Chem Set Pheromone Quality

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What is the Quality of Pheromones that come in the Chem Set in relation to products such as PI, AE, and SOE? Is it possible to re-create commercial pheromones using the chem set and getting somewhat near the same results?

[Walter_Mitty]

Chem set quality is very high. Stone Labs has actually checked out its stuff for us when users here have asked about it. The re-creation of some of the mixes is not hard, but others are proprietary, and your guess is as good as anyones. I find that the mix is not always the hard part. But, applying the same quanity as the products I am trying to mimic can be frustrating. Also the Chem kits are expensive, so if you are going to dive in, go search the archives and get yourself a good bit of knowledge about the sets. Happy mixin if you do grab a set fer the holidaze.

[Zap]

Good question....particularly, if we consider products such as NPA having \"secret ingredients\"....I suppose it is difficult to reproduce NPA using the chem. set. I do not know if there are other products difficult to imitiate....I think if one can afford to buy the chem. set, it is ok to get it but it is important to have the most successful products such as NPA, SOE or PI....I do not know either if PI can be reproduced..

[CptKipling]

Its impossible to create NPA from the Chem set, not just because of the secret stuff, but also the differing types of -none. That doesn\'t mean that certain replicas won\'t work, but they will be different.

[krtel]

IMHO Primal cannot be reproduced as Stone Labs none is completly different from the none used in PI. Maybe you can reproduce it weight-wise, but certainly not quality-wise.

- Krish

[**DONOTDELETE**]

By \"cannot immitate quality\"; do you mean that the process of making the primal instinct pheromone, or do you mean that primal instinct uses a totally different kind of Andestrenone?

[krtel]

Well, Stone Labs products and Primal both contain androstenone, except people respond different to Primal\'s none and Stone Labs none. All nones are not created equally!

- Krish

[SonnyBlack]

i second your opinion....

[Gerund]

It\'s kinda confusing, isn\'t it?

I have to wonder if it\'s the \"carrier\" that the stenone is added to that accounts for the difference in responses, and duration of effectiveness... you know, whether it\'s mixed in with oil, or alcohol, or whatever.

I\'m not savvy about chemistry, but it would seem that stenone is stenone is stenone, if you get my drift. So I lean toward attributing performance differences to whatever \"carrier\" or \"vehicle\" the phero is mixed into~ Thoughts, anyone?

[krtel]

I honestly think it is the strong odor that is responsible for sexual hits.

- Krish

[xvs]

The fact is that androstenone is androstenone. It\'s one chemical. Either something is androstenone or it isn\'t.

That being said, chemicals do come in different purity levels. The best typical quality are 98-99% pure or even purer. Even with these, there\'s that 1-2% of \"something else\", which could be other steroids, or more likely is something inert, left over from purification.

But there are different qualities and even different synthetic methods of producing these compounds, so the impurities found in one company\'s androstenone may be different from those found in another company\'s product. And some companies may use cheaper, 96% pure or lower quality chemicals, leaving more impurities and a different odor.

It\'s even slightly possible that some lower-purity androstenone has a mix of other steroids in there, as impurities, and that some of these just happen to be active. I think it\'s unlikely, still, you never know...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Everybody screeches and moans about how bad EW smells...and just say in passing the TE/w is stinky.

GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY stinky doesn\'t even begin to describe it. To me, that stuff\'s worse than any amount of EW. Reeek ola. and I don\'t mean the cough drop.

And when it dries down it just smells like a dirty clothes hamper to me.

But it works.

TE/w is partly dirty -none, right?

[krtel]

Yup, from my understanding, TE/w has some of LaCroy anone in it.

- Krish

[Walter_Mitty]

Well, let me weigh in one more time... I agree with xvs on the point that other things might be in there. And honestly, they are probably very close to none. Imagine trying to purify things that are close to identical, maybe an -OH group or a keto group difference. Major pain in the rear. But, I will say this, the stone labs chem kits come with crystallized product in the bottle. Folks, crystals are pure. Only one thing in there, then it is a crystal. Ask a chemist about it (I will exclude myself for this one time...)

Next up, the carrier. Damn straight it will have an effect. While your skin is primarily protein and oil, adding more oil to it (ala PI) will change the local environment that the phero is in, and also change its rate of going into the vapor (air) phase. The Alcohol products, when applied, lose the alcohol in a matter of a minute or two. This leaves to pheros behind, and they disperse as they please. Also, oils will hold onto other aromas while EtOH will not.

The last point to make is, I often wonder about the mixes? Is it the mix or my mood/self image because of the mix. As a rule, we really do not know all that much about pheros, and most of what is reported here is circumstantial. Does it work to a greater or lesser degree if I think it is a good mix? I doubt that we will answer that, but I do think it makes a difference.

But, to get back to the original point, just like table sugar from a sugar beet is the same as that from a sugar cane, -none is -none.

[Lutz]

Walter, thanks for the insight! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[CptKipling]

Maybe someone could try and crystallise NPA

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You sais the androstenones are different. How so? I\'m new to this stuf, but I thought we were dealing with 5 alpha-androstent-16-en-3-one. Are there other conformations??

[krtel]

The way it is processed and purified is different. It\'s the same substance.

- Krish