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  1. #1
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Concerns about Musk Fragrances

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    What we are told is a musk fragrance is highly unlikely to come from real musk. The real deal is from a small deer growing in the mountains between India and China. It has almost been hunted to extinction and is banned in international trade except for France and China. Production was last reported as about 700 lb (320 kg) per year

    What we as Western, non-French consumers do get is synthetic chemicals that smell like musk to various degrees. There are three types of synthetic musks – nitromusks, polycyclic musks, and macrocyclic musks, in rough order of increasing cost and complexity. The first synthetic, a nitromusk was invented in 1911. Common names of products include white musk, Eygptian musk, Arabian musk, etc. They’re all just chemicals.

    The first two types have been discovered to be non-biodegradable and have been found in fish, mother’s milk, and human fat. Some earlier compounds have been withdrawn from commercial use due to neurotoxicity or photosensitivity. Now, just because discernable quantities of synthetic musk fragrance show up in rivers downstream of sewage outfalls and in “natural” baby food is not a reason to get too excited but it is a reason for caution.

    So given the two questions about 1) social and environmental responsibility and 2) consumer quality, I’d really like to know what I getting when I spend my money on a fragrance. All in all, my first choice would be natural musk followed by macrocyclics - the latter being the closest approximation to the natural and are readily biodegradable.

    What I really need is the information to make an informed purchasing decision. I doubt that SPMO uses high grade synthetics but… I don’t know. The problem comes down to the power of information. – the manufacturer has it but we don’t.

  2. #2
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Whitehall,

    Seems like there\'s some synthetic musk in just about everything these days according to the essay posted by drchaos a couple of days ago. Chemical musk content in fragrances may be among the least of our concerns.
    Hell,...We\'re EATING the stuff!!

    http://www.epistola.com/sfowler/scholar/scholar-musk.html

    Oscar [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]


  3. #3
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    That article set me off on my research project. I\'ve posted a number of questions about musk in the past but finally got some good leads from the article - it\'s a good one.

    I agree that there is just too much of this smelly stuff floating around. I\'m not a complete health food nut but I do keep an eye on what I eat and do prefer most of the \"organic\" stuff - here in California there is a large market for it. I will always use unscented products like laundry and dishwashing detergents if available.

    Personally, the higher the quality of a fragrance, the better I feel about it and myself for wearing it. I\'ve discontinued using Jovan Musk 2 aftershave because of it\'s single note musk fragrance - if it\'s that simple a smell it must be a simple chemical.

  4. #4
    Enlightened One
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Or whitehall SOE with 87 different musk times if i remember JVK correctly i thought musk was musk but obviously not.

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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Well, from the names I can conjure up some ideas about what these chemicals are. Obviously the Nitro ones have a nitro group (-NO2) and the poly cyclic ones have a number of rings involved (kinda like the pheros we know and love.) The Macro ones, I dunno. I was thinking of very large molecules, but I shot that idea down. If we can smell them, they have to become airborne. I am not sure at all what the name implies for those ones. But if anyone has a reference, I\'ll go an mess around and see what is up with the articles (I\'m bored, growing bacteria at 7 C, riveting...)

    On a minor note, everything (minus a true vacuum) is made up of chemicals. On the Organic tip (as a Chem geek, to me it means \"containes carbon and hydrogen\"), I agree, if done correctly. Otherwise it is a nightmare. As far as \"natural\" goes, this is rather extreme but oh well, cocaine is also a natural product. Hey, the Botulinum toxin is a protein that is from nature, and 235U was originally a natural product. Point being, nature does have teeth, and sharp ones.

    As far as smells go, the last paper that tried to quantify the oders of a granny smith apple said that they had verified 436 seperate volitiles (by GC analysis.) So, the whole smell thing is, for lack of a better way of putting it, complex. I have to go with the, \"what ever works for you,\" theory, though I am not sure if I am for knocking off small deers (How did I get a Bambi reference stuck in here?) for it.

  6. #6
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    While chemistry has transformed our lives, one would have to admit that chemists can and do get a little carried away at times.

    For example, here\'s the fragrance ingredients offered by International Flavor and Fragrance. Almost all of these are synthetic chemicals so be careful the next time you have a hankering to drink some cologne or apply more than a dab to your skin.

    http://www.iff.com/Ingredients.nsf/WebDSFrag!OpenView

    My basic position is that the aroma complexity of a natural product is a priori more interesting than that of any single chemical and probably more interesting than almost all synthetic blends - just as an apple usually tastes better than pure sucrose. I\'m not a fanatic, just not easy to fool. I would also posit that our pheromone products are just the simpliest replication of Nature\'s pheromone complexity.

    As to bashing Bambi, so long as the population of deers is stable and adequate and useless taking is avoided, I\'m OK with it. I see it like fishing - throw back what you won\'t eat. I would prefer a domesticated herd population to taking in the wild, of course. I\'m also OK with very high prices since that means the hoi polloi won\'t smell as good as this sophisticated alpha male.

  7. #7
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    I\'m with Whitehall, especially on the phero side of things. I think phero mixing and experimentation will become a lot more interesting when science has discovered all of the different pheros (there obviously cant just be 4/5, how would we get an individual phero sinature?) and their links with genomics and proteomics. Imagine a device that could sample a target\'s scent and replicate a batch of a killer phero mix, specific to that target.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Does anyone know anything about this product?

    <a target=\"_blank\" href=http://www.cooperlabs.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&amp;DID=6&amp;User_ID=8543&amp;st=21 20&amp;st2=-74579798&amp;st3=-37413487&amp;Product_ID=28&amp;CATID=6>\"The Original Natural Musk Oil\"</a>

    It\'s marketed by a company called Cabot Labs. They claim that it\'s natural, and yet under ingredients they list only \"fragrance\". Seems a little gimmicky...

    Any thoughts?

    30s

  9. #9
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Sure looks bogus to me. I say, save your money.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Whitehall:

    Thanks for your input. I apologize if I gave you the impression that I was thinking of purchasing it... I was not. This said, if someone had info on the product or company, I thought it might be of interest, (at least to me) one way or another.

    30s

  11. #11
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    In fact, the US is party to an agreement prohibiting the international trade in real musk. This company was in Santa Barbara and the bottle was labeled \"Made in USA.\" Ergo, it is illegitimate one way or the other.

    That said, I would buy some if it was genuine. I will agree that buying real musk oil is morally akin to buying rhinoceros horn or elephant ivory - but I\'d only buy a little bit. Maybe next time I\'m in France.....

  12. #12
    Phero Pharaoh BassMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    The ad said it was \"natural\". It didn\'t say it was \"animal\". The price was _way_ too low to be animal musk. If it\'s not a total lab-based lie, it\'s probably one of the many \"musky\" odors compiled from veggie sources...

  13. #13
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Notes on SPMO

    I\'ve found Super Primal Musk Oil (SPMO) to be a delightful and surprisingly powerful product. I couldn\'t guess the \'nol concentration but it is definitely non-trivial. My SO had a spill in her car last week and since then has been shockingly lovey-dovey ever since. (Not complaining!!!) She did opine that the musk scent impressed her as a bit feminine but no one else has made that comment. The babysitter offered that I smelled nice while wearing a little.

    I\'ve also found that it mixes pretty well with my hair gel - the usual dab of gel and a drop or two of SPMO, mix in the hands then apply to moist hair. Seems to last a while and to not OD on first application.

    Tried this trick this morning before work - Monday\'s we have a staff meeting first thing. Today, everyone was unusually happy and chatty and in a great mood - I\'d like to credit SPMO in the hair but that might be premature and I\'ll have to look for other tests. Also, ran to the supermarket Sunday and seemed to draw a small crowd (OK, two) of people by hanging out at the magazine rack. The check-out girl also was very friendly and even kicked in some change from her own pocket on my bill so I wouldn\'t have to break a twenty.

    The musk fragrance is a bit richer than Jovan Musk2 that I\'ve abandoned and is considerably different in tone and complexity. Also appears to have a much higher \'nol concentration. Still, I can\'t credit SPMO with having the highest quality musk fragrance - its still a synthetic and probably not a macrocyclic. Still, it is definitely pleasant and tolerable.

  14. #14
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Bump (my first)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Concerns about Musk Fragrances

    Just put some on tonight, along with a couple dabs of NPA and Animale after shave balm. Heading out to the Brewpub in about an hour. See what transpires.

  16. #16
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Notes on SPMO

    I\'ve found that several drops of SPMO in a small container of baby oil makes for an enhanced massage oil. The scents of the products don\'t compete, so the SO doesn\'t suspect there is anything added. Of course, if you\'re at the point where you giving a massage in the first place, then we\'re definitely past the question of hit/not hit, but the SPMO certainly enhances the experience.

  17. #17
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Notes on SPMO

    SPMO in baby oil does sound like a nice application.

    I\'ve enhanced my SPMO-in-the-hair routine by adding a few drops of NPA to the SPMO. That way I have a full-spectrum hair goop. I do think that the \'none lasts longer in the hair than the \'nol.

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