Calling All EW users

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Unless there\'s a chemical reason alcohol is bad for EW, I\'d favor diluting with alcohol instead of water. Alcohol-based, it should mix well with just about anything (perfumes, colognes, oils, lotions, and further alcohol and water based dilutions). Water-based EW won\'t mix with oils. I also think alcohol makes a better preservative than water.

Possible negatives to alcohol are it may irritate some skin, and it may break down the fatty acids in the EW, but I don\'t know enough about this, so I defer to the chemists on this point. I suspect that water can also break down EW, especially if it isn\'t pure distilled. Alcohol-based, it may also release a more intense scent until the alcohol has all evaporated.

Bruce,

I live in Portland. I visit Eugene every few weeks!

Ptolemy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Regarding your spray bottle with the cloudy solution of EW in water, and just groping for data:

How long had the mix been sitting? Was it by any heat source? Had the spray bottle held anything prior to your mix that may have left a contaminant? Was the water distilled or tap? Has the scent changed? What was the concentration of EW to water? Since shaking it, has the cloudiness disolved into the water, or condensed back to the surface? Has it changed color? Do you suspect it is ALIVE?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It sat for about a week. Not near a heat source. No residue in the bottle to begin with. Bottled spring water. No scent change. EW to water was 1:10000. Since shaking, some of the cloudiness has disolved back into the water, but there are still particles floating around, suspended in the water, not on the surface. It hasn\'t changed color.


I could very well be ALIVE.... lol

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is a mystery! It could be a chemical or biological effect; we are dealing with organic chemistry. My 1:500 EW in water mix has remained crystal clear for over 5 weeks now. I used distilled water in a 2 oz glass bottle kept at room temperature in the dark. The only change I notice is the scent has become less potent. Perhaps your mix has a contaminant in it, or is reacting to the walls of the spray bottle (plastic?). Was your bottle left in the sun or bright light, possibly causing a photochemical reaction? Could it be in a place that gets very cold, causing the EW to condense out? Could the bottled spring water you used have minerals in it for the EW to combine with? Possible experiement: Rinse out the spray bottle and fill with just the spring water, no EW. Leave on your shelf for a week and see what happens. Also examine the original shipping bottle of EW. Any solids floating in it (hard to see in due to the dark glass)?

[CJ01]

FTR try using distilled water and ethanol 50-70%. And store the mix in a cold place. And maybe use a glass container if you´re not doing that already.

[MadMaxx]

FTR, I have a mix which was done with mostly water(the first mix I did), and it is still fine. Nothing gross has happened to it. I has been several weeks, if not months, since I ordered my EW the first day Bruce said it was shipping. My solution has always been a bit cloudy and white, but that happened when I put some perfume into the water solution. The white cloudiness doesn\'t bother me though. Definitely no solids and no scum!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\'tis a puzzlement.


I\'ll try a new glass container.

[Bruce]

Maxx,
What is your feeling about cutting the indole content in half? Do you think there is any danger of losing the good effects?
Bruce

[CptKipling]

I know it wasnt aimed at me, but here\'s my in put.

The indole is definately the most apparent (and offensive) at lower concentrations, in the region of 1/100 to about 1/1000. Above that and with a gentile fragrance the smell isn\'t bad. Perhaps cutting the indole would give us an opportunity to test more thoroughly, because at the moment it puts me off anything where I can really smell the EW. My latest experiments have been with quite low concentrations, in the region of 1/3000. Thats mostly an alcohol base BTW.

[Bruce]

Hi Capt,
All input is welcome. I have been leaning towards cutting the indole 50%, but start getting cold feet when I think about the fantastic results that Maxx has been getting. We need to dilute at least 1:100, that is clear, but the rest is a little cloudy. I have a sample with no indole at all and it smells like overripe grapes to me. I think we need at least a little of that cheezy note or we are going to lose results. It is hard to keep things in perspective with the extreme concentration we have now. Let\'s try a 1:100 with half the indole and see what happens.
Thanks,
Bruce

[Whitehall]

A major problem with any product using EW is stability. The fully concentrated samples change within weeks, opened or not. Perhaps in a diluted form, adding an anti-oxidant or similar preservative would be necessary. In end-user preparations, a fixative is almost necessary to better blend the aromas.

[MadMaxx]

Bruce, I can\'t be sure whether we would lose effect or not by cutting indole, since I haven\'t compared the current product to one with less indole. What I can say is that I use a dozen drops or so of my mix daily; my mix being 2 or 3 drops in an ounce of mostly water. Even at that level, and with the amount I wear, I don\'t really find the indole to be a problem. The only time it slightly bothers me might be when I go salsa dancing, which is a pretty intense workout, and I get pretty heated up to say the least. That is when I can detect \"poopiness\" as FTR calls it. I don\'t know whether it is a problem though, and furthermore, it may indeed be necessary. I kind of like the \"dirty\" smell of it, and I wouldn\'t doubt that a lot of women do to. Seriously, some women want to get so close to me that I cant\'t even dance with them properly because they are crowding me to the point that I can\'t move my arms to execute the moves. The odd woman also appears to want to rape me with my clothes on and all. I favor the indole, and I believe that something low on indole may just smell like vinegar or fermented grapes, or whatever. I can detect enough acidity as it is. The point of what I am saying is that I don\'t think people find my smell offensive. The people I ask are not consciously aware of anything other than my perfume. I remember Whitehall or somebody on another thread said something about trying to make a 5 phero mix that smelled like a combination of his armpits, crotch, and rearend. He said that if he accomplished that, then he would have the ultimate. I guess I kind of think along his lines, although not exactly. I mean what do people want? We are trying to smell like pussy to attract a person who is turned on by pussy, whether they be male or female, but these people are asking for something that smells all rosy. Smelly all rosy isn\'t going to conjure up images of wild, passionate, hot copulation. I think we need something a little \"dirtier\".

Anyway, I still can\'t figure out all these people who talk about too much idole at dilution rates of a few thousand to one. I mentioned again and again the concentration and quantity that I use, and I find it very effective, and not offensive. Fruthermore, I have known for years that I am far from olfatory impaired also. I have a more sensitive sense of smell than anyone I am aquainted with. I smell all kinds of things all day that nobody with me can smell at all. So, I don\'t mind the indole level even the way I am using it, so I don\'t see why it shoud be a problem at the higher dilution rates that many others seems to favor.
As a guess, I would say that \"yes\" effectiveness may be compromised by reducing or removing indole. One final thought, maybe whether people are overpowered by the indole or not is dependent on personal body factors; how things are reacting with their own sweat etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok, Bruce, I finally got a chance to test it out. Don\'t change it. It works great like it is, indole and all. I guess you just have to work with the dilution.An observation, if I may: the women don\'t have all the much to work with - you all have more \'mones already. EW is supposed to be for women to wear. Doesn\'t seem fair to tinker with it to suit the guys if it\'s a women\'s product.You could do a couple of versions. Replicate the original as a chem set version. Make a dilute version and call it EW#1. Cut the indole of that dilute version and make it EW#2. Spend the rest of your natural life answering questions from newbies about what\'s indole and what\'s the difference between the products.

[DrSmellThis]

I recently made my best woman\'s perfumes ever, a classic-type floral musk, with approx. 3 drops EW per oz (plus \"secret\" musk ingredients [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ). I\'m assuming this was like a female \"Rogue Male approach\", and might be a good dilution. I worked pretty hard on it. I\'ve tried it on four or five women, all of whom smelled yummy without much asss smell.

Incidentallly, the thing that makes EW smell like CHEEZE is definitely butyric acid, a substance that is found in the intestines of both men and women, and protects the gut lining from unfriendly microbes.

I therefore expect it to be a unisex pheromone.

I\'ve been taking the chemical internally as an experiment, in the form of its calcium/magnesium salts. In this form it still smells like cheeze, but \"good-smelling cheeze.\" The product is called Butyr-en, and is available from pure encapsulations only to health care professionals:

http://www.purecaps.com/

The product is also available from Health Naturals, and the Pearl Clinic Pharmacy in Portland, OR, to anyone.

I believe it might affect the sexiness of one\'s breath, based on my experience taking it. It may make my breath smell pleasantly musky. Sometimes I rub it on my arm, but have no stories to share yet.

Anyway, if Stone wants to minimize the cheeze, they just have to reduce the butyric acid content a bit.

Regarding indole, another unisex pheromone, this is a chemical found in high concentrations in jazmine, neroli, and other flowers. Indole is thought to be a strong aphrodisiac; but these flowers have other constituents that neutralize the indole poop smell. So if Stone wants to solve the indole problem, they just need to mix in essential oil of jasmine, or we can do it ourselves. Indole might be available in indolplex, a supplement that promotes estrogen metabolism for bodybuilders.

Scatole is the other \"ass smell\" used in perfumery. It\'s found in civet, which Parisian men used to scent their leather gloves with when trolling at sidewalk cafes. Stone could have added scatole EW as well, but didn\'t. They also might have added some fake ambergris perfume chemicals to achieve a more fishy smell. This is lacking in EW, but is important for pussiez! Another prominent smell on women is very chlorine-like -- almost identical, in fact. Chlorine is chemically similar to estrogen. I also detected none of this smell in EW.

Smelly bodily things are what turns people on in proper contexts, so I\'m not sure it makes sense to avoid them. In general, stanky thangs are always the most prized substances in perfumery.

[franki]

Welcome back, DoctorSmellThis! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Lucky]

Appreciate the indole information.

Have you noticed any results from ingesting the Butyr-en? I\'m curious about your expectations.

When I tried a very dilute mix for the EW, I felt like I was hallucinating. When I (finally) got some sleep, my dreams were bizarre, too. Should I have expected this?

[CptKipling]

Maybe the Butyric acid is present in vaginal secretions to protect against the microbes there. Still, I\'m not sure they got the conc. right.

[DrSmellThis]

Reasonable hypothesis, Kip.

I agree they could back off a bit. I wonder if balancing the pH as mentioned above would mellow it out. It smells more pleasantly sexy in salt form. Wouldn\'t some of it have to be on the skin as a salt anyway?

[Whitehall]

\"Chlorine is chemically similar to estrogen.\"

Actually, it is difficult to find two chemicals MORE dissimilar! Chlorine is a diatomic halogen gas, a strong oxidizer, and was used as the first poison gas in WWI. Estrogen is a multicyclic organic steroid.


Maybe you meant \"choline\" which has a slight fish smell, another organic.

[cuddlebear]

I think that\'s a safe assumption...

[DrSmellThis]

Oops...perhaps what I should have said is that many chlorinic compounds are chemically similar enough (at least somewhere on the molecule) to bind to estrogen receptors (-- hence the endocrine-related problems, such as estro-genic cancers, that result from such compounds, which are among the most common environmental pollutants) in the body, including receptors in the neuro-olfactory system...

Thanks. Does this pass muster, Whitehall? I flunked chemistry in Kindergarten. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Whitehall]

Much better!

Estrogens produce those lovely pouty lips, electric velvet skin, and moist \"internal tissues\" we all love so much about women.

I was once gassed with chlorine in an industrial incident and think it deserves mucho respect.

You\'re right about chloro-substituted cyclics often showing affinity for estrogen receptors - like DDT.

[sophie]

This is very interesting....the whiff I sometimes get in PCC and PI/w usage is a chlorine type smell that I have smelled at times in the stalls of well-used ladies\' restrooms. It is not offensive but very distinctive and to me it is reminiscent of chlorine. Just thought I\'d throw that in since men and women seem to smell things differently. Hope that helps.

[DrSmellThis]

Are you trying to say I smell like a woman, sophie?

[franki]

</font><blockquote><font class=\"small\">Quote:</font><hr />
I recently made my best woman\'s perfumes ever, a classic-type floral musk, with approx. 3 drops EW per oz (plus \"secret\" musk ingredients &lt;img src=\"/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif\"&gt; ). I\'m assuming this was like a female \"Rogue Male approach\", and might be a good dilution. I worked pretty hard on it. I\'ve tried it on four or five women, all of whom smelled yummy without much asss smell.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;Incidentallly, the thing that makes EW smell like CHEEZE is definitely butyric acid, a substance that is found in the intestines of both men and women, and protects the gut lining from unfriendly microbes.
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;br&gt;I therefore expect it to be a unisex pheromone.

<hr /></blockquote><font class=\"post\">

FTR, you can read this thread. In another thread there was a discussion about the ingredients of EW, and butyric acid was one of those. Butyric Acid is produced by men and women in anal/genital scent glands (maybe also other scent glands, I don\'t know). This is one of the reasons we smell like we smell down there. Apparently this is a unisex-pheromone and therefore interesting for men too.



Franki [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Butyric Acid is produced by men and women in anal/genital scent glands (maybe also other scent glands, I don\'t know).

Ok, but what you\'re putting on is not just Butyric Acid. You\'re putting on a compound that contains butyric acid.

If it works for you, good. Franki, I recall your saying it didn\'t help you. It didn\'t help Irish; in fact, it went against him. Upsidedown had an incident that could or could not be attributable to copulins in his mix. DrST wears it but I don\'t recall hit stories.
The rest of the men wearing it are not sexually active.

So ... I guess there\'s no way to know yet.

But the only thing I\'ve ever read regarding theory that felt completely right to me was what Upsidedown wrote, about women wanting men who did NOT stray, better for her precious eggs to have someone who\'ll stick around ...

and of course there are theories that females cuckhold, get impregnated by the Wild Man, and then marry the other guy for stability.

So maybe it depends to some extent on whether you want the Wild Man or the marriage material.

Elana and I want the Wild Man. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Does it not make sense that copulins would detract from the maleness of your pheromone signature?

You\'re saying that\'s too simplistic a view because some elements in copulins are not gender specific.

Ok, but in the combinations we have available, they are -- correct? PCC and EW are gender specific as they presently exist, although some of their components are not.

Unless you\'re able to isolate those non-gender specific elements and wear only them, it would seem to me you are giving yourself an \"I have a pussy\" pheromone signature.

I don\'t buy the social validation theory at all. Is that forum myth, by the way, or where did that come from?

[Irish]

The social proof idea gets lots of play on seduction websites in general, apart from the idea of pheros. That\'s no recommendation, of course, but there is a little serious writing about the idea that we want what others want, and in social contexts the popular center of attention draws even more attention, while the loner never gets a chance, this apart from inherent value and simply based on apparent desirability in the eyes of others. Herd mentality. Fashions. If he\'s with an attractive woman or women, he\'s probably not a serial killer.

The social proof idea has been extended on this forum to include phero signals. If she senses desirability in me because I signal evidence of sexual activity, then she\'ll join the herd, or at least be a little more intrigued. Not a preposterous theory on the face of it…just no evidence to back it up from what I\'ve been hearing. My own field work with cops was a bust.

About a year ago I came at it from a different angle. My theory then was I wanted a phero signature as close as possible to a dominant young attractive primitive man living in primitive conditions, unencumbered by culture. Of course modifications would have to be made for modern hygiene and the like, but Tarzan was my phero model. And since Tarzan would be sexually active (symmetric alpha-males get more sex and more partners - that HAS been researched) it seemed logical that Tarzan would be carrying the scent/pheros of recent sex partners. He\'s a harem-master, he couldn\'t help smelling like one. I know, it may sound ridiculous, but it\'s at least as good as some of the other theories you hear around here. The main problem with this theory is that it doesn\'t work - not for me applying cops to myself anyway. It seems to run off the girls, at least on me.

I think pheros are just one part of unconscious signals we send, and some applied signals may clash with an individual\'s body language, looks, personality, etc.

I was intrigued though when I heard ladies on the forum saying cops turned them on. From what I\'m hearing now though that effect is context-dependent. Using them on yourself and falling into fantasy, not reading cops as part of a man\'s signal.

So what do I do now with my lifetime supply of 1ml EW??

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s easy - send it to me!

One of the most brilliant things I think John Gray ever said was that men need to be admired, and women need to feel special.

How special would a woman feel if you come around to her signaling in some way that you\'ve been with another woman?

The social validation theory does not feel right at all and I wonder how much it\'s become accepted as truth just because people bandy it about so.

It flies in the face of everything we know about women.

It would be nice to be able to get some real evidence one way or another, but in the meantime, I wonder how many lost chances there have been because of bad information?

It\'s like the idea that because women get turned on by the women\'s products, the men should wear them. It completely misunderstands what the woman is reacting to.

I hope more guys will try, but I hope they don\'t make their minds up that the social acceptance theory is 100% and structure their moves to fit that, because I have my serious doubts about it and as far as I know, it\'s something y\'all have heretofore kept among yourselves, so you didn\'t have a chance for a woman to think about it with you.

(don\'t you long for those good old days?)

My motives are good if I\'m a pain in the ass, anyway - I want to hear hit stories and for everybody to have good hunting.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]