Mixed signal non-hit

[Irish]

This isn\'t much of a report, but it is what happened…

Thought I\'d try a mixed male-female signal. I\'ll spare you the mix-math, but here\'s how the active ingredients ratioed out:

1 NPA/m
1 NPA/w
¼ None
½ Nol

A little EW was added. The above pheros were at a total combined concentration of 0.067mg/ml, the final EW concentration in the mix was at 10,000:1 A pretty weak mix overall. One heavy spray of this to the back of my head, one spray of my AE-clone to the collar. Covered with a spray of Dolce & Gabbana.

I was in close contact with about 9 twentysomething women over the evening: some friends, some acquaintances, 2 strangers.

One girl I spoke with (didn\'t know her) began to hairflip like crazy, but her conversation and body language were downright hostile. She complained about the men in our city, had nothing pleasant to say about anything, and left rather quickly
One female acquaintance asked me out on a date, but it was for a special event - don\'t think it was sudden phero-lust for me. In fact she was more reserved toward me than usual. Other females were either neutral towards me or somewhat reserved.

This is not my usual phero reaction - normally I get lots of touching, animated sexy or affectionate conversation, occasional DIHL, hairflips - all the usual stuff. This mix seemed worse than wearing nothing. I can usually feel a good phero vibe - but not with this though.

I\'ll try it again since I have it mixed up, but I hate to waste these golden nights on a questionable mix, when I have several proven mixes I can take advantage of.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Irish: Feel free to do the mix math if you want [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] If I\'m following this properly, the overall concentration of pheros on this mix was less than half of the concentration of, say a JB1 (around .15) and far less than SOE (.5). Was the idea to just leave a hint of \'female\' pattern signature in addition to your AE clone signature?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Irish, is there any way to find out whether that girl who was hostile is always bitchy, or whether that was out of character for her? I\'ve been trying to picture the situation and it would seem to me pretty rude, not to mention not in a woman\'s own best interest, to talk like that.

What do you think accounted for the not spectacular results?

[Irish]

Sym-

Yes, my idea was to have a fairly dilute solution with female signals, but not to overpower the male signal I also had working (I had a male element in that mix, plus a traditional male signal with the AE clone I sprayed elsewhere).

I often make up sprayable mixes that are fairly dilute. For instance TE is .12mg/ml, but I often make up my own spray mixes about half that concentrated. It\'s a personal preference - I find it works about as well and gives me more control of the dose. I can always add another spray of the weak stuff if I need to.

The drop counts of pheros, EW, and Everclear to get the mix is not handy - I may have even thrown it out. Once I decided the rough ratios and overall concentration I worked out the drop ratios for the ingredients. It was a little tricky since I was using different concentrations of pheros and a pre-diluted EW. Since I don\'t think I\'ll mix up more of this I didn\'t bother to write everything down in my notebook. The ratios in my first post are mg ratios of the active ingredients, not drop ratios. The concentration of the combined pheros in the solution was 0.067mg/ml.

[Irish]

FTR - Don\'t know if the girl is normally rude, but she seems to have friends so I doubt she treats them like she did m!. It was a decidedly bad conversation, which she initiated - so it wasn\'t like I was hitting on her and she was giving me the brushoff. Anyhoo, we never really know whether these incidents are phero-driven or something else (except some obvious situations like an od, or a woman sniffing around my collar and groping me - it happened once!!). I just chalk it up as a data point and try not to attribute to much to the phero angle.

But, overall on an evening where I am close to several woman, and I get the same or unusual bad vibe from most of them, well then I start to smell a trend. I don\'t like the reaction I got with this mix, and I think it was happening enough for me to blame the pheros, not just random bad events. Even a few women who are normally affectionate with me were a little standoffish and wary after we were close for a while. I don\'t think it was a stink od - I used proven cologne for me and very dilute phero spray.

If I tested it a lot more I could probably convince myself one way or the other. Trouble is I hate to blow opportunuties to flirt wearing a probable crap mix, when I could be wearing something I know works for me! That\'s why hit stories and od stories are helpful to me - I can learn from others\' successes and failures without doing all the legwork myself.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah. It\'s one thing to say \"I got hits, but I\'m not sure if it was my mix or not.\" It\'s another thing to say \"People were not so nice to me tonight and I\'m not sure if it was my mix or not.\" In the latter case, why not throw the mix out of the equation and move on, right?

Just curious if she sensed the EW and wrote you off as a no account cheatin\' son of a so and so. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Irish]

Maybe she wrote me off as a floating-gender weirdo, which is always my concern when wearing \'feminine products\'.

McClintock noticed by chance that some psychological resposes to cloaked A1 only occured when members of the opposite sex were in the room. It was like the phero primed the woman to look for a man to respond to. Maybe something like that could happen when we wear each others pheros - and when they\'re sensed on the wrong gender the reaction is cancelled/garbled/reversed? Who knows - all I know is I didn\'t get anywhere wearing my m-f mix. And I\'ve had bad luck before wearing EW, and trying to mix it with RogueMale.

[Wolfe]

the answer might be real simple, could have been her time of the month and the -none got to her. just a guess.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Irish, that makes sense to me from experience with SOE and Oscar\'s Virtual Sweetie, where it feels to me like there\'s a man in the house even though I know there isn\'t.

[Irish]

OK, thought I\'d try again without the \'female\' signal mixed in, to see if that was the problem. Went with everything as before, except instead of the male-female mix to the head, I applied my old favorite - light spray of Andro4.2 + 1 dab NPA/m. No NPA/w or EW this time. I knew I\'d be around a few young women - turned out to be about six over 4 hour timespan.

Much better. Friendly animated chat, sexy banter, \'Oh you smell sooo good!\', girls lingering around my area without reason, one asked to sit next to me and another just plopped down to talk - went mild DIHL and lost her train of thought. No massive hits, but pretty much what I\'m used to with pheros.

I haven\'t given up on using female products like EW and NPA/w, esp. after hearing the girls on the forum talk about effects on themselves when they wear them. But so far I\'ve had no luck mixing them with \'male\' products. That may be my problem - mixed signals. I\'ve theorized about mixing male and female, but the results so far haven\'t backed that up - a strong \'male\' signal has been much better for me than a male-female mix.

I don\'t buy the common reason that \'some people\'s chemistry or natural pheros don\'t mix with certain synthetic pheros\'. Why don\'t I believe that? Cause most of us shower off and deodorize our natural pheros before we apply the products. We\'re working off a fairly clean palette… plus the applied synthetic doses are usually hundreds of times the concentration of anything natural produced on our skin - effectively drowning out any residual natural pheros.

So if that\'s not the reason the mix didn\'t work, what might be? I think one possibility is the fact I was mixing male and female phero signals, or that the female part of the signal clashed with other social cues I give off (eyes, gestures, touch - we all do these subconsciously). Betty Harris wrote about giving off mixed signals being like saying \'I love you\" while shaking your fist at the same time. It\'s a confusing message that repulses or frightens people. \'Schizophrenic\' if you will.

And as Sobel tells us, the language of pheros is unknown. Different concentrations or ratios could send entirely different messages, like rearranging the same letters makes completely different words(and meaning). So we don\'t really know what our synthetic phero mixes are saying most of the time.

Anyway, I think I\'ll try the cops and NPA/w by themselves in a non-critical situation, like wandering in stores and whatnot. Last year I had a steady relationship, which made it easier to try out new pheros and observe the effect on her. That ended last month, so now I\'m trolling again and can\'t afford to waste opportunities by running off girls with my harebrained phero mixes.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It would appear that the effects women\'s \'mones have on women themselves does not cross over to men. I say this because the men using EW don\'t report any of the stuff the women feel when they wear it, and EW seems to me like the pheromone of pheromones at least as far as potency goes, for women. Almost the first things women report are physical/emotional reactions. The guys don\'t seem to have similar reactions at all. So it is not surprising that those pheromones don\'t work in the same way as attractants.

[Irish]

It\'s weird, isn\'t it? We almost seem to be reporting the opposite effects from what you would expect. EW and PF/w do give me a slight focused increase in sex drive, but it\'s not really overt like the noticeable effects on yorselves you girls are reporting when you wear cops. The effects you describe with cops and NPA/w is what gives me such hope for using them myself - but so far no luck.

But...I have been using cops/NPA/w along with male products, so maybe that screws it up. That\'s why I may bite the bullet and go with pure female products to see what happens. I just don\'t want to do it in critical seduction opportunities, cause I don\'t trust the concept of \'smelling like a girl\' yet. We\'ll see...

[CptKipling]

I think there is definately a huge factor that reasults in mix failure that we haven\'t even touched upon.

I also agree that I cant be body chemistry, because we are dealing with bulk attractant pheros. Maybe its attitude related? But I suspect its something chemical...

[nonscents]

<blockquote><font class=\"small\">In reply to:</font><hr>

I don\'t buy the common reason that \'some people\'s chemistry or natural pheros don\'t mix with certain synthetic pheros\'. Why don\'t I believe that? Cause most of us shower off and deodorize our natural pheros before we apply the products. We\'re working off a fairly clean palette… plus the applied synthetic doses are usually hundreds of times the concentration of anything natural produced on our skin - effectively drowning out any residual natural pheros.

<hr></blockquote>

I agree that this has left me scratching my head too. I read the hit reports: a guy who is usually invisible to women now attracts female attention wherever he goes. Yet another guy who is also usually invisible wears the same formula and gets nothing.

I have no great wisdom to add to this, but a few simplistic comments seem apt. First, let us assume that the data are good. Let us assume that Person X really is getting lots of easy-to-spot monster hits, and Person Y, with equally good powers of acuity, does not get easy-to-spot monster hits with the same formula F. Also, let us assume that both X and Y do not get monster hits when they do not use any pheros.

So:
X+F=monster hits
Y+F=no hits
X alone=no hits
Y alone=no hits

What does this tell me? It tells me that F alone is insufficient to bring about hits. Or does it? Somebody, I think it was Watcher, but I could be wrong, recently mentioned putting mones on a paper napkin and throwing it in the garbage. All the women in the office then congregated around the garbage. And there are some articles somewhere on this site about experimenters putting mones on the seats in a theater. These were the seats that normally are not occupied unless the theater was full. Yet these seats were occupied first when they were phero-treated.

So far, it\'s all very confusing. Synthetic mones are attractants on some people and on some things but are not attractants on other people. I can only draw one very simplistic conclusion at this point: it has to be something about the user that makes the difference. I don\'t know what it is but what are the candidates?

It could be the individual\'s chemical signature sans synthetic mones. Irish argues that this is unlikely because of contemporary bathing habits. I cannot dispute his claim but I would ask if the following hypothetical is possible. What if we can\'t smell stuff that has a VMR effect? Is it possible that soap and water remove smells but have no effect on the unsmellable VMR signature? It seems unlikely, but, as the scientists are wont to say, further research is needed.

So we know there has to be something about person Y that makes phero formula F, which causes X to have monster hits, totally ineffective. Someone else, (I again apologize for forgetting who) suggested that Y may have some inherent repellent properties (behavioral, chemical, for the moment it\'s nature is immaterial [no pun intended]). If F attracts women on X and attracts women on napkins and probably attracts women on almost every substrate, if it doesn\'t attract women on Y then perhaps Y emits some kind of anti-attractant that neutralizes F\'s attractant properties.

I think the above is pretty unlikely. So far I\'ve had no success with mones. I would hate to think that the reason that this is the case is that I am inherently repulsive. In fact, when not using mones I have, on infrequent occasion, had women smile at me and other women have struck up a conversation with me, so I am not yet ready to appeal to the patron saint of hopeless cases.

I would really like to see more data about the use of mones on nonhuman substrates. I say this because that would effectively eliminate the variable of the user\'s behavior. What if we find that mones are not effective on all substrates? That could possibly give us some clues as to the variability of mones\' effectiveness.

Please note that the published experiments where the attractiveness of T-shirts that someone slept in for a week do not count. Yes, the T-shirt substrate is nonhuman, but human mones were used. I am curious to find out what would happen if every Monday some mones were left out on a different substance: paper, fabric, leather, hamburger, wood, plastic.

Maybe someone with more of a scientific bent than I have could develop a protocol which we could test.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dunno if this counts: my boss is a smart-ass who loves to tease me ... I talked about pheromones to him once and lived to regret it ... for spite, I SOEed my desk everywhere I could think of to put it, and watched him, grinning to myself, spend roughly TWICE as much time hanging out at my desk than he ever did before or has since. The effect lasted about a week.

[Wolfe]

hum, well i\'m confused here. reason why is, i\'m male, and use female products much of the time(my prefered is AE/w-SoE)&lt;---( one out of 4-5 times i will add some TE/mu&lt;--wanna change that to RM soon) and i have been adding a EW solution as well lately, now i get some very good results with my stuff and isnt that a \'mixed signal\' mix ??
have i misread something or missed something somewhere??

[nonscents]

FTR,

OK, that worked. But do pheros always work on things and only sometimes work when applied on people? Maybe everyone should be putting it on their clothes a la that Sex Strap thing (I am assuming it\'s a European thing).

I don\'t want to put it on my clothes, though, because I am concerned about possible harmful effects. I\'ll experiment on myself but I don\'t want my wife and young son, whose laundry is mixed with mine, to be hapless guinea pigs.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don\'t know. I just keep working it \'till it works, and whatever works, that\'s what I do. They seem to work on me or on stuff, either way.

You could put them on a hankerchief or something, then take that out of your pocket when you put your clothes in the hamper.

[Wolfe]

well, don\'t *take*this wrongly, but, nothing you do is gonna stop them from being on your clothes,. no matter where they get applied..they disperse and cling and they get rubbed onto other things no matter how careful. Now i\'m no expert but i doubt that they would be affected by residual -mones anyways, not anymore than they are when around you anyways

[SonnyBlack]

this is a very good post....I would love it if more research went into this by some of our more professional forum members (JV KOHL, Dr Smell This, Irish, etc.)...the part about how maybe some people have repellent qualities that make them failures with girls no matter what is very interesting...IS IT POSSIBLE???

[Irish]

There\'s some research showing people send expression signals with their facial muscles in less than a second - esp. when they are covering true feelings or are conflicted. Slowing down tapes you can see the quick change in expression - not really noticable consciously in real time. But we pick up on that. Monkeys are even better facial readers, sending and receiving twitch messages in 1/12 of a second. So yeah, we send all kinds of signals, conscious and unconscious, verbal, nonverbal, smell, phero, visual, eye dilation, gestures, etc. Most of the time we don\'t realize we are sending/receiving. All that is how you can size people up quickly without really being able to consciously state why.

So yeah, it\'s quite possible we could send non-phero messages quite different than the gross synthetic pheros we smear on ourselves.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Could it be as simple as this: think of a pheromone as a color, say, -rone = purple. Purple looks great on me but it might not be your color at all. And even though purple looks great on me and I feel good in it, maybe you don\'t like redheads in purple, that combination doesn\'t flip your switch. Maybe you can\'t resist brunettes in red. None of that has anything to do with the intrinsic value of redheads or brunettes or the colors purple or red. It\'s just a matter of preference.

I think when you find your mix, it\'s your mix because it amplifies what you want to amplify about yourself and you feel good in it. It\'s your color, it flatters you, makes you look better.

You can\'t say that purple works or doesn\'t work or is bad or is good. Same thing with pheromones.

[CptKipling]

I think this is a good point.

But maybe it applies more to the ratio of what you are applying. It is possible to tailure mixes to your personality, and these ones tend to be the most affective to me.

[Gerund]

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Could it be as simple as this: think of a pheromone as a color, say, -rone = purple. Purple looks great on me but it might not be your color at all. And even though purple looks great on me and I feel good in it, maybe you don\'t like redheads in purple, that combination doesn\'t flip your switch. Maybe you can\'t resist brunettes in red. None of that has anything to do with the intrinsic value of redheads or brunettes or the colors purple or red. It\'s just a matter of preference.
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That\'s a brilliant analogy, FTR. It belongs in the pheromone reference material, or the FAQs. So many newbies are looking for the magic bullet, and need to be told it\'s going to be trial-and-error.

So many newbies post messages along the lines of: What\'s the absolute best? What will guarantee me success?

We could just point them to your analogy. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

{{smooch}}
thanks

[Gerund]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Wolfe]

\"That\'s a brilliant analogy, FTR. It belongs in the pheromone reference material, or the FAQs. So many newbies are looking for the magic bullet, and need to be told it\'s going to be trial-and-error. \"

\"So many newbies post messages along the lines of: What\'s the absolute best? What will guarantee me success?\"

They have been told several times, they don\'t listen [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[SonnyBlack]

welll whenever Ive used EW by itself in the past I notice that girls are alot nicer with me and more open...they also initiate the conversation with me when im wearing it....this never happens otherwise since I think that i suffer from the clint eastwood effect....