Share your knowledge.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

All forum members welcome, men and women.

1) What kind of signals does everyone use to attract the opposite sex? (Every person must have a different tactic)

2) Besides the usual eye contact, and types of body language that everyone knows, what are some others we use?

3) What are some of the subliminal messages that men and women use to attract the opposite sex?

4) Women: What are the do\'s and don\'ts for guys while talking to you in person?

5) Men: Same as above but with females.

6) All other info about picking up the opposite sex can be posted as well. We all found this site and buy the products for basically the same reason, but like Bruce and the majority of people said, pheros are only there to help out, and the real work is up to us.

Everyone can benefit from information like this, instead of going to the \"pickupguide\" or whatever, you can get it right here in the forum. Like I said, everyone has their own tactics and opinions. You can learn something new, and teach something new. Post your thoughts, skills, ideas, opinions if you want. If people choose to post, we all can benefit from it.

[proteus]

This is an interesting topic but as far as approach/signals etc. I won\'t discuss that as I feel it\'s better explained by the layguides/faqs etc at fastseduction. But I did want to mention one thing that I think is vital to understand - when I look at all I\'ve learnt as far as seduction goes, the most valuable lesson I\'ve learnt is that if a lady puts a guy into LJBF\'s land it\'s as a result of his failure to take the initiative. To be more clear and direct, she only wants him as a friend NOW, because He left her with No choice but to put him in the \"friend\" category. See, if a lady gives you enough time to get to know her and you\'ve hung out a couple of times but you are not assertive, are asexual/androgynous in her presence (that is,
you are always the perfect gentleman/nice/non-sexual with her) and won\'t make the moves by expressing your interest in her sexually you will become a \"friend\" fast. You have to let her know you are interested in her physically, not by talking about it (e.g. you are so beautiful, you are gorgeous she\'s thinking blahblahblahborrrrring ---> he\'s too wimpy to touch) but actually make the moves, that is touching her hair/skin, kissing her, etcetc.If she\'s hanging out with you she already likes you but the fastest way to LJBF is to remain the gentleman and if you don\'t make the move your forcing her to either
a)make the first moves sexually (which most times she won\'t coz she feels the guy must for reasons to many to list here
b)put you in LJBF land because she knows you don\'t have the guts to do what needs to be done to get the ball rolling so to speak
and most time b) wins out over a) and you wonder why this LJBF stuff keeps happening to you when you are such a nice guy/have a good job/look decent etcetc . Now this is not to say you go about groping/pawing away at women as that\'s a quick way to end up in jail - rather it means quietly asserting your physical interest in a lady that already likes and feels comfortable with you.

So whenever I\'m with a lady and I see she\'s starting to get that bored/glazed look I remember this and with the stuff I\'ve learnt from the layguides etc. it\'s easy enough to snap her out of that state and get her attention again. You would not believe the amount of women I coulda been with if I only knew then what I know now as I had \"friends\" in college (9\'s and 10\'s) who I spent countless times alone with at clubs/bars, restaurants being the perfect gentlemen but never slept with any of them and I could never figure out what I was doing wrong - absolutely clueless was I :-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Words of love, so soft and tender
Won\'t win a girl\'s heart anymore
If you love her then you must send her
somewhere where she\'s never been before
Worn out phrases and longing gazes
won\'t get you where you want to go
No, words of love, soft and tender won\'t win her
anymore

A good way to initiate a kiss is to reach out and put your hand lightly around the back of her neck and pull her to you. Lead her to you. If she really really doesn\'t want you, that gives her a second to pull back and say no. And if she does, it\'s sexy and she\'ll respond to it.

[EXIT63]

You\'ve been listening to the oldies station again, haven\'t you.

[Watcher]

We have a poet great he he. Lol good advice that works always thanks again fulltiltredhead.

[proteus]

Great tip Red. But it\'s important not to give up if she resists first attempt at kiss - adjust/reframe/pattern some more and if she still resists cut your losses and next. This also raises the question when to know that you\'re wasting your time - that is when is a no a NO and to accept that and move on. I measure it by the degree to which I\'m supplicating to her - if I\'m having to \"work\" too much that\'s it - a chase is fun, but I\'ve never liked a chase in a maze.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What\'s up everyone? Thanks for posting some ideas. A couple of my friend\'s are always meeting these beautiful girls, going out to dinner, etc....And they always say to me \"John, I\'ve been dating this girl for so long, she was flirting a lot with me, so I asked her out and she said she would rather be friends.\" I ALWAYS tell them that the \"Jeeves the refined gentleman.\" front will almost always land you in the friend zone. But they don\'t listen to me. Another thing to, lying, why do people have to lie to make the opposite sex impressed? Not for nothing, but I think women have a built-in polygraph machine in their head, because they can detect when a guy is lying like second nature......FTR, I\'m sure you agree to this. LOL

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OH yeah. But you know how it is - a man chases a woman until she lets him catch her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

1) Eye contact, smile, humor, sarcasm
2) Smile, light contact
3) Teasing (nothing harsh)...can\'t think of much else right now..
5)

DOs
------
Don\'t give off too much information all at once -- chicks like mystery.
Don\'t act like a puss (sappy emotions).
Don\'t say anything negative including stuff about ex girlfrields or friends.
Don\'t talk about politics, religion, or other heavy subjects like the UFO phenomenon or \"the meaning of life\".
Don\'t be too agreesive -- slow it down.
Don\'t brag or act like a tough guy.
(I\'ve made all of the above mistakes at least once and paid the price)

DOs
-----
Listen.
Smile, laugh, bring humor to the conversation.
Not much else, just make sure you listen (I know, it\'s hard sometimes)

-DBS

[**DONOTDELETE**]

DBS:

Another important thing I\'ve learned, and observed...never let them know how much you make until you\'re in a serious relationship. Because if a guy/girl was to say \"I make $1500 a week\" they would probably see dollar signs instead of the person. However, if somebody does make $1500 a week, be normal about it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Jaeger,Re #4, tips for talking to women in person, one thing I would say is learn to be comfortable with silence. Sometimes nervousness induces chatter, and the less she says, the more he talks, the less she listens, the more she tunes out. It\'s ok to be quiet together for a minute and just relax between topics. If she does talk, don\'t interrupt her, especially if you get in a lively discussion. Men have a tendency to try to dominate by talking over you, talking louder than you, not letting you finish your thought, all of which is probably meant to impress but telegraphs \"jerk.\" Relax relax. Be attentive to non-verbal signals that say she\'s tuning out: denying eye contact, picking her cuticles, giving you less and less feedback generally.

[jose]

Eye contact, humor with a cocky funny attitude also teasing her. First meeting is a smile shake her hand, but also don\'t let her see you sweat. What every you do, don\'t look at her breasts if she catches you, your dead in the water. Talking about Ex-girlfriends, anything sexual like \"when was the last time you had sex?\" will turn her off. Don\'t give out too much about yourself let her do most of the talking.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

hey, i like your advice....so youre saying to be aggressive and make the first move...okay, i like that...now, when do you make the move from friends to a kissing relationship? do you do this on the first date, or do you wait till the second one? whats your time table on this and please anymore advice you can give, like asking for date, first phone call etc. i am interested in waht you got to say dude

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If you want her for a lover, don\'t start as friends, start as a lover. I don\'t go with that friends to lovers progression. Someone else wrote here a very good post about if you take too long to make your move, she\'ll write you off and give you LJBF. So I say come on from the beginning like you mean it. Start off the way you intend to finish. But I am very direct and I appreciate directness and maybe that\'s not for everyone. Wish more of the other women would write.

[Track0714]

here is my 2 cents.

these are paradox\'s many guys have a hard time trying to figure out. it\'s very similiar to trying to figure out how much A-none to use. Use the right amount of A-none and you got a horny wife/gf, too much A-none and you are told to go take a shower.

here are paradox\'s some guys cant seem to grasp

girls like to be looked at, girls don\'t like you leering or staring at them.

girls like to touch and be touched, girls don\'t like to be groped, rubbed, felt up.

girls like to hear your voice, girls don\'t want to hear you talk about yourself, such as car, money, politics, religion, sex

girls like getting gifts, girls hate it when you spend money on them

girls like getting phone calls, girls hate phone stalkers

again, just my 2 cents

[proteus]

Hey Jamboot, a lot of good questions and I\'lll answer what I can but also most of the answers to what you asked are answered here http://www.pickupguide.com/layguide .
However, I\'ll give you my take on what works for me. Firstly, you don\'t \"make a move from friends to a kissing relationship\" as you put - don\'t ever let a lady you want to get with put you in friend category or you\'ll more than likely stay there forever - FTRedhead\'s advice on this is absolutely right, but Jose is also absolutely correct that you have to also avoid sexual talk etc. when you first meet her. This is paradoxical to a degree (and explains some of why us guys have such a hard time seducing women ) so the big question is how to let her know you\'re interested in her without being overtly sexual about it. What I do is I make it clear from the moment I meet a lady that I\'m evaluating her - in a sense by your attitude/questions you should give off the sense that you are assessing her. Now I don\'t turn this into a freakin job interview, but with the kind of attitude that Jose mentioned (cocky, funny, eye contact, smile etc.) throw in questions about her, elicit her values and she immediately \"knows\" that I\'m interested in her more than a friend without actually having said or done anything. Through patterning her, feeding back her values you build a rapport \"you like hiking up in the mountains too??? We are sooo alike!!!. Y\'know even though we\'ve only just met I feel we really connect - that is so special when you can meet someone and feel that close to them like you\'ve known them for years don\'t you agree??.\" Touch her hand, her hair etc every so often so that she gets the feeling it\'s natural for you to be like this and so you do stuff like this, and when you have indications of interest from her i.e. she\'s laughing easily, maintains eye contact, does not flinch/resist you touching her arm/hair etc, reciprocates and touches you also etc. move in for the kiss right then - there\'s endless debates about how to get the kiss, but I just lean in and if the moment is right she will not resist. This may seem Machiavellian, but I have rule that unless I really want to get to know a lady (and not just sleep with her/dump her), I will not pattern her, because it is too easy to get her and I feel like with anything you have to be careful or karma will kick you in the ass. You also asked whether to kiss her on the first date, second date - that is a whole other topic - DON\"T date a lady - ask her to hangout with you and when you do meet with her it\'s a get together not a date - don\'t play that conventional first date/second date game - so to answer the question, when you hangout with her pattern her and move in when she has given you the indications of interest - if she seems bored/disinterested try some of the other stuff suggested at the layguide, but if you cannot get her interested in you romantically (at least a kiss) that first time move on, and forget about her - she will not be anymore interested in you if you get with her a second time and you\'re already in potential LJBF land and don\'t know it. So the first time you hangout with her make your moves then - you have to find the style that works for you. Through trial and error and crashing and burning I\'ve found that what I described above works for me. However, if the lady is very sexually aggressive (e.g. the Samantha type from Sex and City as an example) then I don\'t beat around the bush as she would let you know within a minute that she wants you so why play games - just lead her and take charge, make it clear you know what she wants and you want her and take her to your place end of story.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It\'s much simpler than all that to me. If a guy\'s looking me up and down and smiling, he wants me. If I want him, I\'ll do something about it. It doesn\'t matter what we\'re talking about because I\'m not really listening anyway.

It\'s about how you look at her - open, relaxed, approving, let your eyes move around her so you\'re not staring at any one thing but let her realize that you\'re looking at her (evaluating her) and approving, and then say\" I want you to go to dinner with me (or whatever)\" -- don\'t ask her, STATE. You say what you want.

All kinds of conversations take place between two people that only happen with their eyes, and that\'s where the deal is made. It\'s not in the rap.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Seduced - Leon Redbone (Gary Tigerman, (c) 1978 Precedent Music)

I want to be seduced
I want a woman to take me out to dinner for two
Like to see her eyes get moody
Flirtin\' with the thought of what flirtin\' ought to do.

Like to be real cool
Let her think about gettin\' little me in bed
Have a chat about Magna Carta, Puerto Vallarta
Or somethin\' that Gandhi said.
I might demur politely, falter slightly
If she tried to fondle my knee
But I\'m relatively certain I\'d compromise if I know me.

I want to be seduced
I want a woman to talk to me suggestively
Want to hear her say she\'ll be with me tomorrow morning
Drinkin\' hot jasmine tea.
Want her to make me laugh, make a point of touching me when she talks
Leavin\' all the jealous men in the joint
To mumblin\' in their beer and gawk.

I know it only happens when I\'m nappin\'
Noddin\' in a reverie
That I find myself a woman who wouldn\'t mind seducing me.

I know it only happens when I\'m nappin\'
Noddin\' in a reverie
That I find myself a woman who wouldn\'t mind seducing
Startin\' from the moment that we\'ve been introduced.
I\'d like to find a woman who wouldn\'t mind seducing me.

Works in reverse just as well.

[proteus]

I disagree with you on this 100% FTRedhead - maybe from a lady\'s perspective it seems that simple, but if all it took was for a guy to \" look you up and down and smile and ask/state to you that he\'d like to have dinner with you \" I think I\'d feel I\'d woken up in the wrong universe. If I was someone who women were nuts over like Brad Pitt maybe that would work, but for the regular joe schmo, it is never that simple and to get from Point A to Point B is exactly why guys in frustration have come up with the phrase \"chick logic\" (not directed at you but, generally speaking). Now I\'m not describing theory - I\'m describing what has worked for me (learnt from the seduction sites) so that for the most part, if I\'m interested in a lady I can get her even if she is \"not\" initially interested in me - to change my odds from \" getting lucky \" to getting the lady if I want too.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I guess I answered you about getting the first date. When to kiss? WHEN YOU WANT TO. You gonna run this thing or not? \'cause if you won\'t, I will... ;-) do you see what I mean? Do what you feel. For me personally, if something doesn\'t happen on the first date, it won\'t. I\'m a you-snooze-you-lose piece of work, but other women need more time. So you have to play it by ear. You might not get it right - this is an art, not a science, and practice makes perfect. Eventually you\'ll find your groove. The only thing I can tell you about first kiss is don\'t ask her if you can kiss her. Just do it. Do it when you feel it. Re phone calls. If I don\'t get a morning after phone call, I\'m really disappointed. I know that goes against all the games y\'all play about the phone, but I want to know he\'s thinking about me the next day and he had a nice time, and a quick phone call to say Hi, just wanted to say I had a great time last night and was thinking of you. Ok gotta go, see ya! will make me want to do more. For me, by the time you wait three days or even I\'ve heard a week, screw you. I\'ve moved on. So follow up your date with a phone call. You\'ll look good to her friends, too, if that matters to you, because the first thing she\'ll do when she gets off the phone with you is call her best girlfriend(s) all starry eyed and say \"He CALLED!\" and they\'ll be all excited and happy for her. If not, her best girlfriend is gonna be stealing glances at her all day and waiting for her to say something about the guy she went out with, and will finally ask, So, did What\'shisname call you? and she\'ll say no, and her friend will hiss \"A**hole!\" and it will go around that you took her out and then DIDN\'T EVEN *CALL*. :-)

That\'s assuming that she doesn\'t mess up and do something that makes you think twice about a second date yourself, which happens! :-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Proteus:

Ok

[proteus]

PS FTRedhead: It\'s great to get a lady\'s perspective despite the fact that I disagree with you on the earlier point as I already said, but I wish more of the ladies on this board posted like you as it\'s very gutsy I admire that quality - plus it makes things a lot more interesting to get a lady\'s take on all these topics. As far the morning after call I gotta agree with you - that is a must, and if you\'re secure enough in yourself you don\'t need to play bs games of waiting a couple of days to call her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m so glad you see the \"morning after\" call the same way. It\'s just good manners, like you\'re supposed to call your hostess after a party. Otherwise, the girl\'s wondering for days on end, did he like me? Is he not calling because he didn\'t like me? Or maybe he\'s dead? Or ..... I\'m old, so I don\'t have the energy to go through that stuff anymore. lol

[Tom]

See The Biggest phero testing in the World thread

http://www.server2.love-scent.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB5&Number=26075& amp;page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&amp ;fpart=

[**DONOTDELETE**]

wow, thank you so much!! you are a good writer, i appreciate your help and input [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Proteus, you and fulltilt have really educated me...thank you very much adn i will check out that website!! thanks again

[proteus]

No sweat Jamboot and glad to have been of a little help. I still have loads to learn myself but with the help of the seduction sites/stuff I\'ve read on this board too, my \"game\" is so much better, but still constantly trying new strategies/patterns etc to find what works for me and develop my own style.