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  1. #91
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Yeah PC works, When I was doing testing I never focused on the sexual effects. Although many test subjects did regard an increase in frequency(what I was speaking of in my post), they also did regard an appeared increase in size...Unfortunately the purpose of my study was to increase Nitric oxide naturally as a means of High BP treatment, and Lowering of tachycardia(rapid heart beat). So, there was no, um, intrest in checking the claims.

    Mike

  2. #92
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Primarily because we don\'t produce as much progesterone as a woman does. Progesterone serum levels in men gen < 6nmol/L while in females < 10nmol/L in the follicular phase, and > 30nmol/L in luteal phase. Progesterone does impart effect on HPTA(hypothalamus-pituitary-testicular axis(other wise known as the switch controlling hormone function)) can lower LH/Testosterone production.

    Also Testosterone is a very potent hormone, when it is active it dominates, when its metabolite DHT is present it even goes so far as to block the effects of estrogen. Now in a normal un modified male progesterone does effect Test levels. However in males supplementing androgens/anabolics, the Test maintains a half life of days compared to hours(so it maintains primary effects due to increased androgen/estrogen ratio). As it wears on it can aromatize to estrogen, or 5alpha reduce to DHT. Anabolics do increase progesterone, which shows it does have a role in HPTA. But since the androgen is supplemented and not being physically produced, the effects may not be felt till the point that it has returned to normal.


    I have heard some funny statements, and questions. Best is \"I heard steroids shrink your willy, is that true?\" I responded \"no, actually the opposite, androgens can make it grow if your genetics permit\" Her response \"Prove it\"

  3. #93
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Folks, not to be a party pooper, but Bruce will probably move this thread if we don\'t start talking about pheromones, which was the original point to the DHEA post.

    Can you guys maybe start a new thread in the health section, so we can keep the information about pheromones in the pheromone section, and not tempt Bruce to yank it out? (Ooops...that didn\'t sound right.[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif[/img])

  4. #94
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Doc,

    How about this? Based primarily on the nose, I\'ve speculated that DHEA or a derivative thereof figures prominently in the makeup of WAGG.

    Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #95
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Thanks, Mike.
    Sure appreciate your theories. Please keep us posted on this topic when it is researched.

  6. #96
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    That\'s very interesting, Big O. It would be nice to test DHEA by itself and report reactions.

    What makes sense to me in theory is that DHEA-S on the skin might \"humanize\" the other -mones by providing a larger, natural context containing potentially multitudinous chemicals; and environment for -none, -nol, etc., like an animal musk. A real musk, after all, might contain 100 pherochemicals, if you include chemicals that at least act pheromonic in combination.

    So I suppose there could be a connection between \"natural\" (referring to a -mone being in context -- in the presence of other chemicals it is typically found with.) and \"GG-ness\", in that natural might seem more trustworthy.

  7. #97
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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  9. #99
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  10. #100
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I\'ve tested both DHEA and DHEA-S and haven\'t obtained any noticeable reactions at all.

    DHEA is very easy to test -- just dissolve some in alcohol.

    DHEA-S is not as easy to test, because it has to be obtained from a chemical supply house and must be kept refrigerated at all times or it breaks down.

    This is why I doubt DHEA-S is in any commercial pheromone product, even though there\'s some evidence (which I did not find to be the case in my own limited tests) that continued topical application of it could increase one\'s own phero output where applied.

    DHEA\'s lack of effectiveness is why I doubt DHEA is in any commercial pheromone product that actually works.

  11. #101
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    \"Ingredients:
    Alcohol Denat, DHEA\"

    That just seems a little silly somehow. Not for men?

  12. #102
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    I do feel the reactions from ingesting it have been noticeable.(although I also have to take 3 saw palmetto caps to keep DHT out of my hair follicles, it seems).

    That\'s different from wearing it. Nevertheless, the 7-keto variety is in all the skin-biology products. Maybe that\'s what\'s in Cutler\'s stuff. Maybe there is a way to add things to DHEA-S to keep it stable at normal temperatures -- I doubt it\'s that difficult to do.

    There\'s no reason for cynicism about it at all, although I understand you tried it unsuccessfully. I do admire your spirit of adventure. How long did you try it for? Did you notice any smell at all?

    The biggest difference in skin chemical composition between those at the studly age (18-25) and those that aren\'t is DHEA-S levels. We know that skin bacteria (and possibly other processes) can and does convert DHEA-S on the skin to all the major pheromones. We know that ingesting it makes you smell more animalic/musky. We know that several researchers believe DHEA-S is a pheromone. We know that some studies support the Athena product for men (though we may distrust the research), and that many swear by the product when used over time. We know there are other DHEA phero products on the market.

    All this, along with my own positive experiences, keeps me curious and hopeful. How else can things move forward?

  13. #103
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Dr. Smell,

    Could you please clarify what is below?

    \"Negative DHEA side effects start showing up at about 15mg (prostate). I keep it to 5-10mg/day. \"

    What is the effect on the prostrate. I just started using some DHEA and it is a 25 mg daily dose. I am not sure, but I think it has reduced my libido. Is that possible? I thought it would increase it. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

  14. #104
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    In response to getting this thread back to pheromones, I noticed two things within one week of starting to take DHEA. First, though I kept up with the same phero combination at the same application rate, I seemed to gain even more respect, with people like getting out of my way with no questions asked. The nice thing though, is that it isn\'t the same as with a regular OD on -none. It is a much more positive situation. The second interesting thing, was that one day I walked into a classroom and my students said that I definitely must have changed my cologne/perfume. They seem quite sensitive to whatever I wear. Anyway, I had changed NOTHING; same phero combination at the same rate as for several weeks. Nothing was different except for the DHEA that I was putting in my system. This was before I had read this thread, but I suspected that it might be the DHEA, because I had already noticed the extra respect I was getting.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    so does taking DHEA increase more RONE output on men??Ive also mentioned on several posts that when I feel my testosterone levels being high (like on leg day at the gym) that I seem to get waaaaaay more attention from girls than when I just wear none by itself...what pheromone do we (males) send out when our test levels are high??Rone???

  16. #106
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    MaddMax, At 32 you probably don\'t need DHEA, and I would ly off for about a month and take tesicular/adrenal support, like Maca/pumpkin seed/raw glandular/ashwaganda/gonseng/tribulus/horny goat, etc. You may have induced a negative feedback loop (even though DHEA isn\'t too bad tis way) that tells your body to stop releasing it when needed. The constant supply might have discouraged your body\'s natural spikes, say, when it encounters a pretty woman. The constant saturation may also have fatigued your tissues against reacting too it.

    Then, after the month, I\'d go to 5mg. When I was your age, 10mg was still an OD for me, and would give me a headache. Only now can I do 10mg.. I only take one 5mg tab at a time, and at least one after a meal so it absorbs slowly into my system.

    At a 15mg a day dose, at least one study has suggested an increased risk of prostate problems.

  17. #107
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    JVK talks a lot about DHEA >> -rone happening. However, keep in mind that with sufficient dietary sulphur, healthy adrenals/liver, 90% of ingested DHEA should be being converted to DHEA-S, which tends to stay that way, as DHEA-S, until you sweat it or pee it out; unless your body needs extra test/estro, stc. for something. Then your skin enzymes, bacteria, and acids will convert it to whatever, including -none, -rone, and -nol. Most all of the pheromones can be synthesized from DHEA-S, including all the 16-androstenes, and a ton of them we don\'t know about! So think about it! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Maybe 5% of ingested DHEA gets directly converted to -rone. Still that\'s significant. So you probably do notice a -rone effect.

  18. #108
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    These are the SAME EXACT reactions I have been, and gotten.

    I also take 25 mg.

    I think it takes a while, probably 2-3 weeks, just like glucosamine, to work...

    I think in those few weeks it\'s storing it up in yoru body, just like creatine. It doesn\'t get released until you have filled up your potential.

    Nevertheless. I will be after weightlifting in school, and I will spray on some axe. However, I won\'t spray very much on really ( on the underarms and accross the chest). (The underarms is probably another reason because that is where pheromones are, and axe doesn\'t kill pheromones like anti-perspirant does to block the body from sweating.

    Anyway, I just got out of the locker room and right when I walked out there was a group or 3 girls. And one of them made a comment on my cologne. I was just like, oh, it\'s the axe stuff.

    I don\'t think it\'s like the commercial, however, anything that doesn\'t kill mones, or keep them from coming out is going to help the mones.

    And, the people getting out of the way before. Yes, it is different. With nones it\'s people being afraid. However, with rone, it\'s as if they do it out of cuertousy, while still giving respect.

    I like that a lot better. You get what you want without upsetting others.

    One other thing I have noticed though too...Is just people in a better mood. Especially when I\'m on caffeine.

    Aside from caffiene\'s well-being effect....DHEA is stored in the body fat. One of the MANY amazing things caffeine does is it saves the muscle glycogen by burning fat. DHEA is stored in the fat. DHEA is than released when on caffeine.

    But, it is one thing I have noticed though. People seem to just be in a better mood. Not necessarily laughing and such, but, better mood.

    Perhaps it is in my imagination, however I am glad to see others get the same reactions.

    You know, I think a lot of people are getting reactions, however, they just don\'t know how to see the subtle differences in others.

    Bart

  19. #109
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Perhpas the body has not adjusted to it? I find the natural spikes are higher before stimulus. Girls, before you lift something, etc. MUCH MUCH HIGHER. However, it may only be because of his not taking very long, the body has enough already, and so you don\'t get the spikes...Until the body perhaps has stored it in the body, as a form of DHEA-S? And before the body has adapted, and/or built up a tolerance?

    Bart

  20. #110
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Dr. Smell,

    Thanks for the comments. I actually just picked the DHEA up on a whim while on a trip to the U.S. I knew nothing about recommended dosage, but 25 mg was the only thing they had in the store. I guess one thing that got me interested in the DHEA was someting I read that showed that by my age even, we could have T-levels of only 20% of what they were in our early 20\'s. I found it believeable, when I considered the degree to which my sex drive fell off at about age 28, accompanied by a lack of stamina( meaning, changing for being able to shag a women 3-4 times from night till morning, to once at most).
    I haven\'t experienced a single headache even at 25 mg daily. That is coming from a guy who is actually fairly susceptible to headaches.

  21. #111
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Marv,

    Nice to hear about some similar reactions.
    I consider myself fairly good at picking up on subtle differences in people\'s behavior. I am fairly sure that things changed shortly after I started taking the DHEA. Not that things were overly terrible before that, because of my regular phero combination. Nonetheless, I think I am going to greatly reduce the amount I am taking. I am certainly not going to continue with 25 mg a day. Until I get a hold of something with lower dosage I will just take 25 mg every couple of days or something like that.

  22. #112
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    The main short term problem is hair loss. I minimize the dose for that reason. I do think DHEA helps with younger women, as it presents you as a younger man. I had really good luck with a sweet, Jewish, large-boobed 22 y.o. last week on 10mg. plus CS-WKM. She started off being coy, but was literally begging me to be inside her two days later. We had two nights of passion, then I got the all-too-common \"Oh God what have I done\" reaction. Easy come, easy go.

  23. #113
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Actually, hair loss is a major concern for me. Any advice on how to counter that. In the past I attempted to use Saw Palmetto; I think it was a few hundred mg per day; but I am fairly sure that it was responsible for completely destroying my libido to the point of impotency. Any thoughts on that? Lot\'s of stuff I read says that unlike pharmaceutical products, it isn\'t suppossed to have that effect. Well, it certainly does that to me. Is it a matter of dosage once again? Was I taking too much?

  24. #114
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default Re: DHEA-S Need to Knows

    Here, MaddMaxx

    www.hairsite.com/topical/t-alpha.htm

    www.skinbiology.com

    It wouldn\'t suprise me...Try laying off the saw palmetto for a while if your hair loss has leveled out, or reducing it.. We do need some DHT. No use trashing your body chemistry if you are losing hair for genetic reasons. A bit futile....

  25. #115
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm bumping this thread for

    newbies and those interested. It's not really a research thread, but it is informative. Sorry about the obsolete

    links.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  26. #116
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    Default

    Ok so now to the age question. Do

    the youngsters need this? Or is it harmfull???

  27. #117
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    If I remember, it wasn't advised

    for youngins. I started taking 50 mgs a month ago, after two weeks of use, I read that they are now classifying it

    as steroids ... into the trash it went!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

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