question for the guys

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This has little to do with pheremones per se, but:

How long do you usually wait before calling a woman again after a nice first date (the old-fashioned kind, not a sleepover)? I know there are supposed to be \"guy rules\" about not calling for 3 days so you don\'t seem to eager, etc., but these things are mysteries to me... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[CJ01]

Yo,
I´ve no idea, but those `rules´are a tad too macho and just as shit (`scuse the lingo) as the `rule´some women have - `the women should never call or make the first move´ and so on.

But if you went out say on a monday night and haven´t heard ANYTHING by at least wednesday eve, forget him and go out with someone on thursday. ESPECIALLY not if he said he´d call before then.

Does this sound too harsh? I just don´t think one should sit by the phone waiting, guys or women. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
And if you got a guy who lives by so called guidelines or macho habits, he´s a waste of time anyway. ( Just my opinion)

CJ [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Paul canada]

Hello:

First thing I would like to say is WELCOME TO THE 21 CENTURY!!

Anyway this oh must wait 3 days I think is a load of crap.

My co-worker (who is a woman) and I had this talk about a week ago and we compared \"books\". She said in one of her books if a guy called two days after a date and asked her out again that she would have to say she was busy even though she is not, and she may want to see this guy, but her book tells her that agreeing would make her seem despirate.

My advise is throw away all those dating books and go on instinct. If you want to see someone give them a call...and yes guys do like it when a woman makes the first call..
This is my little opinion. I get a kick on how these so called experts can dictate how I should go about getting a date.
Everybody is different and there is no set rules. Just have fun [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Paul

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ahem. I was taking a bit of a survey because I was curious what guys in the real world actually do, not whether dating books in general are useful or whether \"guy rules\" are sensible. (One could debate that all night.)

Men, \'fess up. Do you call right away? Leave it a couple of days?

[CJ01]

I´ve an example of women asking men out:

When I was still at high school (my final year), there was a guy who started working at one of the local shops where we used to go to on breaks. I decided that I liked him, cause he was always friendly and we always talked so then one day I just asked him out and later he told me he´d been wanting to ask me out for ages but didn´t know how etc and he was really relieved that I asked.

I ought to mention that he was several years older than me and the first girl ever to ask him out.

Now when you´re dealing with someone this shy a women just has to show some balls sometimes.

I agree that women have to be careful though too, cause it´s still easy to get labelled.

Paul does your colleague really use those books? [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

CJ [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Paul canada]

HI CJ:

She read about seven or so and they all told her roughly the same thing. No, she doesn\'t use them she goes on her gut feeling if something feels right she will act upon it; if it doesn\'t she will be careful and not do anything hasty. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Paul

[CJ01]

Sounds sensible enough. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Dancer,

As far as rules...I have to give a nod to Paul (nodding in his direction). There are no set in stone rules. I think rules are either made by those who cannot function without them (i.e. Sheep in human form) or by those having to justify their actions (Blame it on the \"Rules\").

I myself will call the day after. Even if I am not interested I will call. It is just something that I feel is just plain courtesy. Even if no sparks or chemistry. Hey ya never know if one of your dates will turn into (God Forbid) a good friend.

Well there is my thoughts on thee issue.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Frankly I do wait. Why? Well it\'s more to do with me than with the woman. For a two fold reason...

1. I always feel that the woman has probably had enough of me for one day (even though she may like me I can be overwhelming) and I wait a day or two before I call. Sometimes they\'ll even call me (which does make me feel kind of good to know she\'s truely interested). But then again I\'m no master at dating and I don\'t do it very much.

2.) I\'m not one of those guys who wait a week either but I\'m not one who will call back ASAP. As much as women like to tell us it\'s okay, they do get the feeling you may be a little desperate if you call too soon. Like the woman you drool over won\'t bother with you but when you stop giving them the attention they come to you. It\'s the same principal. One of my best friends admitted to (when I was trying to date her) that she missed the attention when I started turning my interest to her friend. It\'s the same principal.

I don\'t think it\'s good to seem desperate or overly friendly. One should listen but don\'t be too quick to get into her life or even be too helpful because you\'ll enter the friendship zone quick. Women like to marry helpful dependable men but not date them. They may say otherwise but my experience has been the opposite. (Basically you\'ll get the left overs when she\'s burnt out and ready to settle down).

Men are like this too manytimes. They date the women who they can get into bed quicker but many times don\'t want to marry them and I\'m sure some of you can talk to your closest female buddies and find out this is true. The men they went to bed with quickest were one\'s who were gone quickest. It\'s not set in stone but usually happens this way. So in the end you get a burnt out left over guy. Who wants to settle down and marry. Now he\'ll look for the good women.

Anyway, I don\'t know if any of that makes any sense to anyone but I do wait a few days before I call. I don\'t want to seem desperate or freak her out and if she wants to go out again she\'ll still want to go if I call her on monday instead of sunday after a saturday or saturday nght date. If not, then she wasn\'t that interested.

I don\'t sugguest anyone wait by the phone. I\'d give the same advice to women. Wait a day or two. And another thing I do think women should call if want to speak with a guy and you don\'t think he\'s calling you back quick enough. Call him and find out the scoop. Maybe he\'s not truely as interested as you think. And don\'t move too quick on either side. Take time to feel things out.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: jambat ]

[jose]

I couldn\'t agree with you more Jambat,no offense to Dancer or Cjo1 but in my experience when a woman says one thing she means something else. If I was to get a woman\'s phone number I just met I would wait three or four days just not to look eager or desperate. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] If the first date was successful probably about 5 days or 6. The point is her interest level will be up, the next time you call she will be happy to hear from you. Unless she calls you first which means she\'s definitely interested in seeing you again.
http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'m more inclined to agree with TallCoolOne on this...I always call the following day to at the very least say thank you. It also gives me an opportunity to reaffirm my opinion of the date by getting the reaction after she\'s had a chance to sleep on it. I may not necessarily ask for another date but will probably set the stage for the next one. Something like \"I\'ll call you later in the week and perhaps we can find something to do together on the weekend.\" Not even a question.
As far as the whole \'right time to have sex\' issue goes....well I think that definitely doesn\'t have any hard and fast rules about it (at least not until you\'re actually doing it [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )
My ex-wife and I actually managed to have sex BEFORE our first date!!!
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
and she\'s still a good friend who I\'d go to the end of the earth for!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Understandable, but like I said, I don\'t like them to get too much of me and one setting and I\'m not a huge talker. I mean I\'m into a lot of things women find immature so they judge me before they know me. I\'ve lost dates that way because of being judged so I try do as less talking about myself as possible. When I call it\'s usually to feel her out and see where her head is at and yes like Jose said to highten her interest. (Although I think a week is too long but if it works for you who am I to differ?) [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Women are complicated and expect a lot of guess work from you. The best thing to do is chill and be attentive. If the first date went well hit the number in about two or three days. If the date went so so then maybe wait a little longer so you can regroup. Replay the date in you mind and come back with something slick. If you did dinner and a movie and that sucked take her to Great America or the likes of and that will give you a chance to reel her in with some good conversation if she excepts. Yes, you can pull yourself out of the friendship zone. Especially if she comes by your place. I leave my weights out so women can see them.

Cheap trick? But it works. Why? Let the woman know you\'re working on your phyzique (did I spell that right?) and when she pictures you she\'ll see you a little more atheletic than you are. It also helps if you really are working on your body though.

Yes I\'m a manipulative SOB. If I used my powers for evil I\'d be rich right now with tons of girlfriends. Damn this hero complex.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks, Jambat,

I appreciate the honesty. And you are probably correct (sad to say) that it could pique a girl\'s interest if you wait one or two days to call. You (the man) ideally want to seem interested and attracted but not desperate. Of course, if you wait too long she might be pissed when you do call! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The transparent reason I was asking, of course, is that I had a nice date with a guy Tuesday night and am wondering if he\'ll call again... (It\'s now Thursday--well, technically I guess it\'s Friday.) He seemed into me but you never know with guys... they can vanish like the wind, lol.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dancer:
Thanks, Jambat,

I appreciate the honesty. And you are probably correct (sad to say) that it could pique a girl\'s interest if you wait one or two days to call. You (the man) ideally want to seem interested and attracted but not desperate. Of course, if you wait too long she might be pissed when you do call! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

The transparent reason I was asking, of course, is that I had a nice date with a guy Tuesday night and am wondering if he\'ll call again... (It\'s now Thursday--well, technically I guess it\'s Friday.) He seemed into me but you never know with guys... they can vanish like the wind, lol.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Dancer.

First let me tell you that if this guy you are talking about has \'a life\', there may be a miriad of things that are keeping his head occupied that calling you back is the last thing in the back of his mind. So don\'t take it personal.

And second, try calling him and ask him if he\'s ok. Just this alone shows him that you are a caring person.

Good luck.

Joe

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK guys i have been reading for a month... and this is my first post.. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I can never seem to tell when a girl wants me to call her... so usually i just lose the number... or when i do call her i always seem to end up n the friend zone....

and then i get the girls who just want to sleep with me..... and that drives me crazy..... because they dont want a relationship ... just SEX..----

Well... im never gonna get married anyway... so no big deal.... LOL

ok im a little cynical.. but hey thats me.....


Any Californians out there.......????

Jason

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JaZoN:
OK guys i have been reading for a month... and this is my first post.. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I can never seem to tell when a girl wants me to call her... so usually i just lose the number... or when i do call her i always seem to end up n the friend zone....

and then i get the girls who just want to sleep with me..... and that drives me crazy..... because they dont want a relationship ... just SEX..----

Well... im never gonna get married anyway... so no big deal.... LOL

ok im a little cynical.. but hey thats me.....


Any Californians out there.......????

Jason<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I\'m from California, the energy castrated State of America.

Careful with the \'I\'m never\'s\',they may come back to bite you [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

Here\'s a little experiment for you to do with the women. Do the opposite, and see what results you get. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Joe

[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: stressedoutjoe ]

[a.k.a.]

If I haven’t tried to set up a second date during the first date, it means communication was awkward, passion was low, feelings were ambivalent or something. Before pheromones, I never knew when I would find another woman to date me. I would force myself to wait a day before calling, so as not to appear as desperate as I was.
After pheromones, if she said something like “call me” or “we should do this again”, I’d call on a Wednesday to try and make plans for the weekend. If she said nothing, I’d just go by my feelings. Sometimes I’d call the next day, sometimes I’d wait, sometimes I never called.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Joe....

I dont still dont know what to do.....

Do i actually call them??? do i act like a sex starved maniac??? Do i call and sing into their answering machine??


HELP.. ok im going a little overboard..

What i meant JOe is im never getting Married till i make the bigtime as an actor/singer Broadway/Hollywood (either one).... i dont have time for the distractions... i have major goals and i wanna focus on them....

When im getting 10 mill a movie .. than maybe ill settle down... but i figure thats a number of years off...

Ok now that ive rambled... i gotta go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Have a great DAy ALL,

Jaz
Jazon\'s Home

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi, aka,

I hear what you\'re saying. But, isn\'t communication always somewhat awkward and feelings ambivalent during a first date? I mean, it\'s a first date. You barely know the person, and you don\'t know how much they like you, or what they are after.... I don\'t think I\'ve ever had first date that wasn\'t somewhat awkward. To me, that\'s why you go on a second date (assuming some mutual chemistry, of course) and hope it\'s more comfortable. But then I am a chick, not a guy. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dancer, these things are mysteries to most everyone because unfortunately the \"rules\" are nothing more than head games. If I call the next day she will think I am desperate but if I wait a few days she will think I am not interested. If he calls me the next day he must be desperate. But, if he waits too long then he must not be interested. What I can\'t figure for the life of me is why it has to degenerate to this ... actually I do know why it degenerates, just not why it HAS to.

[a.k.a.]

Your right, dancer. I guess it’s just a question of degrees. Basically, I don’t feel comfortable making a second date, on the spot, unless I get a sense that my date would like to have sex with me and is excited about spending more time together.
Like you say, it’s probably different for guys. I wouldn’t have asked her out on the FIRST date unless I was sure I wanted her and had some intuition that I would like her.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

\"I wouldn’t have asked her out on the FIRST date unless I was sure I wanted her and had some intuition that I would like her.\"

Well, that\'s what I would have thought, too. I mean, why go to all the trouble of getting my number and calling me up to ask me out(twice--I couldn\'t make it the first time) and showing up if you don\'t like someone? And I don\'t think I did anything offensive on the date.

Oh, well. Some things you will just never know.

[CJ01]

Are you saying he still hasn´t called?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ya.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You know, I wonder--and this is just a shot in the dark--if mayb eit had something to do with the fact that I wasn\'t wearing pheros when he and I first met (and he followed me around and asked for my number), but I did wear pheros on the subsequent date. Maybe he liked my NATURAL pheros, and I covered them up! :O

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You know, you might want to call him and see what\'s up. I mean it has been a few days.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just out of curiosity dancer, have you considered calling him? and if so, why haven\'t you?

There may be a very good reason why he hasn\'t called you. There could have been a death in his family or of a friend. He may be sick and in the hospital. He himself might be dead. I sincerely hope that is not the case but it could be.

If he is somebody that you view favorably as a human beign, don\'t you think that it is a good idea for you to call him and ask him if he\'s ok?

Joe

[CJ01]

dancer,
Of course something could have happened to him, maybe he was daydreaming about you and crashed his car... BUT he could also have been out with other women every night since your date.

Well, chances are he just couldn´t be bothered, or there could be a hundred reasons and it doesn´t mean that you did anything `wrong´at all. You never know what goes on in other peoples heads.

Some points to consider:
Did he say that he would call? - If he did but hasn´t, then he´s just not good enough. Well, he´s not a gent in any case.

Go find someone else, maybe bump into him by accidenton your date and see how he reacts.

Him not wanting to be too pushy? - He ran after you to get a date with you!

Maybe he was expecting sex and didn´t get it (I´m guessing here) and is now looking elsewhere in which case you´re better off without him.

Interesting thought on the pheros btw, of course, yeah he obviously liked you without them too but if you both enjoyed yourself, then this is a sign that this little change didn´t affect him in a negativ way.

Don´t blame yourself on this one, look at it this way, you went out, had fun, and you´re ready for the next `phero-conquest´! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Okay I better stop!
CJ [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hi, Jambat,

No, I haven\'t really considered calling him. Mostly because I\'ve found that there\'s usually one reason guys don\'t call you again--for whatever reason, they don\'t want to. It\'s usually not that they are trapped under something heavy!

CJ-- No, he didn\'t say he\'d call again. He did give me a goodnight kiss and said he\'d had fun (I said the same).

I doubt it was that he was after sex \'cause he didn\'t really try anything! (I wouldn\'t have minded if he had, lol.)

It will remain a mystery. Maybe he\'s dating other people and decided to get serious with one of them.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oops, sorry, I was answering stressedoutjoe, not jambat.