Need the Women's Help

[MadMaxx]

Okay, I need some advice from the ladies(I\'ll be disappointed if I don\'t hear from FTR). Some times I have trouble sorting out whether something is a hit or not. Actually, my question would be the same whether it were phero-related or not. FTR, you may recall I mentioned a lady in a cafe at the next table who looked my right in the eye for a second or two, and you mentioned that maybe that is her giving the message to talk to her. The problem I have in these situations is that I always think, yeah, maybe she is trying to tell me something here, but then again, people can just \"accidently\" make eye contact for a second can\'t they. If she did other things too, that would help a guy be more certain. For example, Hunny Bunny mentioned on another thread that if the women keeps looking and smiling repeatedly, you can talk to her. Duh, I think I can read that one all right. I like something else HB said though, and I\'ve always thought it myself. She said even if the women is just looking content and comfortable, you can talk to her. I\'ve always thought that this makes the woman look more inviting, and I\'ve taken it as an invitation.
Now, here\'s the problem; many times I think I may have a hit, because of one indicator, such as 1 second of eye contact, but that is about all I get. No smile, no repeated glance at me, and no calm, contented expression on the woman\'s face. So, how the hell is a guy supposed to read this? Would it be reasonable to say that a woman will avoid even 1 second of eye contact if she is not interested and does not want to invite the guy in any way?
Here is something that happened tonight. I walked onto the train platform with my friend and I saw this total babe, so I intentionally walked right in front of her so she could get a good whiff of the good old EW etc. Then my friend and I are standing several meters away. Nothing so much as a glance from her, as far as I could tell anyway, unless I missed it. She was reading a magazine. Anyway, the train comes and I decided to move back in her direction and get in at the same door. As we both approach the door she turns to look at me and makes eye contact for maybe a second. However, no smile, nothing else. I sit beside her on the train but I really can\'t read the vibe I am getting from her. If she looked pleasant, or friendly, or even content, I would take it as a sign. However, I couldn\'t read much more than a neutral. There was one more interesting thing though. I live in Japan by the way. This chick was reading a weekly English magazine, and I think she might have been reading the personal section, but I am not sure. She continued to read it as she sat beside me. I was thinking this could have been a sign of some sort. Personally, I would have thought that someone would be embarrassed to be reading the personals in such a situation. I mean, she would know that I can read English, so I would know what she was reading.
Anyway, one more thing. In this case, but also in many cases in the past, I have had a situation on a train where I feel like there is something going on between me and a woman, either because of a brief eye contact or something else. So then I think maybe I\'ll talk to her when we get off the train; however, in almost every case the woman practically dashes away when the doors open and we get off. I don\'t know how to read this. My male friends tell me that they are proably running away from me! However, I am not entirely sure. Others may suggest that I didn\'t take any action on the train, so why the hell should she wait around after we get off. Now, I don\'t think like a woman, but I figure if the women has some interest she should maybe take her time a little more when we get off the train so that maybe a guy could catch up to her on the platform or stairs or whatever. Also, sometimes in these situations the girl does really take her time after she gets off, and I take it as a sign that she is hoping I will catch up to her and talk to her. Tonight, the woman made off ahead of me quite quickly, and she know for sure that I was getting off at the same stop.
So, I know this has been long, but I hope you can address these scenarios and tell me what you think is going on in the woman\'s head, and how I should read her behavior.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

MM, you sit down next to a woman who can see that you would likely speak English and she lets you see that she is reading the personals, and you can\'t think of anything to say to her? Good lord, son! I\'m gonna talk to you like a dutch uncle, now, so don\'t be offended, ok? You\'ve got to get some balls up under you. It is your job to initiate. You have to understand this and I don\'t think you\'re getting it. It\'s your job, that\'s your role. So. If you see a woman you want to talk to, TALK TO HER. Whether she\'s paying you any attention or not. Whether you think she looks happy, friendly, content, jesus - you know, chances are, she\'s not thinking about you or men at all. She could be tired and have concerns of her own. She could be shy, or she could be a contemplative sort by nature. We have to walk around with a big loopy grin all the time for y\'all to understand we want you to talk to us, we like to be admired? Maybe she\'s not a bit content and maybe she doesn\'t even know you\'re alive -- so why don\'t you make it your business to get her attention and cheer her up? It\'s your job to make her think about you. Speak up! Whatcha reading? Hi, how are you? Man, this train\'s crowded, is it always like this? What\'s that you\'re eating, it looks really good --what do you recommend on the menu? Wow, long day, huh? Where\'s a good place to go for happy hour? Why don\'t you come with me, can I buy you a drink? I\'m testing a new cologne for a small company - would you give me your opinion? how do you like it? Wanna mess around? (Ok, maybe that last one\'s a little forward, but honey, you could do with a little more forward. A lot more forward.)If you sit around waiting for a woman to give some mysterious high sign that she\'s attracted to you, you\'re gonna be sitting around a very long time. You\'re the man. It\'s YOUR GAME, so play it. Don\'t wait for permission. Own your status.Ok, a woman you\'re admiring looks you dead in the eye for 1 second. SAY SOMETHING. Smile, nod, say \"how are you?\" It really doesn\'t matter what, honest to god, it doesn\'t have to be clever, it can even be stupid. If she\'s interested, she\'ll help you move the conversation along. Now. A woman you\'re admiring looks you dead in the eye for one second and you just sit there with your teeth in your mouth. I\'ll tell you what she\'s thinking. She\'s thinking, dammit, what do I have to do? if he\'s going to keep looking at me, I wish he\'d say something... You think something\'s going on between you and some woman on a train, but she doesn\'t give any sign and you sit there giving off vibes but all anxiety and saying nothing. Why does she run off like the devil\'s after her without a backward glance? Because she\'s embarassed to tears that she had to ride all that way with you and you never said a word to her, and she thinks she must be crazy because she could have sworn there was something going on between you.Why should she stick around and wait for you when you\'re showing you can\'t do your job to begin with? I don\'t mean to be nasty, but if you\'re gonna show wuss from the git-go, why would she want anything to do with you? There are various ways you can interpret glances, seeming indifference, body language, etc., and if you are accurate at your interpretations, they might give you some indication of whether or not a woman might be interested in chatting with you. HOWEVER. You will never really know until you take the initiative and open your mouth. You\'re putting way to big a burden on the women. We\'re not trained to act encouraging to strange men, do you see what I\'m saying? You\'re like a door-to-door salesman who stands on the sidewalk, looking wistfully at the house, waiting for the housewife to notice him, and feeling rejected because she doesn\'t fling the door wide open and invite him right on in for coffee. That sh*t ain\'t happenin\', do you see what I mean? March up to the door, knock, get her attention, and show what you have to offer.

[Naughtymonkey]

Well said FTR. I have come to the conclusion (32 years too late mind) that the best chat-up line is to just say Hi.

[Bruce]

Dude,
I spent 13 years in Japan, most of it married, but lots of it single, and there are a couple of rules of the road that I can give you that you should write down on a frickin\' 3x5 card and carry with you everywhere. You should memorize these rules immediately, but continue to carry the card around with you anyway, pulling it out whenever you feel these truths to be slipping from your consciousness.

#1. There are two types of women in Japan: those who are dying to date a foreigner and those who would rather die than date a foreigner. Sure there are some in the middle who could be nudged over by Leo Sama (how young Japanese girls refer to the actor DeCaprio), but don\'t trouble yourself about them. Just memorize the rule. It will server you very well.
Next:
#2. If you are in a public place and see a Japanese woman alone reading an English language magazine or textbook, immediately... (I\'m going to shout this now, so you know I mean it literally) IMMEDIATELY stand up and walk over to her and recite this line: \"Excuse me, do you speak English?\" She will say \"yes\", and then you can continue with any number of things:
May I sit here?
Are you studying English?
Where do you study?
Do you like English?
Have you every been to the US (or Canada or the UK..)?
etc etc
Notice I didn\'t say \"figure out if you would like to get to know her and THEN go talk to her\". You can figure that out while you are talking to her. If you try to work that out before you walk over, you will never do it and you are wasting precious moments on the subway anyway.

Make sure you have a pen and paper handy and when one of you has to get off the train say this: \"May I phone you? (at this point you will probably want to have decided if you want to date this woman) She will say \"yes\" and you will jot down her phone number.

Don\'t worry about anything else for a while. Just concentrate on internalizing this method. Ride around on the subway all day if you have to, but get this technique going for you. I have NEVER heard of this failing, and there are sorely few approaches in the dating world that are 100% sure things. If you do this and are not delighted with the results, send me an email. I will send you a free bottle of whatever you want.

Bruce

[jose]

Bruce is right, I don\'t know how it is in Japan but if you don\'t open your mouth (instead of waiting for facial expressions) you\'re going nowhere with women.

[oscar]

MadMaxx,

I\'ve come to realize over the years, that a man\'s PRIMARY sex organ is NOT his penis, but rather his larynx.
I have never, ever, not even ONCE, had sex with a woman without having SPOKEN to her first.

Whatever is to follow, your vocal chords MUST open the door.
If you say nothing, nothing is what you\'ll get. Even if you say something stupid and get shot down, you\'ll have less reason for kicking yourself than if you had said or done nothing.

Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

MM, somebody wrote and told me I was brutal. I hope you know it\'s advice well meant and if I was brutal I didn\'t mean to be - just unequivocal. I\'m letting it stand and hoping it will do you some good. It must be lonely there with no girlfriend.Much affection,FTR

[CptKipling]

The power of diverse communication is the greatest gift bestowed upon human kind. Use it.

[Funlover]

OK FTR... Maybe you were a little brutal. But it was very good advice, and needed said. Not just for MM\'s benefit, but for every other man on this forum. MM would naturally take it the hardest because it was directed at him, but many others will benefit, including myself. Thank you, FTR...

And my advice to MM... We all want you to be happy, and it is hard to be happy without a good woman. So maybe just start out by saying \"Hi\" to everyone you see, regardless of age or gender. This will help you to start being naturally & automatically \"friendly\" to every person you meet. This is what I had to do. And be friendly with everyone, not just what you feel is a \"potential new girlfriend\", because they may not be the \"one\" for you, but may have a friend, sister, etc. that is. Life is short and you want to spend as much of it as you can with someone special, so if you can get the courage to start making the first move on women now, you\'ll be miles ahead later. People will like you better, because they will see you as a friendly & happy person. I know, because I used to be in your situation, and now it is so much different. The world today is a pretty rough place, and you will be attractive if others see you are friendly and happy. Good Luck!!!

Funlover

[MadMaxx]

Wow, what an overwhelming response! I think I\'ll just write one reply here. First of all, FTR, I wasn\'t the least offended by your message. Believe it or not I was laughing when I read it, because I know that you are absolutely right, and the same goes with what the others said. I guess I am basically aware of what my shortcomings are with regards to initiating things with women. Unfortunately, knowing that something is true and actually bringing yourself to put it into practice are two different things.
Everyone\'s advice is well taken, except the stuff about the woman jumping out the window. That one I didn\'t get. Some of you talked a lot about the importance of looking like a happy, fun person etc. I\'m aware of the importance of that. Some times I spot an opportunity but because of my present mood, or due to the day that I have had I feel that I am not in the right emotional state to be approaching someone. That is actually what happened the other evening when I got on the train with this babe. I was in a good mood but then got into a bad mood because when I went to sit down, some rude bitch of a little girl actually started scrapping with me because she wanted to lie on the seat and save 4 or 5 seats for her friends who were coming, but who were way behind her. This kind of peeved me off.

Also, FTR, thanks for your thoughts regarding what is probably going through a woman\'s mind when she dashes off the train after nothing has happened.

[SwingerMD]

MaddMaxx,

Everyone here has vaild points, esp. Bruce. My suggestion would be to go out and start up conversations for just for the sake of having a conversation. If things start to mesh, then great let it grow. If not then no worries. If you go out thinking that your going to get a hit or relationship then you are thinking way too far ahead. You\'re just going to get yourself nervous and second guessing yourself.

As for starting up conversations start up a list of things that you can ask. Forget your watch at home (or just leave it in your pocket) and ask her, \"Aa simasen kedo, ima nanji desuka?\" Take the opportunity to pratice your Japanese. I am certain that there are a lot of Japanese girls out there that would love to pratice their English on you. Hell, since you are a \"gaijin\" I sure that they would love to take pictures with you. I hear that a lot from my caucasian friends that go there. As for me, they usually leave me alone since I look Japanese . . . until I open my mouth.

As for improving your mood I suggest that you at the very least dab a little SOE under your nose. Makes me more relaxed and comfortable to talk to people when I out and about.

[MadMaxx]

Thanks MD. You people are all full of advice aren\'t you. Hell, this forum is better than family! lol.

[SwingerMD]

Dooitashimashite. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[SwingerMD]

BTW pheros are you wearing when you are out and about commuting on the subway/trains?

[MadMaxx]

That has changed a lot over the months. I used to use a lot of -none. However, since EW came out, I have really changed my strategy. I think I am too intimidating to people. These days I use a lot of EW, feminine cover scents, and 2 or 3 drops of JB. Anymore -none than that and it makes me hostile and I also don\'t seem to get hits. Also, even 1 drop of PI or 1 spray of Andro 4.2 has the same dual negative effect. I also use Soe with the EW, and JB, but not everyday. I usually just use Soe when I know I will be around a lot of people/women such as at my dance classes. I figure the Soe is a waste in other cases, because we don\'t tend to talk to all sorts of people when we commute to work, and at work I already can\'t get away from everyone who wants to take up all my time.

[SwingerMD]

Hmm . . . got to thinking . . . I was reading your posts about EW and PCC and how it makes females wet. I was thinking that a possible reason why the woman bolted was a rxn to the EW that you had on because it made her . . . .

I typically use SOE at dance classes to improve everyone\'s mood. I have also found that about 8-12 drops of APC in the hair gel tend to give me an increasing amount of flirtatious behavior when I did this over an 6 week session.

[EXIT63]

domo arigato mr roboto

[MadMaxx]

MD, interesting theory, but I don\'t no if I like it. I know with -none for example I have had some very sexual hits on the train, and then the woman has bolted. That doesn\'t surprise me since it is -none and that is fairly anxiety inducing. However, I would think that if the woman is getting all wet over my EW, she should become very open to any advances and shouldn\'t feel like running. I know that at my dance lessons there are usually 2 or 3 out of the group that almost can\'t keep themselves away from me.

[SwingerMD]

Maxx,

One of the theories that I have on why I get so many more hits at dances and dance classes is that people usually go to them to be social. The ladies are a lot more comfortable in situations likes these. I was also thinking that like -none, the rxn to couplins when women are on their period would be very negative.

[MadMaxx]

MD, your theory may be half valid, if that makes any sense. Meaning, sure the women should in general be more sociable than if they are strangers to you in a cafe or bar or whatever. However, I have to point out that there are a lot of really grim, pathetic, unsociable females that show up to some of my classes. I don\'t how well you know Japanese females, but I\'m telling you, about one third of the ones that show up for my dance lessons, you wonder what ever possessed them to be interested in Latin dance. They look at the floor with long faces, and their body and arm movements are like wet spagetti at best. It\'s almost scary. There is usually 2-3 out of 8 or 10 that I absolutely dread having to attempt to dance with. Lack of oomph and passion would be the understatement of the year, and to top it off, they are not friendly or personable at all. I don\'t think it is merely a distaste for my -none or something either,because I observe their interactions with the other guys, and they basically seem consistent across the board. Anyway, having said that, yeah, a good number of them are probably open to a social experience.

[proteus]

every guy should read this IMO - brilliant post and wisdom!!