The Ginger Factor

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, Elana -- one of those find \'em, fool \'em, f*ck \'em and forget \'em e-books. That\'s great for relationship skills. And get it into your head that they don\'t know what they want, can\'t think straight, are only emotional, are inferior in pretty much every way, because THAT will help you form a loving and supportive relationship with a woman who\'s eager to please you in every way and make you happy.

[Whitehall]

If you\'re looking for a \"sensitive\" guy, look elsewhere, madam.

Of course, that\'s NOT what you want or need in a man. At least I know that I do not want a woman who acts like a man - I want a sensitive woman who acts like a woman. If she\'s a good enough woman, I\'ll put up with her complaining.

I am patient, polite, and understanding with the women in my life but I can\'t get emotionally involved in a woman\'s stream of complaining and whining. To do so is paralyzing and emasculating.

For example, our car tire goes flat -let\'s both just feel so bad about the flat tire and share those feelings, shall we? The \"Ginger\" route is the only way for a man to act and still be a man.

Darling Red, my countercriticism is that you want your cake and to eat it too - you only admire a man who gets things done but you expect him to listen to your complaints like a woman. I love you darling too - guess I\'ll just have to endure the blah-blah-blah-blah....

BTW, what I do is criticism, not complaining - big difference.

This anatomical/cold toliet seat comparison - what that a mixed metaphor?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Whitehall, begging your pardon, you have no idea what I want or need in a man.

What I want to know from you is, is your attitude giving you any success?

Is your masculinity so easily threatened that talking about feelings is emasculating? Or letting HER talk about her feelings, at least? That can\'t be managed, either?

How do you expect a woman to feel for you, then?

And do you think that the constant criticism is conducive to any kind of success with a woman? You just hit me when I was down. Do you get off on that? You\'ve been kind enough to me in other ways and other instances that I continue to look beyond the incredibly demeaning things you say about women. But it\'s not that I don\'t see them. And I don\'t think they\'re doing you any good.

But if you\'d rather be right than be successful, hey.

[Wolfe]

a oak tree that can not bend in the wind will break in the end

[cuddlebear]

Well, it\'s turned a little ugly here .. Shame because I want to know everything I can about the woman\'s standpoint ... was Wolfe on the money when he said \"hold her and let her know you\'ll be there\"?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

We\'re talking \"man to man\" with mutual respect. It\'s not getting ugly. It\'s being truthful.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

that tirade is absolutely and completely off-topic. there isn\'t even a remote connection to pheromones.

it should be in off topic. it\'s even less topical than that awful Ghostclown thread. at least that had a loose tie to mones.

move this garbage to the right board and let them curse the evil misogynists who called for it. clearly, the only reason it even posted in the main forum is the fact that this individual feels they have such stature that they can spin their emotional, outrageously generalized tapestry in the face of every Joe six pack visiting for the latest on Swinger, KR1 or to ask DrSmell something, whatever..

looking for hit stories, brothers? hear a blanket statement about how bad men are for your trouble..

telling your hit stories, guys? look out for someone asking you \"were you listening to her?\" \"how about making her dinner?\" \"how about holding her?\" if your story doesn\'t fulfill certain female forum members romantic ideal, you better be prepared. there\'s as much judgment as their is a lack of guy chat. wonder why that is?

more hit stories, from guys, in the guy forum, leave your judgments at the door.

to be constructive for when the thread moves.. whitehall was absolutely right: it\'s a two-way street. look at behaviors you display that allow disrespect to continue - are you too demanding of people\'s attention? bueller? -you- put up these rants fully knowing they\'re out of place and against (casual) rules. that diagnosis kinda writes itself.

just as an editorial, though, the most amusing thing for this fella was that FTR, person who circled the wagons on the Ghostclown thing, a bit later in a hit report of her own said it was a married guy and that -wasn\'t- necessarily a concern.. now DrSmell was on point in that thread, but the later revelation made ME chortle and enjoy a \"that\'s women for you.\"


and hey, Bruce... do feminists secretly own 51% of Love-Scent or something? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

that\'s a joke.

and the next time I decide to think all women are hos, or all women are too emotional, too demanding of some ideal, they are too materialistic... (met em all, but I try not to generalize)... I\'ll be sure to write it up as quick as possible and toss it up on the women\'s forum.

hey, i\'ll even hire a royal butt kisser to say how appropriate it is in the wrong forum.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The first thing I said, Joshua, was that this was off topic.

You obviously haven\'t read the women\'s forum. The guys come on it constantly and diss women.

The rest of what you wrote is not worth responding to.

[Elana]

Is that Pet? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Wolfe]

Don\'t like it..DON\'T READ IT

[**DONOTDELETE**]

No. Pet\'s smarter, a better writer, and a much more careful reader.

[Elana]

or maybe tounge [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I acknowleged that the first thing you said was that this was off-topic. that makes it worse, in fact, since you are aware of the way things work and choose to think you\'re above such trivial concerns.

the men *must* be made aware of how bad we are? probably the same person who helped lobby for creation of a womans forum uses this one to broadcast the most important tripe from the soapbox..

[Wolfe]

heh [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have no idea who you are, but it\'s obvious you\'re not a fan.

What\'s your point?

If you don\'t like this thread, maybe you have better things to do than read it.

[Wolfe]

you guys have kinda left cuddles hanging though, he asked if what i said was the best us men could do,,was i?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

yes

[**DONOTDELETE**]

quite frankly, your arrogance and dismissal only emphasizes the shallow way in which you operate. your insecurity practically leaps at the reader.

of course, your wisest choice is to ignore. but just understand that your actions dont go unnoticed.. and if I wasnt so lazy I\'d link people to the thread where youre tossing judgments like rice at a wedding, and you end up looking about as foolish as you are.

but I wouldn\'t know how to respond to you - I wasn\'t listening.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

so wait, you\'re telling me I should follow some rule of not reading what I don\'t like, when -you- are the one who went to the effort to post it here against better judgment?

how about that wild haired idea of posting it where it belongs in the first place?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Link them up. Most people have read it anyway. My deficiencies are not the point of this thread and frankly, you\'re tiresome to me and I\'d prefer not to engage with you. I fought my battle back on that thread. You STILL don\'t get the point. It doesn\'t matter to me anymore.

Was there something you wanted to contribute about men and women\'s communication styles being antithetical, thereby killing passion between them? Or was this just a I HATE FTR thread for you?

[Whitehall]

Not trying to hurt your feelings. When you\'re strong, you love witty banter - you\'re a regular Noel Coward at it. Call me insensitive for not realizing how down you are now - that\'s fair.

Just pointing out, in less diplomatic terms than Irish might, that men have a counter-viewpoint and a different self-interest.

While I seek your respect and continued interactions, I do not intend for anyone I communicate with via the internet to develop a true emotional attachment to me. There\'s no hope of love that way.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You didn\'t hurt my feelings. I\'m used to you. I KNOW men have a counter viewpoint. That\'s about all we hear. I was trying to get the women\'s side across.

As usual, you\'d prefer not to hear what a woman has to say.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

P.S. A true emotional attachment??

I\'m Southern. We\'re effusive. Don\'t take it personally.


ANYWAY.

John Gray is good on the subject of male/female communication styles.

Irish, where did you get your knowledge about it from? Any books you can recommend?

[Wolfe]

quite frankly you\'re butting in where your not wanted so go away

[**DONOTDELETE**]

an I hate FTR thread? don\'t flatter yourself. I\'m glad you\'re able to label me tiresome and unintelligent already.

as far as your deficencies are concerned, the whole point is the annoyance factor. the annoying quality of someone spouting their romantic ideals all over the place, right after they relate their multiple orgy experiences, mention their having more phone sex friends than a 900 line, and ponder the idea of sleeping with married men..

that\'s ABSOLUTELY the person I want to have pontificating about what\'s wrong with what men bring to the table.

and apparently you\'re the one who didn\'t get it. I\'ll spell it out - I think that dynamic stops a lot of the hit stories from coming out at all. not one person, but theres obviously a serious dropoff from when you go back into the archives..

was there a Sanctimonious Chick Brigade then? and the emasculated hangers on? I\'m thinking no....

[Whitehall]

\"As usual, you\'d prefer not to hear what a woman has to say.\"

Like most people, I prefer listening to discussions that reinforce my own prejudices.

Still love you, darling. Thanks for putting up with me.

[Wolfe]

nope..mostly just alot of punk kids babbling about something many teens babble about w/o really having ever had it........................
not to mention you\'re proving her right with your attitude.


\"Stick your head in the sand, somebody will come along and shoot your ass off\"
[i] Wolfe

[Wolfe]

tell me something. just what is your purpose in attacting a woman?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Wolfe, Yes and Yes!
And Joshua, I never said you were not intelligent. Tiresome is what I said. Apparently I\'m not alone in that opinion. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Whitehall, love you too, babe. No harm no foul.

[Irish]

I read a great book years ago - unfortunately forgot the title and author! She was a PhD/Communications - don\'t know how to retrieve it now. The author discussed women\'s \'trouble talk\', used to find solace in bad times and to form deeper bonds with others (usually other women, since men typically don\'t do this). She traced gender conversation styles back to childhood patterns (implying it was inborn to some degree). Commented directly on the frustration women feel about men \'not listening\', defended men to some degree based on the male-male pattern men mistakenly use with women. I thought the author didn\'t fully understand male conversation however, as she painted all male interaction as hierarchal, when all men know there is also a \'comrade\' male relationship - maybe the strongest within our own gender. Anyway, that\'s a poor review of a book I can\'t identify anymore. But my experience backs up the general idea - men and women often talk for different internal reasons, and becuase of differing styles/expectations can misread the responses of the other gender.

Bright social people should be able to realize this and accommodate one another. But that\'s not to excuse louts and shrews, who have a more real and deeper problem than poor conversation skills.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ll do some searching this afternoon and see if I can find that book.

-- \'trouble talk\', used to find **solace in bad times** and to form deeper bonds with others --
One time I did manage, and I can\'t remember what magic words I used, to get this idea across to SDR - and he said \"You make me feel so big and strong.\"

Which was elating because that\'s part of the purpose, to be able to talk to someone who is bigger and stronger.

I know that\'s not exactly \"real world\" maybe, maybe it IS romantic, but ... what\'s wrong with that?

Just seems maybe if we knew how to talk to one another better we could enjoy each other more. Rather than see it as complaining, see it as her trying to be close to you; rather than see it as emasculating, see it as her needing your strength and understanding.