Bomb Iraq

[Elana]

<When i strap myself into that plane and close the cockpit up, open the trottle i no longer am flying that plane, GOD is the pilot and it is him flying that plane, if i die, it\'s ali\'s will\"..this was a Israeli pilot fighting the Palestines..something he\'d done every day of his life sence graduating from flight school.>

Wolfe-I can GUARANTEE you that an Israeli pilot did NOT say whatever happens is Allah\'s will. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Watcher]

Wolfe is talking about the isreali-egypt 1967 7 day war that those 2 countreis thought over the suez canal. Wolfe is mid 50s so this would have been from 35 years ago. So elana just to point something out the f16 was active at that time which means that he is telling a truthful story. And they had palestians fighting for them at this time, remember arabs or isreali arabs serve in the isreali armed forces as well. Well they did at least back then.

[Wolfe]

was very long ago and many things have gone through this ol brain sence those days, i was a flight line tech and i got the story second hand from my supervisor(i wasnt allowed in the officers club)

[Wolfe]

no watcher she is right, she objected to the term ali and they wouldnt have said that part.
was tired last night and that was over 20 yrs ago when it happened. things get crammed togeather sometimes as so many yrs pass. the time will come you\'ll understand [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Wolfe]

and elena my apoliges as i know that would have offended you.

[Elana]

Wolfe- You didn\'t offend me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Just lick me a few times and all will be forgiven.

[Wolfe]

sigh, think my days of pursuit are over. the chase game was alot of fun(and i guess in ways i needed it to help me through the tough times i faced after divorce, but now the realization has set in that it\'s just that, a game, and knowing love will never be a part of me again has taken the\' hunt\' outta me.

[Elana]

WTF?

[Wolfe]

wtf?/..thought i was clear...i\'m out of the hunting game, and will not pursue any more women in my life. Now i know that this isnt exactly pursuing on here, per say, but my heart isnt in even into that any more.
I no longer have the capicity for happyness in me, so no sence in trying any more.

[Mtnjim]

\"Wolfe is talking about the isreali-egypt 1967 7 day war that those 2 countreis thought over the suez canal. Wolfe is mid 50s so this would have been from 35 years ago. So elana just to point something out the f16 was active at that time which means...\"

During that time the plane would have been the F-4 Phantom.

Jim

[upsidedown]

And so, if it was the 1967 war, then it was probably Egyptian aircraft that he was fighting.

[Wolfe]

the f16a came online in 76 and took to air combat in 79, in 81 they came out with the 16c, followed shortly by the d model, which was a multirole platform, keep in mind..doesnt take a \'war\' over there..they have been fighting over 1000 yrs ,
something they still do to this very day there.

[franki]

I think one of the problems with this potential Gulf-war is, that there is no momentum. I mean there hasn\'t been an invasion of Kuwait or a 9/11 attack. The reasons the Bush-administration wants to attack Iraq could have been used 3 or 4 years ago (back when the inspections stopped). That doesn\'t mean the reasons to attack Iraq are not valid now, but why does the USA wants to do it now? It sure gives a lot of people the impression that there are other reasons to do this, apart from Iraq.

Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Wolfe]

ya know, thats a good point, think it might have to do with the goverment think osama is in hiding there now?( he sure went somewhere)

[franki]

LOL. I wasn\'t thinking along THOSE lines at all. But you never know .......

Franki

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I saw Osama last night at the Walmart in a strip mall near Front Royal.

[Wolfe]

ya know, only someone VERY rich or VERY dedicated to him would hide him--dude is worth lke 50 million dead or alive (osama)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

He bought a big bin of Twizzlers and an \"I\'m With Stupid\" t shirt.

[Whitehall]

During the Gulf War, one of the reasons Bush 41 pulled back from going to Baghdad was that we knew that Iraq had nuclear weapons. The special nuclear materials were left over from the Osirak reactor that the Israelis had bombed in the 80\'s, just before it\'s completion. The French sold the reactor to them along with 8 core reloads of 95% Uranium 235.

The bombing destroyed the reactor but left the uranium. It had been under IAEA inspection and was accounted for until the war started. The Iraqis then rushed to convert it into battlefield weapons - they would have used them if we had cornered the regime - we hoped that internal revolt would do the job but guessed wrong and the regime survived.

Post-bellum, UN inspectors recovered the weapons-grade uranium and removed it from the country.

Since then, Iraq has pursued uranium enrichment as the path to nuclear weapons. Enrichment has the advantage that the centrifuges used are small and can be dispersed throughout the country making an Osirak-style strike pointless and ineffective.

We have hard evidence of the importation of the fairly unique materials needed to make centrifuges into Iraq. Given our knowledge of when the centrifuges could have started operating and how many could have been built, we can guess when Iraq could again field nuclear weapons. it won\'t be long.

Once Saddam is confident that he can deter attacks from superior powers using his nuclear weapons (like North Korea thinks it knows), then our overwhelming conventional military power is almost meaningless. Saddam will then be able to operate unrestrainted in his ambitions. Traditional nuclear deterrance will be meaningless to a leader such as him.

Saddam will then have real power over the world\'s major oil reserves and production. One thing we know about Saddam is that when he gains power, he USES it for evil ends.

This man\'s personality profile is the same as all the great dictators - Hilter, Stalin, Mao, Napoleon - people mean nothing in his pursuit of greater and greater power. Stalin is his particular avatar.

If the rest of the world does nothing and allows this man to gain such power, the world will rapidly become a very unhappy place.

While we started with a cute anti-war ditty, I can\'t help thinking that this is extremely serious business. Inaction on the part of the West and the US will mark a major turning point in history, one that generations to come will regret deeply.

[CptKipling]

\"I can\'t help but think that any other country that has endured unprovoked attacks from neighboring countries (7-day war), attempted genocide against it\'s race (WWII), and suicide bombers openly encouraged and rewarded by other nationalities, would have by now kicked the ever-lovin\' crap out of it\'s hostile neighbors, and established a \"buffer-zone\" along the lines of what the USSR did with Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, etc., following (WWII).

Man alive, I think Israel has exercised incredible restraint.\"

This isn\'t what I was talking about.

You are speaking from one side of a very controversial argument.


\"But, I agree with all the comments made re the Israelis. The Palestinians are lucky that Israel hasn\'t wiped them off the face of the planet yet. I agree that Isreal has been very patient and restrained over the years.\"

I\'m sorry but that is a particularly bigoted point of view.

Does anyone here have any idea what happens to Palestinians in Isreal?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

In the neighborhood of G, please:

Kumbayah, my lord
Kumbayah
Kumbayah, my lord
Kumbayah

(Bruce, I can\'t hear you...)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

1947-49 Israeli war of Independence. Israel vs 5 Arab armies.
1956. Sinai campaign. Israel vs Egypt.
1967 Six day war. Israel vs Egypt,Syria, Jordan, Iraq.
1973 Yom Kippur war. Israel vs Egypt, Syria,Jordan,Iraq,Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and a cast of thousands....
1982 Peace for Galilee operation. Israel vs Syria and PLO


First operational F-16 delivered Jan. 1979.

You\'re getting mixed up again Auss.Errr! I mean watcher!

Israel maintains a 3 to 1 ratio of pilots to aircraft in order to maintain a high ops tempo and so a pilot with blood coming out his every hole from pulling high G\'s will not be getting back in the air again !!! The other 2 guys will make up for him. Fairy story!

[Wolfe]

when a pilot is a Ace, they give him what he wants
and that 1st one was delivered to the 388th TFW.

as a footnote wasnt till \'80 they became fully operational with the f16a\'s

[seadove]

<<<1947-49 Israeli war of Independence. Israel vs 5 Arab armies.
1956. Sinai campaign. Israel vs Egypt.
1967 Six day war. Israel vs Egypt,Syria, Jordan, Iraq.
1973 Yom Kippur war. Israel vs Egypt, Syria,Jordan,Iraq,Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and a cast of thousands....
1982 Peace for Galilee operation. Israel vs Syria and PLO >>>

In 1947-49 G-d was behind us
In 1956....The same
In 1967...He actually participated.Who would win a war like than in 6 days?
In 1973... He saved us in the last moments.
In 1982... I don\'t know.

Let us pray that our enemies will leave us alone, I\'m afraid they are trying G-d\'s patience too long.

[Elana]

Israeli issue: Some basic facts

http://www.infoclick.org/conflict.html

[Elana]

Or we can go back even earlier

http://www.infoclick.org/nutshell3.html

[Wolfe]

that region has been fighting longer than recorded history most likely [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]..over one thing or another

[Naughtymonkey]

And I\'m sorry to say it but the chances are it will be Americans who inflict the causalties on Americans - collateral damage? try telling that to an Afgan wedding party. I wonder how much soul searching went on in the states when that or the entire village they wiped out happened? Civilian causalties may be an inevitable consequence of any war involving any country. But a gung ho military doesn\'t do anyone any good. There is considerable concern here in the UK that our armed forces are more at risk from the US than Iraq. Clearly something is wrong somewhere along the line

[Wolfe]

thats a sad price of WAR( that shouldn\'t happen but does-has happened in every war ever fought). we at least declared war on the afgans after a attack on US soil and had the \'intent\' to strike military targets.
Now does that explain what happen at the Twin Towers on 9-11? No way no how!!..that wasnt a military target at all, in no strech of the imagination could it have been thought to be so, yet they used it as a target. In no way can that be allowed to happen unanswered.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"There is considerable concern here in the UK that our armed forces are more at risk from the US than Iraq.\"

Naughtymonkey, why would that be? I don\'t understand...