NPA and Impression Duration

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ve seen a number of posts referring to the alleged short term effect of NPA. I would very much appreciate it if some of the Pharaohs would weigh in on this topic, as it sounds like a load of codswallop to me. Whitehall, Oscar, a.k.a...what are your opinions? As far as I can see, NPA is effective at getting attention. Does it create a long lasting impression? How the hell can one tell? I would argue that once you get the hit, making a long-lasting impression is up to you, not the pheros. If you get to the point where you have a woman\'s attention long enough to engage her in conversation and get her phone number, you\'ve had enough time to make an impresion of your own. If you fail, that isn\'t the fault of the mix, it\'s the fault of the user. \'long term\' relationships are based on a completely different set of criteria than the ones that are aroused by properly mixed pheros. Of course, a good whiff of -none has been known to illicit sex dreams in the subject, which can have a nice longer-term effect, but this has actually been reported as happening more often in connection with NPA than PI.

Does this mean that I discount the quality of the PI effectiveness? Hell no. I just want to make sure that this anecdotal dismissal of NPA doesn\'t become inaccurate conventional wisdom without more discussion. The forum is much more useful as a place to get solid information than as a place for people to jock their pet mixes.

[krtel]

It has been said by other members as well as myself that NPA dosen\'t leave a lasting impression. It\'s just my experience. Although, NPA has it\'s benefits over PI because it has secret ingreidients in it, looking outside of just sexual purposes, PI is the one that prevails. The effects of PI on the job have been better. It\'s aided me at work. I\'ve managed to leave a very good impression on all the managers where I work. However, I think NPA used in conjunction with PI and a source of *rone would leave lasting impressions.

- Krish

[Watcher]

IT has anone in it, which means that the effect will only draw attention to wearer increasing the impact of any interaction as it has the effect of the other persons sex drive focusing on this \"alpha male\" with elavated androgen levels.
You will have to refer to james kohl for this i think, but id say NPA is best used within mixes moreso than as a standalone product.

[oscar]

Sympatible,

Long answer:
I\'m not a subscriber to the so-called \"24 Hour Rule\" that has been attributed to NPA when it is compared with PI.
The reason that I don\'t buy this concept as a theory, much less as a \"rule\" is that I see once again that a particular sentence or phrase that has appeared on this forum has been misinterpreted and subsequently misapplied ad infinitum.

The classic interpretation of the \"24 Hour Rule\" is one of female regret.
It goes something like this in a females mind: \"WHY did I dance with / kiss / give my number to / take home / f*ck / that guy I met last night???\".

A forum reference for this can be found here:
http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=12 000&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words =24&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=11&am p;Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=11996

Now in a later post by BassMan, he makes reference to the concept that it seems that \"...PI is more stable, attracting women who can withstand the 24 hour rule.\"

http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=33 201&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words =24&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=2&amp ;Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=33070

In this instance the comparison between PI and NPA is being applied to the attraction of the right women, those who \"can withstand the 24 hour rule.\", NOT attributing any powers of duration or \"time release\" ability to any particular phero product.

I\'ve seen the \"24 hour rule\" so incredibly stretched to the limit that I recall one post where a forum member claimed that a girl that he\'d met on a weekend had called him the following Thursday as a result of his having fortuitously worn PI rather than NPA. This made me (and I will spell it out) laugh out loud.

A molecule of Androstenone is a molecule of Androstenone, whether its source be PI, NPA, RM, or any of the others. To my knowledge none of the pheromone suppliers that we deal with have figured out a way of putting a time release coating on any of these molecules, so when the females exposure to the chemicals has ceased, all that is left is the impression that YOU as the phero wearer have made. Whether or not the female will remember you favorably, unfavorably, or at all, has a great deal more to do with who she is, and how she saw you.

From this we might deduce that the \"24 hour rule\" is female specific, and no one product will better one\'s chances with a woman who is prone to \"Lover\'s Remorse\". While we can still postulate that one products broader appeal (specifically NPA) will make us more likely to be the victim of that remorse, while the other product (PI) will lessen the chances of this occurring, only because it cuts a much more narrow swath in terms of its appeal.

But applying what has come to be known as the 24 hour rule of NPA to all women as a group is simply wrong in my opinion. The right woman will remember you just as favorably 24, 48, 72 hours or more later, whether it was NPA or PI that you wore. The woman prone to be remorseful will be so regardless of the product used.

It\'s fairly easy to propose a theory. It\'s harder to dispute one. It\'s quite difficult to de-bunk a \"rule\" that was never so much as presented as an hypothesis, but rather evolved through misinterpretation and misapplication of a few key phrases that just happened to appear in the same paragraph.

It\'s regrettable that we often do this here on the forum.
Who really knows for sure that Androsterone, for instance, conjures the impression of dependability or reliability? Are there scientific studies that have proven this? I haven\'t seen any. Unfortunately in the absence of much scientific research on pheromones and their effects, much of what we are left to rely upon is anecdotal \"evidence\". Somebody posts something, and a whole lot of us accept it as fact.
We\'re certainly entitled to accept such things as fact if we want to, but we don\'t have to.
But that\'s another thread.

Short answer:
Yes, codswallop.

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[upsidedown]

Very good post Oscar.. I like what I\'m hearing in your thoughts.

[Elana]

Oscar-I have to give you some serious credit. Excellent post, very good work.

[cuddlebear]

I know nothing about NPA, but I wanted to comment on the \"timed-release\" thing .. I think it would be major-cool if someone would find a way to do this with mones the way they\'re done with certain vitamins. I wonder if any research of this nature exists. Cuddles, a PHERO DUDE [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[krtel]

I beg to differ when you say \"A molecule of Androstenone is a molecule of Androstenone, whether its source be PI, NPA, RM, or any of the others.\" -- If this is the case, then why is RM known hits different than PI/m? I think that while the chemical might be the same, the way it is processed and created matters. All NONE\'s are not equal, at least from my experience. I got some nice hits with NPA, but as I stated in my earlier posts on this thread, they were only consistent and pro-longed with PI/m.

With that said, there has to be some difference in the different producers NONE because if there weren\'t, then all products should deliver the same results.

- Krish

[Watcher]

I think that it is the other things that arent quite purified out of the end product that arent disclosed in the compound list that come with the products. There are some compounds that end up going along with the end product that i think effect the different types of products. Ie how refined the end product is (that is why stone labs products tend to work better than say PI or Andro 4.2) RM is also made by stone labs. NPA cant be compared to RM and other Anone products because the secret ingredients seem to really effect the end product result. Until those substances are known comments need to be along the line of individual products. I like to experiment with chem set aNone as it will serve as a baseline. But no products are 100% pure. Also as soon as the product hits an individuals skin it is broken down by their skin bacteria, and each person will break it down differently making different responses from others coming under the effect of pheromones.
Just remember not all Anone breakdowns end up giving the same sort of results, we need to breakdown the discussion into individual products, That said the same thing happens with ANol ie Attraction and PI(W) and SOE.

[oscar]

Krish,

\"I beg to differ when you say \"A molecule of Androstenone is a molecule of Androstenone, whether its source be PI, NPA, RM, or any of the others.\" \"

I was all set to argue this statement, asking you how you figured that molecules of the same compound could somehow be different, but this does evidently have some basis in fact:
http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=31282& amp;page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

But I believe that we\'re dealing with identical compounds that seem to exhibit different characteristics more because of how they are delivered by the carriers employed, as well as a consequence of their initial purity.

A longer lasting effect from PI (and I\'m conceding to hours here, not days) may well be attributable to its being an oil based product, providing sustained release.
Also, the intensity of the aroma from any one a-None product vs. another may have to do with the integrity of the lab process employed to synthesize it. And as A-None is supposedly a compound that acts on the olfactory sense, this too may be relevant.

From LaCroy:
\"Comparatively, smell messages form the Olfactory organ travels to a different part of the brain.
Olfactory pheromones include products like Androstenone. Researches have shown in clinical experiments that Androstenone triggers a subconscious sexual response in woman.\"
http://www.nhance.co.za/moreinfo.htm

The following comes from Stone:
\"The odors found in pheromone products are only partly associated with pheromones themselves.Many of the more offensive detectable odors are actually caused by ester impurities in the raw materials commonly used in these products.\"
-Stone Independent Research
http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/newreply.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=46425& amp;page=0&view=collapsed&what=showflat&am p;sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Now given these possible variables that might lead us to believe that one Androstenone product produces a dramatically (or even subtly) different dynamic than another, I still maintain that given the impossibility of meeting the same woman on the same day under identical circumstances twice, wearing different A-None products each time, it would be extremely difficult to prove.

Anecdotal evidence is pretty much the bulk of the information that we, the masses, are able to attain regarding pheromones. Tell me enough good stories backing your hypotheses and I\'ll certainly accept them as valid theories. But please don\'t present them as \"rules\".

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Watcher]

Lets keep this discussion open ended until we get hard evidience.

[Gerund]

hmm... \"Hard Evidence\" No, I won\'t do it -- it\'s just too easy.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[dpguy]

Wait a minute....I think I get it

[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Dpguy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m not arguing that there isn\'t a difference in product, I\'m simply arguing that blaming NPA if the impression made on a target isn\'t long-lasting is a lot like blaming the waiter if you choke on your food (He brought it to you, which was his job. If you can\'t chew and swallow it properly, that isn\'t his fault). If the wearer is doing what he should, then an impression should be made because once the none has reeled the target in, your own natural charm and wit take over. Pheros are not a substituted for closing skills.

[MaxiMog]

Wasn\'t hard to get, was it, Double-Penetration-guy? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[BassMan]

Great post, Oscar.

I have a bit of regret meselfs that I ever posted about \"female regret\" in the first place.

My original post (as vickde - names got changed in the great forum crash at the beginning of the year) about the \"24 hour rule\" came from a series of discussions that occurred last year between myself and a couple of close friends regarding the nature of communications - particularly the process of building spaces within which the process of understanding another person\'s symbolic representation of reality could be explored. And more particularly, the limitations of such understanding based on the individual nature of symbol sets in general. Out of these conversations came an understanding that such exploration required the creation of agreements concerning the nature of reality that might seem perfectly natural at the time of their creation, but significantly stretched the limits of each party\'s conventional thinking. In other words - after such conversation, one wakes up the next morning going \"huh?\"

There seemed to be several time frames for this reaction - sometimes the next morning, sometimes a day or two. Hence, the 12, 24, and 72 hour \"rules\".

My best friend, who was quite involved in these conversations, is a female quite aware of the similar time-frames of, as you put it, \"female regret.\" We were both quite amused at the parallels in reactions to both mental and sexual explorations.

My second post (as Bassman), reflected that fact that in my own experience, the strength of the sexual pull of NPA/Edge tends to attract women that I\'m not particularly compatible with.

It was only a short leap to apply the term \"24 hour rule\" to such a happenstance.

I intended that post to demonstrate the strong sexual nature of LaCroy\'s products, not particularly to imply that they would necessarily attract incompatible women to anyone except myself [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

-Bass

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I dunno about all the nature of reality part of this discussion.

But I do know it\'s true that if I go too far with someone I hope to have some sort of actual relationship with, too early in the game, I often have huge anxiety afterwards and wish I had been more prudent.

And I was glad to see that recognized here -- that\'s how I read the 24 hour thing.

Just to maybe further muddy the waters.

[cuddlebear]

I\'ve been following this thread but not commenting, due to one very good reason: I\'ve never used NPA. But I do have a question, if NPA really is a short-term product, then why?? What are the possible reasons for a shorter lasting time?

[krtel]

That is a good question I don\'t think anyone but LaCroy can really answer that. I am certain it has something to do with the secret ingreidients, but can\'t really explain it.

I respect the other;s argument that it is solely up to the wearer to make a good impression, but when I say this stuff, I say it from personal experience. I remember when I was wearing NPA, I\'d get instant female attention, but the next day, \"oh, huh, who are you? oh yeah, hi.\"

With PI/m it\'s been different - they actually remember me.

- Krish

[cuddlebear]

Strange. I guess one of our resident lab rats would have to explain why one None would last less time than another. Impurities perhaps? Interaction with \"secret ingredients\"? But if that\'s your experience, I don\'t blame you for sticking with PI. Cuddles [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

krish:
I\'m glad you share your experience. Since we\'re all learning as we go along, honest information is definitely of great value. I\'m not disputing your experience at all, I\'m just trying to keep your experience from becoming a \'rule\' of pheros without sufficient corroboration from other users. Frankly, I\'ve gotten several of \"I had the wildest dream about you last night\" responses from regular NPA use, so I think NPA manages to make an imprint of it\'s own. What you report definitely raises my interest in giving PI a better trial...

[Icemone]

Hi FullTiltRedhead,

Could you please share some more about this?
\"female regret\" I would very much like to avoid this
type of situation and learn how to ease it into a more
solid relationship.

Especially how YOU yourself were able to come
to grips with what happened-----so you could enjoy
the Man\'s company from then on.

( or a friend\'s experience-----what did she do in order
to feel OK with things and to CONTINE to enjoy the relationship )

Also, was there anything a Man did or could/should do/should NOT do to help with this?
For a woman to feel respected and
comfortable with how quickly things progressed.

Thanks in advance

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Icemone.

It\'s very simple. The guy needs to call the very next day and say nice things and, even better, make a plan to see me again soon.

If I go too far with someone and then he doesn\'t call for days, by the time he does call, I\'ve worked myself into a tizzy thinking the reason he hasn\'t called is that he was just using me or he thinks something bad about me because I let things get out of hand, and now I\'ve been dropped.

Five days later, or I\'ve even seen guys on this forum talk about longer than that, if he did finally call after that long a time, I\'d think either what we did made no impression on him whatsoever, while it meant something to me, so that\'s bad ... or, that it did mean something to him, he wants to see me again, and the reason he hasn\'t called is that he\'s playing me ...and that\'s worse.

I\'m a firm believer in the morning after call. Not only for first times, but for every time the relationship advances physically.

It\'s nice even after you\'ve been together long enough that you\'ve done everything two human beings can do together at least once, too. It\'s just good policy, to reinforce your presence and to make her feel appreciated.

[xvs]

Yeah, my rule is... you can wait a day to call after a heavy make-out session, but after sex, call the next day.

[Wolfe]

i guess sometimes being very ol\' fashioned has advantages as having a \'1 night stand\' just has never really turned my crank. Now you other guys, look here, i know some of you gonna say \" pass up a piece just cause?!?!?!\", and my answer is damn right. I\'ve always wanted to know the woman i was with BEFORE i tossed her into the sack and in those situations there was never any \'morning after\' regrets .(not to mention plenty of \'return\' trips.)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

For a lot of women, though, it doesn\'t even have to be sex. It could just be kissing and touching. If she lost control at all or was anywhere near what anyone could call \"slutty,\" she\'s very likely going to be re-thinking the next day. And by the end of that next day, if she hasn\'t heard from you to tell her different, pretty well have her mind made up that you think she\'s a slut because she let you (fill in the blank). IMO, if you don\'t reinforce her behavior pretty immediately, you\'ve already lost points. Women generally need praise and reassurance in order to feel good about letting go. The more you tell her you loved it when she did whatever, or she was so beautiful when blah blah happened between the two of you, the more she\'ll relax and let you do things.

You have to remember how hard we\'re indoctrinated NOT to let you do stuff. Or act like we enjoy it.

[Lucky]

Like FTR said, it IS very simple. Some things just require good manners....this is one of them.

[Elana]

Exactly Lucky....it\'s just the right thing to do. A man shouldn\'t even have to think about it.

[Watcher]

Well just comment where you can, NPA isnt a short lived product, well not when mixed with something like SOE anyway. Possibly because it is an alcohol based product it evorparates faster than oil based ones like SOE etc.

[Icemone]

Thanks FullTiltRedhead, Elena, all,

Not sure how to edit this LONG
Rollercoaster ride story.

I did all of those things you mentioned
and we actually spent the
whole weekend together and had Breakfast together
before she walked me back to my train.

I did everything I could think of to make sure she
felt great both physically and emotionally
and that she KNEW I wanted to keep seeing
her.

( she told me later on that she\'d experienced
more pleasure
with me in a few days than with her ex-boyfriendfor 2 1/2 YEARS----later
on she told me I was ONLY HER 2nd LOVER EVER!!!
This might explain some of her confusing behavior [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I called her the next day and INVITED her to a
Jazz Concert that a friend of mine was playing.
This would be about 5 days later.
I invited her
because I knew how much she liked Jazz\'
and because I wanted to see her again.
Also, so she could meet my friends.
( not
something you do with \"just\"
a one-nightstand, right?)

I even bought her a special gift that we\'d talked
about earlier.

She sounded thrilled about the concert and
couldn\'t wait to see me again, either.

Guess what?
SHE NEVER SHOWED UP that night!!!

( I got another woman\'s phone number
on the way home after getting into a
better mood. I\'m meeting her a few
nights from now. This is not meant to
be a \"poor me\" story---just want to
learn how to avoid this type of situation.)

First I was worried and then angry because
I\'d made reservations, etc. and she KNEW
how this would bother me. We talked about
what were the MOST IMPORTANT qualities
in a Relationship and she agreed with me.

I did my best to have a good time with my
friends ( who didn\'t tease me too much LOL
about another \"flake\" I REALLY thought
this woman was a keeper )

So after a few E-mails and phone calls I finally
talk with her and she is sobbing and begging my
forgiveness. Never actually did explain herself.

Since English is not her first language I gave her the
benefit of the doubt that she had somehow misunderstood me?
( yet she has an OUTRAGEOUSY Technical Job---not
quite a Rocket Scientist but awfully close )
and I REALLY
felt we have the potential for something special, I agreed
to meet with her ( Her idea, she pleaded )

I STILL don\'t understand why she did that and after a
little while
we started getting more Romantic again
and we talked more about
communication and how we
wanted to understand eachother and avoid these kinds
of misunderstanding.

So after about 3 hours together talking, cuddling ( despite
both of us having a bit of a cold---she still couldn\'t keep
her hands or eyes off of me---same for me )

P.s. She LOVED the gift and started to cry.
Then some tourists told us we made the
most AMAZING couple and took a few picture
of us together.

Guess what now?

She went to visit a college girlfriend for a
long weekend and so we missed another
holiday togher ( not HER holidays, so who
cares, right? )

And now I haven\'t heard back from
her since.

Looks like maybe only one of us thought
it was more than a Weeken-Stand?

Maybe she moved there? LOL and
it\'s time for me to MOVE ON.