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  1. #31
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Are you ladies following the last few posts?? This is starting to sound like that scene in \'Dr. Strangelove\' where a bunch of old guys are deciding who gets to hole up and repopulate the world with attractive young girls!!

    If I\'m following the logic here, fertile young females can\'t correctly decide who to copulate with, so someone needs to decide that for them. And who better than a bunch of phero-wearing guys that aren\'t getting enough anyway (or we wouldn\'t have to resort to pheros!), cause after all, that\'s only fair since we\'ve been screwed over long enough by successful/naturally attractive men. And cause phero-wearers are better decision makers than naturally successful/handsome men. And plus it\'s a good thing for us to choose mates for young females, cause it benefits society as a whole. Very noble.

    Fact is, young females left to their own devices will favor as sex partners good-looking, masculine, healthy, successful young males...what\'s wrong with that choice?? Looks like the exact same biological imperative that\'s driving guys to try and score with young fertile women they don\'t \'deserve\' from a biological standpoint.

    The only reason societies had arranged marriages is because older men began to achieve power as a group as cultures developed, and they exerted that power to skew marriage choices toward their own desires, not the girl\'s. Left to make their own decisions women will favor exactly who biology dictates they should - the strongest/most attractive young alpha male available to her. The whole point of secretly using pheros is to make women think you are more like that ideal man than you really are.

    How about it ladies? Do you think you need help choosing a partner? If you do there\'s apparently plenty of us phero-guys that can help you out, make better choices for you than naturally attractive men would, and also benefit generations to come with our wisdom. Hmmm...I wonder who we will decide for you to mate with after due consideration??

    Sheesh...see why I harp on the idea of the woman\'s knowledge and will as an ethical dividing line?? I draw my ethics pretty broad in the sexual arena, so I\'m not being critical of using a little trickery. But I am poking at using trickery and calling it high-minded philanthropy. Hey, we\'re using some tricks to score where we couldn\'t without them - no need to hide that behind a façade of nobility and concern for society. Embrace your sleaziness, my brothers!

    I no longer think rationalization is beautiful. Now it scares me!

  2. #32
    Phero Pro jose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    To tell you the truth I don\'t feel guilty at all. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] What about the secret society called \"The pretty people\" where they use their looks and manipulation to get away with everything. Pretty Women that get away with getting speeding tickets, guys that get promotions because he\'s more liked and it has nothing to do with his hard work. I guarantee you they don\'t lose sleep at night. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Ethics? If it gets me the woman that is marriage material then so be it. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

  3. #33
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Irish,

    There are deeper reasons behind arranged marriages. I\'m not advocating them, just explaining.

    The problem lies in the differences between sex and procreation. Where people didn\'t know what caused babies, sex partners could be chosen on genetic impulse basis and the burden of child-rearing would be borne by the tribe or hunter-getherer group that the mother belonged too. With a breakdown of tribal life and the movement to agricultural substance and villages, the father\'s efforts were necessary to feed and rear the child to maturity and so sexual choice had to be restricted to males who could and would work to feed the child. Otherwise, the female\'s parents got stuck.

    A present day analogy is \"welfare mothers\" - when Uncle Sam picks up the tab for the babies, the women tend to chose a certain type of men who need not be stable and have earning power nor contribute. Often the grandparents get to raise the kids too. The popular image is that the fathers tend to the \"pimp\" mode, a few men getting a disproportionate number of the women. That certainly is not the universal mode but the moral hazard is there and it\'s common enough in practice and visible enough to raise the ire of conservative taxpayers. It is also a common mode in many other species.

    The marriage structure in Afganistan and many Muslim countries has evolved for a reason - usually scarce resources. It may be part of the reason for a lack of \"modernity\" in those countries and it may be the result of unchanged economic realities but I do not support the US Government imposing our notions of sexual political correctness on other countries. That is the height of cultural imperialism and is being advocated by Senators Hilliary Clinton and Barbara Boxer. It is exactly the sort of American interference that Muslim countries complain about - but I digress.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Here are my thoughts.

    I wear pheros to gain an advantage and I am somewhat deceptive in doing so. However I\'ve been wearing tons of different pheros for about 6 months now, and I\'m not banging chicks left and right. If the pheros were so monstrously effective as to arouse a lot of women and make them out of control, I could understand (at least for myself) feeling *guilty*. The truth is, I wear pheros, and that generally gets me an icebreaker with cute girls, my female friends touch and compliment me more, and I tend to feel better about myself so I really don\'t feel too sinister. I only started wearing pheros when I hit bottom, last year, I lost my girlfriend of 3 1/2 years to my best friend of 12 years. They are together and engaged now, and I was just shocked.

    I wouldn\'t wear pheros if I didn\'t have to. I\'m a graduate student, finishing up a masters degree then going to Law school next fall, so I\'m a pretty bright guy with a good future, but most of the girls I\'ve been interested in over the past 6 months have flocked to cute, 20-year old skaters with backwards baseball caps or douchebag frat boys who only want to fuck \'em and leave \'em. Don\'t get me wrong, there is nothing noble in what I do, but if you\'ve ever been ditched by the girl you love for some troglodyte in Tommy Hilfiger you\'ll understand where I\'m coming from. I\'ve made a career out of being guy 1B, the best friend of the girls while 1A is reaping the rewards. Maybe with pheromones that will change(?) At least that is what I\'m trying to do.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    I wish it wasn´t like that, but to get a lot of girls it seems you have to be an alpha male with some sort of bad-boy-image and/or a lot of a-none. If you are not the natural alpha type (like most of us) you have to work to become like that. Using pheromones is one of the tools to gain more power in social situations.

    With the phero-usage we´re only giving women (and men) what they want, without hurting anybody, and therefore I don´t think it can be that wrong. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Franki [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #36
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    I\'m with you Jamesdino. Doing what we gotta do to stay in the race. No apologies, no guilt, no self-delusion, no BS. You don\'t have to be an ideal soldier to win a battle - promote your advantages, hide or compensate for your weakness, use deception and misdirection wherever possible. The ethics of warfare apply to the sexual arena much more so than the ethics of other social interaction.

    I learned long ago that a different set of \'ethics\' apply to the sexual domain. Makes life easier to believe that - otherwise ethical people are forced to come up with all sorts of twisted rationales for their animal behavior.

  7. #37
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Irish, good point you make, but you are mistaken when when you state that women will choose the best biological partner, women are much different than men in that aspect, they choose based mostly on emotional interaction, rarely do they choose looks as the primary for a partner. Ethics of pheromone use are, in a big way, left up to the user, but if pheromones enhance your emotional interaction (they do) with females, I say no one is hurt, everyone is happy.

    \'Slinger out.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    They just enhance what you have naturally the ethics well i guess we here on the forum probably favour synthetics to aid us. THere are plenty of young guys here who can normally get lots of sex just looking to get more attention and sex over others.

    I guess we could go round and round but in the long run women are still women and some men just wont ever get any. As men we dont deserve sex at all any of us (sorry im taking the feminists movement here *note sacasim right now) we are all dogs (yeah right) and women will always rationalise the best man. Call it chick logic where she has an affair with a good looking man breaks up her marriage to get with the good looking man and to completley loose the looser she has been with for 10 years has kids with is still ok. But she blows the whole thing up for five minutes of pleasure. THen says she was growing tired of all the confinement.

    Me thinks she wants to ride another guys shaft and bullshits to get it and self destruct and later regret but not know why?

    That is the nature of *most* women there are good women out there who are not like that but with modern society are growing less and less freqrent, my prediction is society is soon going to be full of men who dont get any because of the new power woman. And they will just have to obstain or go down the chinesse route.

    In other words with a 80% male to 20% female ratio most men will turn to a HOMOSEXUAL nature because that is the only way they will get thier rocks off etc etc.

    So maybe the makers of phero products might really start pushing the gay market and associated products like Ten.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] You paint quite a picture, Watcher. However, I really don\'t see that Homo-world thing happening. (but if it did I\'d grab a woman and head for the hills [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] )
    While the feministic view is more present than it was earlier this century, most women do not embrace it, and those that do are almost always bitter, angst-ridden bitches. Women just don\'t have the balls to do a man\'s job.
    Also think about this; the flagstaff of the feminist movement is the \"right\" to abortion??? \"Radical feminism is self hate. Symbolized by abortion, it is the ultimate rejection of a woman\'s nature, disguised as freedom and based in the misguided notion that being a woman is detrimental to the fulfillment of personal potential.\" Jim Quinn
    Homosexuality and abortion are both Nihilist creeds, they assure the extinction of those who practice them. You want the truth, baby, there it is! Anyone who tries to convince theirself otherwise, wishes to remain ignorant. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Peace.

    \'Slinger out.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slinger:

    Also think about this; the flagstaff of the feminist movement is the \"right\" to abortion??? \"Radical feminism is self hate. Symbolized by abortion, it is the ultimate rejection of a woman\'s nature, disguised as freedom and based in the misguided notion that being a woman is detrimental to the fulfillment of personal potential.\" Jim Quinn

    Homosexuality and abortion are both Nihilist creeds, they assure the extinction of those who practice them. You want the truth, baby, there it is! Anyone who tries to convince theirself otherwise, wishes to remain ignorant. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Peace.

    \'Slinger out.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello member nr.1000,

    Am I right and are you really embracing this ultra-conservative BS?[/b]
    This Quinn guy is an insult to everyone who can think clearly and is open-minded.

    1. Don´t you think a woman should have the right to decide what´s going to happen with her body?

    2. From what I have learned, a person doesn´t choose to be homosexual. It is already there and pheromones play a great role in this, so you should know better.

    Franki [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]


    [ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Franki ]

  11. #41
    Carpal Tunnel Whitehall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    I\'d say the analysis has some truth to it, whatever label you want to put on it. It is a bit overblown, I will agree.

    This is NOT to say, IMHO, that we should criminalize abortion (again.) I would think that it is not the preferred form of birth control for mothers or for society and that there should be some mild constraints. For example, married women should be required to inform their husbands beforehand. Likewise, anyone supporting a female (parents or guardians) should be so informed. This is just in fairness to other interested parties. I certainly support free, voluntary abortions to women on welfare or government support.

    As to homosexuality, there is a genetic propensity, ergo, it must be reproductively transmitted although I understand that there is a large range of individual volition involved. If it is genetically inherited, then it must offer some survival value, if not for the individual, then for society in general. Still, disdain for homosexuals is near universal in present-day societies, the reason is, I think, that homos threaten the reproductive sucess of straight people\'s offspring. The fear is that they will turn your kid queer. Given the huge investment we make in our children, that is not completely unreasonable to my mind.

    Both these topics are hot-button issues but, I think, subject to more cool-headed analysis.

  12. #42
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Franki, thank you for being courteous in your response, I kind of expected fireworks [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
    #1 Question: Yes, women should be able to decide what to do with their bodies, but a baby\'s (even abortionists now recognize life begins at conception) body is not the woman\'s body, it(he/she) is a separate entity and deserves to live.

    #2 Question: You could also say someone was born with a tendency towards animal sex, but that does not make it right, you have to have serious mental problems (usually someone who is rejected by the opposite sex, or who had a very dominant mother, weak father) to want to stick your penis up someone\'s asshole, and believe me, you can tell it damages their sphincter by the way they walk, it\'s sad, really [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] This applies to \"straight\" (HA!) people who have anal sex as well.
    Believe me, it hurts to think of all the people who do these things to themselves, but I have to call them like I see them, and I can tell you neither one is normal or acceptable.

    \'Slinger out.

    [ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Slinger ]

  13. #43
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    1. If a woman wants to have an abortion then it is her right to do so (so many men go around sticking their penises up their asses only for the thrill of it and then when they fall pregnant its like well im not supporting it and in such cases yes it is a womans right to abort where it is legal.
    She does not have to tell her partner even in marriage as this is a womans right in western modern day society with all the work pressures then it is their call.

    Men will just have to learn to accept this.

    2. Homosexuality is perfectly normal as anyone who wants to have a cock shoved up their anal passage has a right to do so (it is not sick just natural) we should embrace such people as a everyday part of society.

    Some men turn to being gay out of sheer frustration of women being such bitches and not lying down to take it so that such frustrations are taken care of. Also if women were not such bitches then men might be happier.

    Pheromones well i say use them because women are just plain to selective anyway and this stuff should be turned against them to cause weakness therefore more sex for all those involved and a good counter attack for all PMS related instances.

    This stuff is a perfectly ethical thing to do. Period no argument both sexes can use it so why not screw the next guy or girl over who is less attractive and get yourself a root that is the modern mentality anyway.
    And fuck religion right off it is a serial pest and self continuing belief system adapted by those in power to control the masses through ignorance and not being able to question its most basic assumptions.

  14. #44
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Whitehall:
    I don\'t think there need to be any added constraints on abortions. The process itself should be more than sufficient. Have you read about what actually happens? And Post Abortion Syndrome is for real. Trauma, no doubt. I think that is a good deterent for the future.

    Slinger:
    No, in all techncality, the baby is NOT a separate entity from the mother. If it were to be separated from the mother too soon, it will die. Just like an arm, or a leg. Therefore it is a part of the mother. That is all I say about that.

    And the comment about anal sex damaging someone\'s sphincter is not entirely accurate. Granted, it can do damage, but precautions can be taken to ensure the safety of those parties on the receiving end. Anal sex doesn\'t make people walk differently...silly...

    and maybe anal sex is not openly acceptable, but it is as acceptable and normal and healthy as say, masturbation. Funny how I am defending it and have never even experienced it. But I do feel I have to combat inaccuracies as I see them.

    Bright Ideas:

    If any women were to go around believing she can abort her unborn baby without a responsibility to inform her husband, that is just plain selfish, and i think that woman would be in for a rude awakening when she finds herself with Post Abortion Syndrome and divorced...sux to be her...

    [ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dragon ]

  15. #45
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    Default Re: The Ethics of Exogenous Pheromones

    Dragon, thanks for not flaming.
    First of all, are not conjoined twins separate entities from one another? Sure if you separate them, they\'ll die (in most cases), but that does not make it right.

    Second, people who have anal sex definitely damage themselves, as I\'ve seen a local homo couple (in their thirties) shopping for Depends in the grocery store, and every homosexual who I\'ve met walks like they\'re holding something in. Not to mention the hard fact that the majority of AIDS victims are homosexuals, I could get you some stats if you wish, or you could look them up yourself, but I speak the truth.

    \'Slinger out.

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