DHEA-S Need to Knows

[DrSmellThis]

Good use of bold print, Max.

The effect did not show up for premenopausal women who had normal hormone levels.

[xvs]

hm. It\'s quite possible to have sex with the woman\'s legs closed, especially if she\'s on her stomach. On her back is also possible with the legs closed, and can be stimulating in an interesting way to the woman.

[xvs]

Title: DHEA: the last elixir.
Source: Prescrire Int, 11(60): 118-23 2002

Abstract: (1) DHEA, or dehydroepiandrosterone, is an adrenal steroid. Its physiological role is unclear, but it is known to be an intermediate in sex hormone synthesis. DHEA replacement therapy is not currently indicated in adrenal insufficiency. (2) Plasma DHEA levels are so low in most animal species that they are difficult to measure, hindering studies of the impact of DHEA on ageing. Most animal studies are based on administration of pharmacological doses. (3) Clinical data have been obtained in a very large number of observational studies, in which plasma concentrations of DHEA were measured in various situations. The only established fact is that circulating concentrations show wide interpersonal variability and a tendency to fall with age. Low DHEA levels have not so far been linked to any specific health disorders. (4) Clinical trials of DHEA have focused on cognitive function, well-being, libido, immunostimulation, etc. There is no proof that DHEA is beneficial in these areas. (5) The side effects of DHEA are linked to its androgenic effects (acne, hirsutism), its unfavourable effects on lipid metabolism (a cardiovascular risk factor), and a possible growth-stimulating effect on hormone-dependent malignancies (prostate, breast). (6) In practice, there is currently no scientific reason to prescribe DHEA for any purpose whatsoever.

[DrSmellThis]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=12163230&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=12064215&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=12039447&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=12376336&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uid s=11680205&dopt=Abstract

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for the abstracts and the links.

[DrSmellThis]

XVS, every scientist worth his or her salt knows we never prove anything with scientific research.

Still the above studies (see posted links) from reputable medical journals, published during the past year or two, are cause for optimism and further experimentation, at least.

I think the language in that article you posted is a bit extreme, then, and suggests a certain preexisting bias -- not that we all don\'t have one.

[xvs]

And caution.

From the abstract I posted:

\"unfavourable effects on lipid metabolism (a cardiovascular risk factor), and a possible growth-stimulating effect on hormone-dependent malignancies (prostate, breast)\"

[DrSmellThis]

I would absolutely not want anyone with suspected breast or prostate cancer to take the stuff. Thank you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That kind of leaves out both the women I was most hoping to benefit. Shoot. Back to the drawing board.

Do we know what the effects on lipids are?

[Lucky]

Red,
The MSN works, tell your friend with the hip joint problem to try it. Sulphur does wonderful things for the body and has been used throughout history. Isn\'t Blackwidow woman a native American Indian? She may have some folk advice for us about sulphur.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for that. I\'ll take it for a couple of weeks so I can say I\'ve done it before I tell my good friend and my mom. Somehow intuitively that just makes really good sense to me. I\'ve been thinking about it for awhile, trying to figure out what foods would provide it other than eggs, which we\'ve been \"educated\" out of eating. Great to know you can take it in a capsule!

[DrSmellThis]

Breitenbush Hot springs, on OR, is an ancient Native American sacred healing springs. The most prominent mineral in the water is sulphur. It\'s close to where Bruce lives, BTW. That would be a good place to pop DHEA and hang with naked people... [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[marv14yag]

Well, I do not take MSM, however, as I have said above I get a lot of MSM from foods and I do take collagen/cartilidge producing glucosamine and chondroitin...

Anyway, I have noticed that, before, like, my face, was just regular, and now it\'s like after you wash it looking, but even without washing...And, before, when I\'d cut my nails it would just CLIP off, but now when I clip them they are really soft and I have to rip them to get them off....Which, SHOULD be a good thing...Along with the joint confort.

That is the whole reason why I started taking them is because I do some martial arts, and I have a lot of knee hip, elboe, etc pains (especially when everyone is like, let me see this..Do that, blah blah blah...)

I don\'t know about the DHEA though, I was taking that LONG before, however, I suppose it MAY multiply the effects of the other things...

From my knowlege though, as for women taking it...Mostly I take it because of the raise in testosterone, however, I know it metabolizes differently in women, however, I do know in both MEN AND WOMEN it will increases libido.

XVS says it won\'t... Well, it\'s a BIT hard to test that...I say you just give it a try yourself and see if you see a differnce (ie, craving sex like 10 freaking times more, etc.)

Bart

[marv14yag]

Or you could take a gulp of that nasty egg water from the wells....It\'s got a BUNCH of Sulphur and also minerals...

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

On pycogenol

U.S. Patent No. 4,698,360, Inventor Jack Masquelier

Dosage he recommends is 1.5 - 3.0 mg per kilogram of body weight

www.integratedhealth.com/infoabstract/pycdes.html gives a technical article showing the chemical structure of pycogenol and explaining how it works as an extremely effective free radical scavenger and collagen builder in the body.

It is an extract of pine bark, with effects akin to grape seed and red wine, but more potent.

[DrSmellThis]

It also can be derived from grape seed.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I spoke to my friend with the hip thing. She\'s already taking glucosamine/chondritin and her formula has MSM mixed in. She says before she started taking it, she could only get up three stairs and had a hard time getting back down again. Now she can climb the stairs in her house. She said it\'s the only thing keeping her walking.


Pretty amazing.

[xvs]

If you\'re looking for anti-oxidants, I would recommend:

- alpha lipoic acid - in particular the sustained release kind which is manufactured by Jarrow and others.
- when taken in combination with acetyl-l-carnitine, it was shown to restore mitochondrial function of aged rats to middle-aged levels, and apparently works to clear out blockages of some mitochondrial enzymes which produce energy in the body.
- alpha lipoic acid is also one of the only anti-oxidants which can penetrate mitochondrial membranes

This combination definitely gives anyone over 30 or so more energy if used consistently for a few months. What I take is 300mg of sustained release alpha lipoic acid and 1000mg of acetyl-l-carnitine per day.

Pycogenol apparently is a patented extract and process, and therefore is more expensive than other products such as grape seed extract, which actually contains higher levels of antioxidants. Also, I\'d rather eat a grape seed than a pine tree!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, but does it make your skin pretty? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[MAL224610]

Hi, I have a few things to contribute regarding DHEA/and its sulfate ester, as well as clear up.

DHEA and DHEA-S or interconvertible in the blood. The Major differences between the two are that DHEA has a half-life of around 15-30 min and DHEA-S has a half life of around 7-10 hours. They are both active precursors, as for effects on pheromones, it might be due to the fact that androsterone is a metabolite of DHEA.

The most potent Pheromone precursor is going to be through DHT(dihydrotestosterone), and its metabolite/precursors(interconvertible) 3alpha-diol, 3beta-diol. I have seen some medical studies showing 3beta-diol presence in skin(but nothing showing pheromone testing). DHT is, compared to T, a more potent Androgen(virilizing/masculinizing compound).

Being a bodybuilder and having used OTC Andros/DHT precursors, and others I have noticed more attraction on said days. When you increase androgens chances are you that you increase present Alpha Male Pheromones.

In regards to testosterone effect on learning? That is a bogus review of this hormone, just like the assumption that Testosterone hurts the heart(newer studies show that administration of T decreases LpA(a known marker for heart disease)). There are so many biochemicals involved with learning that assigning hormones to dysfunction is not a good way to look at it. I do believe Hormones play a role in behavior, but in what way no one can say Behavioral Endocrinology is cutting edge science at this time.

. However, I will say that usage of DHT precursors intranasal have resulted in increased CNS levels of androgens. The result is Stimulating, and many experience better focus.

With the usage of androgens it is not easy to say where or how much a precursor will effect said receptor(prostate, muscle, cns, etc.). It will depend how resistant to the androgens a person is, now with age there may be an increase in receptor sensitivity due to decrease of circulating steroid(called upregulation).

As for side effects, T converts to Estrogen throughout the day in rate limited process involving the enzyme aromatase(which is also produced via fat cells).

Now as for bodybuilders having lower testosterone, that is not true. I have had mine tested, I never use anything without working with my doctor. My T levels are normal, and when I introduce androgens they are higher than normal(steroids work because they maintain longer halflives, and longer levels during recovery result in building muscle) As for exercise increasing testosterone this is true and untrue. As a matter of fact strenuous exercise can deplete T levels. It doesn\'t just appear.

Testosterone production is based upon circadian rythym(short short translation).
At night T levels are at their lowest, allowing for Gonadotrophins(T production stimulant), LH being the gonadotrophin, to rise up. So that in the AM T levels are at their peak. Then through metabolism(aromatase, 5a-reductase(androgen reducing enzyme to DHT), and other enzymes) T levels drop to begin the process again. So you see, what happens after exercise is that because of the drop in T, due to the exercise itself, T levels will be higher AFTER the workout for recovery.

Now back to DHEA-S. DHEA-Sulfate is produced from DHEA under influence of Adrenocorticotrophic-Hormone(ACTH). ACTH also stimulates production of catecholamines(Norepineprhine/Epinephrine(true name for Nor/Adrenaline).
As well as Cortisol.

MSM is good to add in because it is a sulfur donor compound for support of joints. Remember in human life sulfur is a readily available element.


With Sideffects assoc\'d with estrogen and Testosterone again its a case where each individual will be different(some more sensitive than others). Most of the truley risky side effects occur from Supraphysiological levels(super human), and alot of cutting edge research is showing good gains with less hormones for athletes.

Remember when taking anything that effects hormones you should be checking liver enzymes, and allowing your doctor to advise in usage.

I really hope what I could add helps on general steroid biochemistry.

Mike

[Watcher]

All i worry about is if it makes me feel good and more energetic.

[bjf]

I am so confused....

is there something i should be taking to help improve the phermones i put on my body. Maybe you are saying that some of this stuff just increases your body\'s own permones, which doesn\'t seem necessary if you have love scent products, correct??

[Watcher]

DHEA increases natural production and allows u to break down the skin based applied synthetics more efficently as well.

[bjf]

is the DHEA is Fish Oil capsules fine for this??

[DrSmellThis]

All those triple formulas are skimpy on the MSM. She shoulkd take it separately.

[Watcher]

You can buy this stuff fairly cheap on its own, just try any natural foods store or health food store.

[DrSmellThis]

Thanks for the idea, XVS. I take both products, but I\'ll remember to do it together!

The active OPC\'s in pycnogenol or the Masqueliers product are not concentrated enough in grape seed to get the effect. To get the effect you\'d spend much more. The antioxidant power of OPC\'s is one of the highest existing, far more than the whole seed.

Having said that, if you want a holistic effect, Puritans sells an all grape product that has skin and seed. Combine all three substances for a powerful punch. Grape skin has great things in it too!! (That\'s why red wine has health benefits)

Pine bark is the source of great medicine, just as aspirin comes from white willow bark (or can). The pine OPC\'s work for ADD, and help with MS and other brain conditions, as they cross the blood-brain barrier.. Pine essential oil is also great for mental acuity (interesting to note the visual similarity between pine bark and the myelin sheath)

[Watcher]

So u can buy pine bark by itself from any naturalpath Drsmellthis, i might grab it for my TS condition.

[DrSmellThis]

Pardon, what is TS? I like the Masquelier\'s blend product, which contains both the grape and pine OPC\'s. They also sell a pure pine one, but it\'s more $. I\'ve never bought plain pine bark. Ask your naturopath.

[MAL224610]

There is currently a bill in congress proposed to ban precursors and metabolites of steroid. Even if proved safe, and pregnenolone through DHT metabolites are in peril, go to www.usfa.biz(this is the site for info on the bill, and how to fight it)

If you want repost this in a new thread so all can support.

Mike