What do Women Want?

[Elana]

Thank you BNQ [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It sounds great coming from a guy\'s mouth. It will make women on this forum see that some of you guys actually get it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Whitehall]

\"They must think women are complete idiots.\"

What I do find is that reason does not get you laid with a woman. Spock was not a sexy character. It\'s called \"cold reason\" for a reason.

Women have their particular buttons that can be learned and pushed if a guy wants. Some guys develop a proficiency through conditioning and make their sex appeal intuitive - others apply their problem-solving skills to learning them.

Men have their own set of buttons and women are quite proficient at pushing them when they want (think push-up bras.)



As Nietzsche complained, \"Human, all too human.\"

But then, he died a virgin.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What I don\'t understand and probably never will is why some men put \"reason\" above every other thing. \"Reason\" is slow and tedious and depends on the limitations of the reasoner. Women are more intuitive. Because intuition is fuzzy and intuitive leaps cannot be explained, men who are extremeley dependent on deductive reasoning and put logic as the be all and end all tend to think women are stupid. It can be very frustrating to have to break every last thing down to its smallest components and then build it back up again for a man who can\'t accept that you can be right even if you can\'t explain yourself on a blackboard.

I tend to think it\'s sour grapes. Guys who can\'t understand anything but linear thought processes call women stupid because they are themselves unable to do anything but think in a straight line.

[CJ01]

BNQ, I have repeatedly criticized those websites in the past because they are made by people full of [censored] and therefore are a load of bollocks too. I have read some of the comments and `advice´ on those sites and frankly a lot of what the guys there have written is so negative and aggressive that it´s no wonder they can´t find a woman and serves them right too. Those men actually believe that women owe them their bodies and are on this planet to be grateful for the mere existance of assholes. Yeah right.
The best way to find out what someone likes and wants is to ask the person concerned. Some men just don´t get it. Sadly. CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

And do you notice that the men who make the most frequent blanket negative generalizations about women are often the ones who think most highly of those sites? It\'s bad reinforcing bad.

[CJ01]

Yep, and it´s not like all men are logical either right, or `reasonable´.

BTW the only buttons women have are maybe on their clothes.

[Mtnjim]

\"What I don\'t understand and probably never will is why some men put \"reason\" above every other thing.\"

It\'s the difference between gathering berrys and chasing Mastodons, functunal, but, neither is \"better\" than the other.
Also, it may have to do with the difference in the way the two halves of the brain connected. Women have a greater connection between left and right then men.

IMVHO

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s actually true. Women use more of their brains at the same time than men do.

http://medicine.indiana.edu/news_releases/archive_00/men_hearing00.html

http://www.enteract.com/~whit/difminds.htm

http://www.sfu.ca/~dkimura/articles/britan.htm

[**DONOTDELETE**]

men want to fix and make better. women want to talk about it. what women want is someone to just listen, and sympathize. this is all in general of course. If the car breaks the woman wants it fixed, not someone to sympathize about it. but if she gets in an argument with her sister she wants you to just listen to her, be on her side. not to try to fix it or patch things up.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Going one further than that we \"want to talk about it\" -- we want to share our experiences with you -- it\'s very important to us to share our experiences with you. Kind of fruitless, but we keep trying, because for some reason we need to -- as much or more than men need sex, women need to share experience. So when she\'s talking about a problem, it\'s not about getting to a solution -- that\'s typical left-brain linear male thinking, that doesn\'t associate emotion with information -- she\'s just wanting to let you into her inner world. And all you have to do is maintain eye contact and say \"oh\" in varying tones. (Oh?(really?) Oh! (no kidding!) OOOH! (wow, i bet you were mad) oh (right, go on) etc) It\'s true, the worst and most frustrating thing you can do to a woman who wants to talk is to keep trying to give her the solution. What that sounds like to a woman is \"Shut up.\" Which hurts her feelings. Because the purpose of her talking to you is not to get the solution to a problem. It is to share her experience and bring you into her world. She already knows her own answer, most of the time -- if you listen until the end of the story, you\'ll find she ended up working it all out by herself. So you\'re saying, why did she bring the whole thing up in the first place? To share her experience with you.

If, on the other hand, she really doesn\'t know the solution, she\'ll ask you directly, what do you think I should do? Bear in mind this will not be the end of the discussion, though - she\'ll want to work through all the possible outcomes aloud and say what feelings are aroused by those possibilities. Again -- \"Oh\" in varying tones works really well. If it\'s possible for the guy to actually project himself into her place and feel those things with her, then that\'s great, too, because unless he does, he\'s going to forget every last word she said, assuming he was listening in the first place ...

Men hurt women\'s feelings in conversation constantly because they don\'t understand that she\'s talking to bring you closer to her by sharing her world. The men are just focused on the facts of the story, which are largely beside the point.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Now that I have gotten all of you ladies fired up a little. Here\'s my 2 cents..
We all generalize about the opposite sex. Ladies, admit it, you do it too.
If you don\'t think that you do, go back and read your previous posts on this thread about us guys.
I don\'t like it when a woman puts me in some kind of category, anymore than a women would want
me to put them there. These so called informational websites, are completely useless. They don\'t only think
women are idiots, they have to think men are as well to follow these so called techniques. Do they think
men are so stupid that they don\'t know what places to go to, to find a woman. Come On! Give me a break.
You can read all the how to books in the world, but you won\'t learn a thing unless you actually do it.
Experience is the greatest teacher. We are human beings not machines. We are all individuals and all of us
work differently. How the heck can a website tell you how to seduce a woman, without actually knowing her.
We\'re all different, what works with one woman, probably won\'t with another. All I am trying to say here is,
guys, stop reading about it, and do it. To everyone here, let\'s respect one an other, and see each other as
individuals and not generalize the opposite sex..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Of course we generalize about men and y\'all generalize about us. There are some valid generalizations to be made.

Generally, tho, the women aren\'t saying the men are stupid, can\'t think logically, are incapable of original thought ... which are things some of the men on the forum say constantly.

[belgareth]

FTR:

Many men (myself included) prefer a woman who does think. I imagine you would not waste your time dealing with a stupid male, would you? Could be he\'s good in bed but how much time can you really spend at sex? It\'s nice to be able to talk about something interesting between rounds. My younger brother married the epitome of the dumb blond. She looks great and is a very sweet person but has nothing between her ears besides fluff. He confided in me years ago that it was a mistake and wishes he had met somebody who could hold an intellegent conversation.

Your comment about intuitive verses logical is to the point. My wife and I have seen it many times. She and I frequently come to the same conclusion following different paths. It isn\'t unusual for me to be unable to follow her thought process where I can explain mine in a step by step manner. Does that mean one process is better or worse? Not really. It\'s simply different ways of dealing with the same question. If the solution works, who cares how you got there?

I think it has to do with the way our brains are wired and the pressures applied by society. Evolution over the last few million years has required males perform one function while females performed another. (Sound a little like another thread? They are related) Present day society\'s pressures are different and force both genders to take on other roles. More women work outside the home and more men can cook, care for the kids and do laundry. The changes create greater interaction between diverse people and highlight differences that have always been there. It\'s up to us to adapt to one another\'s differences. To my mind, it\'s a much more interesting world that way.

About using more of their brains, is that correct? I hadn\'t heard that before.

Belgareth

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, it\'s correct -- I posted links above. The thing about how and why women talk, and how frustrating it is for a woman to try to talk to a man when he keeps butting in and saying \"Do this! Well, then, do that!\" is well documented; many counselors have written advice about this phenomenon. I think it has to do with the fact that women connect everything both factually and emotionally at the same time. So while a woman is trying to convey an emotional experience, the man is just processing the facts she\'s reciting, and expecting them to lead to some conclusion. When they don\'t, and if she doesn\'t tell the story in a linear fashion, he just can\'t process and stops listening/shuts down. I\'ve seen more fights betwen men and women because of this, where she says \"You talk to me like you think I\'m stupid\" (because he keeps telling her what to do) and he is completely bewildered because how could his reaction be wrong? It\'s LOGICAL. arggg

[belgareth]

Yes, saw that after sending my post. Will check it out this evening. Thanks

Belgareth

[CJ01]

Excuse me but I never generalize neither men nor women! The only general differences there are as far as the genders go are anatomical and to an extend physiological of course. As for the other things there are so many to the `rules´ that there are no general rules left really.

Some women make those mistakes but men make the general stupid assumptions about themselves. How many men reckon that if a guy does or does not do certain things or behave in a certain way that it ain´t `manly´ or ´masculine´?

I think all those things `the difference between the sexes´, including the stuff written in magazines is just utter bollcks. It´s like reading the tabloids: You can read it if you must- but for f***s sake don´t believe it! CJ

[Whitehall]

As to feelings vs reason, in my business, except to a very limited degree in human relations and leadership, there is not a single decision I can make or action that I take where \"I feel like it\" is an acceptable justification. I\'d be laughed at for offering such an \"excuse.\"

I can hear it now, \"Why did you specify the single stage canned rotor pump with the 0.8 power factor in type H insulation with the Section III Class 2, type 316L stainless steel casing?\"

\"I felt like it.\"


But then, I am not an interior decorator.

In living the ideal life, one combines reason, feeling, intuition, emotion into an integrated, fully connected whole. One could then apply the most effective mental tool for the situation.

I will say that one thing I love about women is when they open their emotional self to me - I\'ll be glad to change the tire, fight off the bad dogs, fix the plumbing, and bring home the bacon for us - what I ask in return is that you make an emotionally warm home for us.

Ying and yang.

[CJ01]

BNQ, you mentioned what I was trying to get at but didn´t really say. A big problem is that people don´t respect one another, in general ( ). Too many people think so highly of themselves they can´t admit that they´re nothing special at all and are mega ego-hurt when someone tells them they´re just little jerks and bitches. People have become so bloody selfish and inconsiderate and pretty sickening. CJ

[CJ01]

All this man-woman talk ... where´s frenchie and the other (few) gay members of this board. They must be very amused indded and somewhat maybe relieved right?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Nobody\'s suggesting you get all touchy feely at your job - I can\'t do it at mine, either. That\'s a whole different matter.

But speaking of whole different matters -- I swear to GOD, you pay all the bills and support me and I\'d suck your dick and make you dinner and iron your shirts and be glad about it.

I don\'t get this, maybe some of the other women on the forum could enlighten me. I\'ve been pulling a paycheck steady since I was 17, never had the chance not to have to work outside the home, and to me it looks like heaven -- but I really enjoy the domestic arts -- but then again, why would a woman who didn\'t put herself in the position of being a stay at home wife/mother?

Is it a matter of the grass is always greener? I wish I could see what it was like just one time because I really do not get why that would not be wonderful.

[Mtnjim]

Refering to the suduction sites mentioned back up the thread.
I just went and checked one of them out and here is what I noticed.
These are 16-22 year olds who are afraid to even speak to a female. There also seems to be a lot of over-analysis on these sites. They are attempting to build up their egos and seem brave. Sort of like the war dance was used to hype up the troops before battle. Perhaps if they spend a little time following the threads on those sites, they will be able to build up enough confidence to begin meeting women. And with a little luck, they will have just enough courage to act in a civilized manner, not to the extent they brag about on line.
On the other hand I may just be getting old, and that is the state of relations today. ;>0

Just an observation.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Of course we generalize about men and y\'all generalize about us. There are some valid generalizations to be made.

Generally, tho, the women aren\'t saying the men are stupid, can\'t think logically, are incapable of original thought ... which are things some of the men on the forum say constantly.


I agree with you about the men who call woman stupid. These men have serious issues. I\'d put ignorance, and low self esteem, at the top of the list. I don\'t think the majority of the men on this forum think the way that these few do, myself included.. I\'ve read a lot of those posts. I ignored them because they don\'t merit a return post. Men like that fear that they will be outwitted by a woman.

Let me tell you a little something about my wife and myself. Bare with me, there is a point here.. My wife is a polish imagrant, who came to this country 15 years ago. I met her 2 weeks after she came into the country. I spoke a few words of polish, she spoke zero english. The first time we went out on a date, she told me that it would never work between us because of the language barrier. What I said to her was, if you don\'t want to see me again I\'ll respect your wishes. I told her, if it\'s the language problem that is bothering her and nothing else, then there really isn\'t a problem here. As long as we respect, and trust one another, english can be learned. If you don\'t think you can respect and trust me, then we should part ways and not pursue it any further. You know what, she was so impressed with what I said, that she wanted to continue seeing me. Here we are, 15 years later, married, with an 11 year old child.

Here\'s my point. Here we were, 2 people with a huge challenge, both willing to take on that challenge. We still have a few problems. Who doesn\'t. But, the trust, and respect, still exists, and the challenges still exist as well. The operative word here is \"challenge\". I will bet, that at least 98% of the forum members, want and need a challenge in a relationship. We all need a challenge, otherwise the relationship would get boring, and old, very quickly. I\'ve read the posts on this thread and others as well. Although, the ladies are more tactful than the men, when talking about men, the insinuation of calling us stupid is there. Saying things like, \"I sometimes think men think we are as visually oriented as they are, and I have never felt this to be true.\" Maybe I\'m reading into this too much, a statement like this, says to me that men are shallow and too stupid to want anything more than a pretty face. I don\'t know about the rest of the guys here, I want and demand more than that. While some of the guys remarks are much more blatant about how woman are stupid and only good for one thing, to me, the same remarks are coming from some of the women as well, just in a different way. The only thing I was trying to covey in my last post is that we should respect one another for who we are, and stop all the other bullshit..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Some women make those mistakes but men make the general stupid assumptions about themselves. How many men reckon that if a guy does or does not do certain things or behave in a certain way that it ain´t `manly´ or ´masculine´?

Sounds like a generalization to me..


It´s like reading the tabloids: You can read it if you must- but for f***s sake don´t believe it! CJ

I don\'t. I\'m the one who said to stop reading the books and just do it..

BTW, my post was not aimed at you CJ. I replied to you because your post was the last post that was pertinent to my post.. The last thing I want to do is signal anyone out...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

BNQ, you mentioned what I was trying to get at but didn´t really say. A big problem is that people don´t respect one another, in general ( ). Too many people think so highly of themselves they can´t admit that they´re nothing special at all and are mega ego-hurt when someone tells them they´re just little jerks and bitches. People have become so bloody selfish and inconsiderate and pretty sickening. CJ

Sad, but so true...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree.

Honestly, I don\'t think -- at least, I don\'t recall, since I\'ve been here, anyway -- a woman saying, or meaning to imply, that men are shallow and all they want is a pretty face. Sophie seems to genuinely like men, as do I. But men DO seem extremely visually oriented, to a point that\'s incomprehensible to many women, which I think was Sophie\'s point in opening the thread --that women are not as visually oriented as some of the guys here seem to believe - because it\'s easy to think that what you value, others value as well. Do you think it\'s fair to say that most women are not as concerned about what a guy looks like as a guy is concerned about what a woman looks like? I don\'t say it\'s every guy, but would you agree that many men are overwhelmed by a good looking woman to the point that they don\'t investigate further, they want her just because she\'s beautiful, never mind what she\'s like in daily interaction, and end up with disastrous relationships. Women can make similar mistakes with macho men who appeal because of their extreme masculinity, but who find it doesn\'t sit well, and god herself couldn\'t get along with them (jokey joke).


One thing that I hope for in these discussions is that we\'ll reveal ourselves to each other as men and women and be able to learn something. It seems to me that presenting information, for example, about the differences between how men and women process information could be helpful. There has been so much emphasis on our being alike that the very real differences between men and women are often ignored. I like to understand the differences -- it helps me appreciate the man\'s point of view better.

Glad to hear from a man who appreciates women who think. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I agree with everything you have to say. Believe me, I\'m really taken by a beautiful woman. My point is that looks really don\'t go very far... If that\'s all a man/woman has to offer, that is.. Great to take to bed, but not much more. As I said before, I think that the majority of all people need more than great looks in the opposite sex. If a woman/man is both beautiful/handsome and intelligent and a challenge, then your lucky.. I happen to be one of the lucky ones..

[sophie]

My original quote: \"...because from reading these boards, I sometimes think men think we are as visually oriented as they are, and I have never felt this to be true. No offense, guys,...\" I really meant no offense and do not wish to convey anyone is shallow and/or stupid. I think it is a neurological (?) fact that men are hardwired to be more visually oriented than women, but I don\'t have a link to back that up.

Just to clear up my original quote; otherwise FTR says things much better than I do.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

As I said, maybe I\'m reading too much into it. I\'m sure that I am. I wasn\'t trying to signal you out sophie, just trying to make a point. Be honest though, don\'t you think everyone is taken by good looks at the onset, and may, or may not, pursue it because the person turns out to be a jerk. I think both men and women think the same in this respect.[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[sophie]

I\'ll try to be honest, but for the most part I am not really swayed that much by a man\'s looks. I might look twice at someone who is considered attractive, whatever that means, but I am not impressed AT ALL unless his behavior is up to par (many sides of that issue, you can be sure, and everyone\'s criteria is different). And so called unattractive (physically) men can be really attractive if ...well, that\'s a big if, it depends on so many things besides looks. That was the point of my original post.

And I\'m really glad this discussion has gone so many directions. I think we can allow that just about everyone who has replied here is not shallow, I like that thought . That was what I was wondering when I posted originally, is it just me or is the whole world based on people\'s looks? I guess I let the media and the jerks in the world make me think too much on the negative.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Really, honestly, women and men don\'t think the same on this subject. We just don\'t. It\'s seriously a case of \"pretty is as pretty does.\" A guy might be nice to look at but if that\'s all he is, that\'s about all that will happen -- we\'ll look at him. I\'ve said this before and it\'s the truth - the guy I see right now is stunning -- the guy I saw before him was short, fat, and bald. He was also a Ph.D., an attorney, brilliant, witty, imaginative, intuitive, and an incredibly skilled and passionate lover. I mentioned the guy at work who\'s ... ok, he\'s ugly. But I would go out with him and probably more if we didn\'t work together.

This is what Sophie was trying to get across -- for most of us, it\'s really not about looks. The degree to which you may not be able to believe that is just an indicator, to me, of how different men and women are when it comes to visuals. You can\'t quite grasp it because it\'s so unlike you.