater mental (p < 0.016) and physical (p < 0.036) sexual arousal to the erotic video with DHEA vs. placebo. Positive affect also increased during the erotic video across drug conditions. Vaginal pulse amplitude (VPA) and vaginal blood volume (VBV) demonstrated a significant increase (p < 0.001) between neutral and erotic film segments within both conditions (DHEA and placebo) but did not differentiate drug conditions. CONCLUSION: In sum, increases in mental and physical sexual arousal ratings significantly increased in response to an acute dose of DHEA in postmenopausal women.

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